Why did Eddard risk the lives of Lords at the ToJ?

[Fat Mac]

The Glovers aren't lords but they have the strength similar to a lord.It's like how in the Vale the knight of 9 stars has nearly the same amount of men as the lords declarant.Wull is a mountain clan name iirc so he was probably a lord/Clan Chief.The Russell's are lords.And the Cassels are a house sworn directly to the Starks.

I know the houses are Lordly, or the equivalent, I was speaking how those individual members Ned brought to the ToJ might not have been Lords, but rather second sons or heirs or just other family members.

[A Bastard Snow]

Ser Mark Ryswell was not the lord. GRRM confirmed that in a SSM.

I meant his families title is that of a Lord.I didn't mean to say he was the current Lord.

[Forlong the Fat]

Did he know what he was going to encounter? As I recall he expressed surprise in his dream to find the King's Guard at TOJ. He may not have been planning an assault against the likes of Arthur Dayne et al when he set out.

[Northern light]

In a society as Westeros noblemen in a army is expected to be ready to sacrifice their lives in battle. I guess that none of Eddards companions to ToJ complained about the possibility of dying before they reached ToJ. The ones that are complaining is probably their relatives (especially one female....). Bones seems to be important in Westeros society but of the companions that died at ToJ there is only one of them relatives (perhaps two?) that complains about the situation. The others relatives seems to hold Eddard in high regard even after ToJ.

[Lord Lannister]

actually, there is CONSIDERABLE more evidence that he "trusted" and respected the 3KG over any of his companions, other than Reed.

So it wasn't 7v3... it was 5v5?! And I guess Howland put his frog spear into Dayne's back after it was all done thus "saving" Ned. :P

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

They probably volunteered to go. Ned was their Liege Lord and this was their way of showing support for the Starks, both past and present. I am sure they wanted to return Lord Rickard's daughter as well.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

The venture was very personal. Hence not some random soldiers, but friends. And hey, when you're a highborn lordling, your friends will most likely be highborn lordlings as well.

I don't believe Ned commanded a single one of them to accompany him, either. I imagine all of them were volunteers. And at least Ethan, Brandon's squire, and Howland, with personal debt to House Stark and specifically to Lyanna, most likely of the "I'm coming with you, just try to fucking stop me" variety.

And hey, nobles are supposed to risk their life on occasion, lords, princes, even kings, if they're able. Frankly, asking "why take a knight somewhere he could actually get hurt" sounds a little silly.

[Damon_Tor]

i do not think someone who made comments about your new wife's breasts on your wedding day is someone you would become BFFs with...

My best man joked about my wife's breasts at our wedding, during his best-man speech in front of everyone no less. Why is this acceptable? Because, culturally, we put aside certain norms in certain contexts; in our culture, the best man is allowed to make good-natured bawdy jokes about the bride and groom.

We actually only know of Willam Dustin and Howland Reed being lords. We have no idea if Ethan Glover, Theo Wull, Martyn Cassel or Mark Ryswell were.

IIRC, Theo Wull was referred to as "The Wull" which means he was the head of the household.

[gregg22]

They probably volunteered to go. Ned was their Liege Lord and this was their way of showing support for the Starks, both past and present. I am sure they wanted to return Lord Rickard's daughter as well.

Exactly. I'd want to go if I was them. Besides who would have thought with Aerys and Rhaeger dead and the Targs deposed that there would be any kind of fight? I'm sure in that moment they are realized an heir might be at stake

[oursisthefury69]

But what happens after his commanders are dead? He risked fighting future wars without these friends and commanders...

He could have stormed the Tower with more men, Kingsguard don't tend to surrender but put 3 against 20 you're bound to surrender, it's hopless for them, no matter how good they are they can't take 20 decent fighters. Lyannas life could have been spared, hers for theirs with no bloodshed.

1. What future wars? Cuz Ned Stark is clearly a guy to plan on future theoretical wars.

2. Again obviously if you discount the only opposing and actual reasoning then your just gona keep saying "well why not just toss x amount of randos at them instead" He trusted these men, it was the company he was with.

if there is evidence proving he "trusted" anyone other than Reed, please post.

i do not think someone who made comments about your new wife's breasts on your wedding day is someone you would become BFFs with...

ya whatever the f this means.

1, Evidence? There's about as much that he "trusted" Reed as everybody else; As he certainly never just says to himself " I Ned Stark, trusted X individual," and since your asking for "evidence" implies such a concrete type of statement and not just inferences based on text and how he would trust them all, I'd love to see yours on Reed.

