Does anyone hope that Jon dies permanently?

[The Marquis de Leech]

Either way the story is screwed.

If Jon comes back, then we can file this under Yet Another Fake Death: Martin's most annoying plot device. It destroys the tension in the story if the reader is sitting there thinking "yeah, Character X isn't really dead, so stop pretending he is."

If Jon doesn't come back, that's five books' worth of narrative wasted.

[Mitbert Strangejoy]

Must be a very recent development. Fifty minutes ago you were more pessimistic: "I don't want to see a dues ex machina situation involving either a Mel resurrection or a warg-in-warg-out type scenario. I'd rather the character die than be saved like this".

Was I more pessimistic? Again, please stop putting words in my mouth. If GRRM finds a good way to keep Jon alive, I look forward to reading about it. The scenarios I've heard floated around here haven't been particularly satisfying to me. That's all. Please try to relax, "Ferocious" one.

[sweetsunray]

Oh please, I have never read the Dunk and Egg novellas, but people spoil them here all the time.

If you really think that Jon getting killed in the show is a spoiler, you shouldn't be on this forum.

Read the rules of this "forum" again, Lady Blackmont. No show spoilers in the books forum. If you wish to discuss the show, post it there. Or at the very least have some respect and put the comment in spoiler tags. If you can't respect the rules of the book forum, then you shouldn't be on this forum.

[The Mountain That Flies]

Honestly I only want the character to stay dead for non-story reasons, as I find the hardcore Jon fans to be among the most annoying in the fandom. I realize that's a silly and fairly petty rational, but every time I see another "Jon will sit on the Iron Throne" poster, I just want the kid to stay dead.

Within the context of the story, it would be supremely odd to set up multiple ways the character could return in one form or another, then not use any of them. I suppose you could argue the warging prolouge, Lady Stoneheart, and Mel's visions of Jon are all red herrings, but that's a pretty hefty amount of wasted time then.

[KINGpanther]

What do people think of Jon becoming a 'Coldhands' type Wight? Seriously if the Mel rez and warg rez are just smoke screens then Wight Jon HAS to happen. Yes I do know the Watch and the Wildlings burn their dead but who will have the chance to do this with the shitstorm unfolding at Castle Black?

[Mitbert Strangejoy]

What do people think of Jon becoming a 'Coldhands' type Wight? Seriously if the Mel rez and warg rez are just smoke screens then Wight Jon HAS to happen. Yes I do know the Watch and the Wildlings burn their dead but who will have the chance to do this with the shitstorm unfolding at Castle Black?

I could get behind a massively transformed Coldhands-type Jon.

[sweetsunray]

I could get behind a massively transformed Coldhands-type Jon.

Been thinking along the same lines...a Coldhands like Jon.

[whodafockcares]

Don't really like the idea of Jon being resurrected. But I don't think he will stay dead anyway. If he's going to be resurrected, it needs to be done right. I don't like to see him being the normal Jon after being resurrected. That would be lame.

There must be a price or toll to pay for every resurrection. Otherwise, the next time a character dies, we'll simply think 'Nah, don't worry. Nothing is ever gonna happen to him. He'll be revived again'.

[KINGpanther]

every time I see another "Jon will sit on the Iron Throne" poster, I just want the kid to stay dead.

You seem to think winning the Iron Throne would be a reward at that point. If and its a big if, the IT and 7 Kingdoms survive the Long Night 2 the ruler will have a starving, war ravaged realm in the middle of winter in heavy debt to a foreign power. I fail to see how Jon winning it is a good thing.

[Lady Blackmont]

I had four friends who don't watch the show or read the books ask me about Jon's death, and whether or not it happened in the books. They received this information from some other source, as did I. I watched the episode a week after it aired, and I knew what happened the day after.

If you don't know that Jon died, you have been living under a rock, and I don't concern myself with those people. I will admit that placing it under spoiler tags would have been advisable, but I knew that everyone here already knows about it. And as someone kindly pointed out, what happens in the show isn't even canon to the book world.

I can understand your argument from a rules perspective, and I will do my best to follow them in the future, but I really don't see why people are being so aggressive about this well known fact. It's like being angry about learning Jon was raised as 998th LC of the NW. I find it likely that you're just annoyed because it ruined one of your little pet theories about his survival.

[kimim]

Either way the story is screwed.

If Jon comes back, then we can file this under Yet Another Fake Death: Martin's most annoying plot device. It destroys the tension in the story if the reader is sitting there thinking "yeah, Character X isn't really dead, so stop pretending he is."

If Jon doesn't come back, that's five books' worth of narrative wasted.

This. There's no good way around it.

[Paxter Redwyne]

I have accepted Jon's death. I would like to see what will happen on wall if he stays dead, but grrm willl for sure reanimate him. I just hope it wouldn't look lame.

