Lord Ravenstark Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Again, no dragonrider can fight a warg. Even one attempt to skinchage into the rider him/herself would be enough to knock them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dyanna Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Just a thought re: the trees have eyes again. Could there be some lore or old tale that we have yet to be exposed to that uses this fact as a harbinger of things to come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reposado Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Again, no dragonrider can fight a warg. Even one attempt to skinchage into the rider him/herself would be enough to knock them down. Again, no dragonrider can fight a warg. Even one attempt to skinchage into the rider him/herself would be enough to knock them down. but how many skinchangers are powerful enough to warg a human? i'm guessing not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Just a thought re: the trees have eyes again. Could there be some lore or old tale that we have yet to be exposed to that uses this fact as a harbinger of things to come? There could. But the trees never lost their eyes. By the way, could it be "the dark eye" which will fall over the prince (Bran?)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 but how many skinchangers are powerful enough to warg a human? i'm guessing not many. You don't need to sucessfully skinchange a human, just attempt. We have seen that even an attempt is enough to drive them crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dyanna Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 There could. But the trees never lost their eyes. By the way, could it be "the dark eye" which will fall over the prince (Bran?)? They have not lost their eyes, that we know about, but also, there have not been any recent exchanges that would make anyone aware of their ongoing existence. Just starting to sound like a check off list for something. Trees have eyes, check. White Walkers on the shore, check. Hoards of frozen wights attacking... Sorry, not following the dark eye reference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 They have not lost their eyes, that we know about, but also, there have not been any recent exchanges that would make anyone aware of their ongoing existence. Just starting to sound like a check off list for something. Trees have eyes, check. White Walkers on the shore, check. Hoards of frozen wights attacking... Sorry, not following the dark eye reference... Benerro talks about an old prophecy where the dark eye has fallen over Daenerys. We don't know which prophecy it is, only that it has to do with AAR, as Benerro was saying Daenerys is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 wait, why do we know this? it's clearly a possibility but i must have missed something Posted 16 March 2015 - 04:47 PM In an interruption to our advertised program I'm watching a feature on Sky Atlantic, providing a catch up on the HBO series thus far and featuring interviews with [among others] GRRM, who has just confirmed that when Sam pinked Ser Puddles "he broke the spell holding him together." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Just a thought re: the trees have eyes again. Could there be some lore or old tale that we have yet to be exposed to that uses this fact as a harbinger of things to come? The trees have and have always had eyes. Therefore Qhorin must mean that the eyes are seeing or watching. And no I don't know how he knows but it seemed to be a significant warning and one he clearly expected Mormont to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Posted 16 March 2015 - 04:47 PM In an interruption to our advertised program I'm watching a feature on Sky Atlantic, providing a catch up on the HBO series thus far and featuring interviews with [among others] GRRM, who has just confirmed that when Sam pinked Ser Puddles "he broke the spell holding him together." They could still be a race, even if artificial one. If they are capable of thinking and able to self replicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew. Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 ...so we're still left with the question of who has created them and why and right now the three fingered tree-huggers are the only suspects. No. Even with a baseline assumption that the white walkers are constructs of magic, it's speculative to say that the CotF are suspects for raising them, even more speculative to say they're the best suspects, and completely untenable to declare them the only suspects. At the very least, men are good suspects. Men can skinchange, men can use the greensight, men can raise constructs of shadow to attack their enemies, men can resurrect the dead, men can use glamours, men can drink Shade of the Evening and become Undying. In short, men can do a lot with magic. Furthermore, men were in Westeros when the Others first appeared, and they're certainly in Westeros now, as they reappear. Men are suspects for precisely the same speculative reason that the CotF should be suspects--they were in the right place at the right time, and we know they utilize magic. Then, of course, there's the "stranger" options. We have tales of the Others doing things we haven't yet seen in modern Westeros--siring terrible half-human children (white walkers?), riding ice spiders, drinking blood...and, perhaps, even having females in their ranks, depending on the nature of the Night's Queen. All of which could mean that the Others, the True Others, or whatever you wish to call them, have not yet revealed themselves. They could still be a race, even if artificial one. If they are capable of thinking and able to self replicate. And there's