2. Because "BFFs" has anything to do with anything. And your clearly removing yourself from the overall context of the culture to place signifigance on whatver that even is

[SevasTra82]

Still though. He was taking an awful risk by having them there. What if most of them survived or even 2-3 others than Howland Reed? Could he trust all of them to keep the secret of R+ L= J?

Keep in mind, though....it as unknown to Ned that Lyanna was not only pregnant, but giving birth as well. I'm sure if Ned knew this ahead of time he may have brought more people, or maybe even not as many. Jon was only made a secret due to Lyanna's dying wish, after all.

How far apart was the Battle of the Trident and the TOJ incident? I honestly can't remember, but is there a chance that Roberts Rebellion was all but wrapped-up by the time the TOJ incident happened? That would explain why his best commanders where with him.

[BlackFyre > BlackFire]

If this is discussed somewhere then please direct me there...but I always wondered how Ned knew where to go. Was it common knowledge that Lyanna was being held at the ToJ, because if so then it would be pretty easy to piece together that the KG were guarding her and that's where Ned killed Dayne. If it wasn't known then how did he find out? Again, my impression was that Ned didn't expect the KG to be there so what or who was he expecting to find? IF he just thought he would go down to the tower and pick up his sister then maybe that's why he just had whoever was with him or whoever volunteered go with him.

any thought's on how he knew to go to the ToJ?

I have to agree that it's pretty convenient that only Reed and Ned survived. If R+L=J is true then Ned would have had a MUCH harder time keeping that promise with 5 other "witnesses." Methinks perhaps too convenient for everyone else to have died.

[melx]

Ned killed so many people up to that point(many women & children in RLs,and was main part of war machine that at the end killed Elia and her children) so its safe to say that he does not value human life unless it's Stark's life

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Ned killed so many people up to that point(many women & children in RLs,and was main part of war machine that at the end killed Elia and her children) so its safe to say that he does not value human life unless it's Stark's life

it is not safe to say.

Show me one instance Ned killing someone with out just cause or provocation.

[Eddy of the Godswood]

I doubt he could trust 10-20 extra soldiers to keep any kind of secret, especially one Robert would want to know.

I think Ned was smart enough to figure out Lyanna loved Rhaegar. And after a year and a half with him there's bound to be a chance of a child. This was only reassured in his mind when nearly half the Kingsguard were mysteriously absent from any of the battles of Robert's Rebellion.

That's why he chose men who were not only known as honourable, but additionally his trusted friends.

[A Bastard Snow]

I doubt he could trust 10-20 extra soldiers to keep any kind of secret, especially one Robert would want to know.

I think Ned was smart enough to figure out Lyanna loved Rhaegar. And after a year and a half with him there's bound to be a chance of a child. This was only reassured in his mind when nearly half the Kingsguard were mysteriously absent from any of the battles of Robert's Rebellion.

That's why he chose men who were not only known as honourable, but additionally his trusted friends.

Yea I mean if Ned Stark names you a friend odds are your a pretty trustworthy person.

[Eddy of the Godswood]

Yea I mean if Ned Stark names you a friend odds are your a pretty trustworthy person.

You make a good point, but you must remember he never trusted anyone with Jon's most likely true identity. Not his wife, not his family, not his best friend and king (albeit Robert would have killed Jon), he never even told Jon Arryn, the child's namesake and the man who was a father to him.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

You make a good point, but you must remember he never trusted anyone with Jon's most likely true identity. Not his wife, not his family, not his best friend and king (albeit Robert would have killed Jon), he never even told Jon Arryn, the child's namesake and the man who was a father to him.

I think he kept Lyanna's promise because he could. It probably would have been a different story had a lot more men survived the battle.

[Poppa Chase]

Ned and his buds were on their way to Dorne to get at some dornish spicy women. They were all excited and shit until they happened upon a tower in the desert. They pull up and say, "yo we is some hard homies Rollin down into this hood to beat up those Sandy love boxes we've heard stories about. I'm a mofo'n boss now son, straight up Lord Paramount in this hoe. My crew be thirsty yo."

From the window of the tower. "We've no drink for rebel scum."

Ned: "out of all of westeros I stumble upon the biggest killjoy since JonCon ran off to the free cities. Man you done called me out in front of my people, get down here and face my gat b."

From another window: "Ned you sound stupid."

Ned: bitches be hatin

[A Bastard Snow]

You make a good point, but you must remember he never trusted anyone with Jon's most likely true identity. Not his wife, not his family, not his best friend and king (albeit Robert would have killed Jon), he never even told Jon Arryn, the child's namesake and the man who was a father to him.

He trusted Howland.Also it's not about trust.Why tell someone the truth unless you are going to do something about it.

Was Ned going to sit Jon on the Throne?Nope therefore people knowing about him does nothing but put his life in great peril