[chandl34]

Maybe the Others will start massacring Westeros Watchmen-style, with POV characters getting knocked off left and right. I don't see it happening, but it'd be pretty neat. In this case, Jon would stay dead.

[sweetsunray]

I had four friends who don't watch the show or read the books ask me about Jon's death, and whether or not it happened in the books. They received this information from some other source, as did I. I watched the episode a week after it aired, and I knew what happened the day after.

If you don't know that Jon died, you have been living under a rock, and I don't concern myself with those people. I will admit that placing it under spoiler tags would have been advisable, but I knew that everyone here already knows about it. And as someone kindly pointed out, what happens in the show isn't even canon to the book world.

I can understand your argument from a rules perspective, and I will do my best to follow them in the future, but I really don't see why people are being so aggressive about this well known fact. It's like being angry about learning Jon was raised as 998th LC of the NW. I find it likely that you're just annoyed because it ruined one of your little pet theories about his survival.

The OP requested to refrain from referring to the TV show respectfully, so this thread would not get locked. There was only one poster who became aggressive about it, claiming that people shouldn't be on this forum then and completely ignoring what the book forum rules stipulate. Good that you can admit that it would be wiser and more respectful to spoiler tag in the future at the very least. And if you could do it without becoming personal about people requesting to keep to the book forum rules it would actually come off as sincere.

So, to recap: the reason the request is made is in order to prevent a thread from being locked, because the book forum rules state that the TV show is not an element of discussion here. And the book forum rules are not to be discussed either. That would be another reason for a thread to get locked. It's perfectly understandable for people to want to be able to discuss a topic in a thread without it having locked, and no reason to press it any further.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Here's the thing. When D&D wanted to do ASOIAF on HBO......The George asked them one question only.... "Who is Jon Snow's mother?".

Clearly the most important question in the novels to the author.....If Jon dies before the answer to that question even matters then what is the point of the books?

Based on the laws of literature Jon is coming back.

And to everyone using the 'Kit Harrington said JOn is dead' argument.........that is a hoax, a lie. They have to lie or else they are breaking contract with GRRM by giving away the next book. If D&D or Kit say anything other than 'He's dead' then they are giving it away. Also Kit is currently in Belfast, where they are filming season 6, filming starts next week. His hair is still long.

Based on the laws of television Jon is coming back.

[sweetsunray]

Either way the story is screwed.

If Jon comes back, then we can file this under Yet Another Fake Death: Martin's most annoying plot device. It destroys the tension in the story if the reader is sitting there thinking "yeah, Character X isn't really dead, so stop pretending he is."

If Jon doesn't come back, that's five books' worth of narrative wasted.

I agree it's screwed up: both the 'yet another fake death' as well as the 'decent, but imperfect man gets whacked' have been used a few times.

[Ahai Ahoy]

GRRM has said that a character can't be resurrected for without paying a price. The question is does he necessarily have to pay the price (Beric style or Coldhands style) or can that price be paid by someone else (Mel burning someone)?

[Ahai Ahoy]

[double]

[maniacmcgoo]

I hope jon was only gravely wounded so we aren't forced to resort to the "A wizard did it" trope. However, If he does stay dead then it will likely drive away a large portion of the fan base. I for one fine the other "hero" to be insufferable, entitled and incompetent and would have a problem continuing to read a story that should be renamed "A Song of Dany ZOMG ROXXOR BOXOR DRAGUNZ!!!"

Edited to add:

Jon has so much foreshadowing and plot development that it would be difficult to kill him off this late into the story. I honestly don't think more than one or two more POV characters that have appeared in the novels consistently will die before the tale ends and Jon will not be one of those.

[Mitbert Strangejoy]

Here's the thing. When D&D wanted to do ASOIAF on HBO......The George asked them one question only.... "Who is Jon Snow's mother?".

Clearly the most important question in the novels to the author.....If Jon dies before the answer to that question even matters then what is the point of the books?

Based on the laws of literature Jon is coming back.

And to everyone using the 'Kit Harrington said JOn is dead' argument.........that is a hoax, a lie. They have to lie or else they are breaking contract with GRRM by giving away the next book. If D&D or Kit say anything other than 'He's dead' then they are giving it away. Also Kit is currently in Belfast, where they are filming season 6, filming starts next week. His hair is still long.

Based on the laws of television Jon is coming back.

I don't take Kit Harrington's words to mean anything, and it seems very likely that he'll come back.

My hope is that he doesn't. Again, it's not because I don't like the lad. He's one of the more sympathetic characters. But I would find it refreshing to have Jon be both the prophesied Prince that Was Promised and a dead guy -- a truly, permanently dead guy. Now what, Planetos? Your savior is dead. Try to come up with Plan B!