this, as well. The white walkers could, in essence, be something of a magical parasite race; a species composed of magic, and requiring offerings to perpetuate themselves, as they do not reproduce by typical biological means. One might say this is incompatible with GRRM's statement that he doesn't know if they have a culture (which, mind you, is not the same as saying "NO, they don't have a culture"), but it may be that he's not sure whether or not the WWs have a culture in much the same way that he might not be sure whether or not dragons have a culture. It may be that, as a different form of life, the motives of the WW are too inhuman and incomprehensible for "culture" as we would define it to be applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Dyanna Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The trees have and have always had eyes. Therefore Qhorin must mean that the eyes are seeing or watching. And no I don't know how he knows but it seemed to be a significant warning and one he clearly expected Mormont to understand. I agree. But not only are they watching now, but could even be seen as interacting. As I said earlier, when you take this in context with Mormont's earlier statement of the WW being seen on the shore, it's starting to sound like some kind of check-off list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 One might say this is incompatible with GRRM's statement that he doesn't know if they have a culture (which, mind you, is not the same as saying "NO, they don't have a culture"), but it may be that he's not sure whether or not the WWs have a culture in much the same way that he might not be sure whether or not dragons have a culture. It may be that, as a different form of life, the motives of the WW are too inhuman and incomprehensible for "culture" as we would define it to be applicable. I'll agree with this. I've always taken that as a brush-off answer. He didn't want to talk mince about a set of individuals [?] as if they were a race with a language and customs like say the Dothraki, simply because it wasn't relevant. Remember that the most we've ever seen in one place is six, even if we add Ser Puddles, who may or may not have been one of the six, and assume that those seen near Eastwatch were different ones as well, then a bare dozen individuals hardly constitute a race. Sure there may be more out there, but how many? Even in the stories of the Long Night [such as they are] give us no more than a handful of individuals at any one time leading armies not of other white walkers but wights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 I agree. But not only are they watching now, but could even be seen as interacting. As I said earlier, when you take this in context with Mormont's earlier statement of the WW being seen on the shore, it's starting to sound like some kind of check-off list. Up to a point yes, but given the way Catelyn looks sideways, I'd take the trees business not just as one more item on the list but the cherry on the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reposado Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 You don't need to sucessfully skinchange a human, just attempt. We have seen that even an attempt is enough to drive them crazy. but how many can even make a noticeable attempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reposado Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Posted 16 March 2015 - 04:47 PM In an interruption to our advertised program I'm watching a feature on Sky Atlantic, providing a catch up on the HBO series thus far and featuring interviews with [among others] GRRM, who has just confirmed that when Sam pinked Ser Puddles "he broke the spell holding him together." uh yeah. that is a game-changer. wasn't aware of that quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 but how many can even make a noticeable attempt Bran, Bloodraven, probably the skinchanging-aware Starks. I think Varamyr and Orell-level skinchangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summer Is Coming! Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 As you point, whatever the situation may once have been long long ago there's precious little evidence that they or anybody else regards the children and the watch as allies. But there's another point to consider. The walkers are not a race who have been lurking up there in the cold for 8,000 or rather 6,000-odd years buding their time. We now know that they are magical constructs created for a present purpose just as Mel's shadow babies are created, so we're still left with the question of who has created them and why and right now the three fingered tree-huggers are the only suspects. How does the idea that the walkers are magical constructs relate to the legend of the Night's King giving his seed to the blue-eyed woman? Is this another way to differentiate walkers from the Others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 How does the idea that the walkers are magical constructs relate to the legend of the Night's King giving his seed to the blue-eyed woman? Is this another way to differentiate walkers from the Others? Well, the story make it clear you can, in fact, give your side to magical contructs. Shadowbabies all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 How does the idea that the walkers are magical constructs relate to the legend of the Night's King giving his seed to the blue-eyed woman? Is this another way to differentiate walkers from the Others? There's no certainty at all as to who [or what] she was. The World Book does suggest that the "corpse queen" nickname was a reference to a connection to the Barrow Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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