NBA Offseason 2015: The DeAndre Jordan's Feelings, nothing more than feelings Edition

[Maithanet]

 

And it also sounds like HBO wants to do its own version of the '30 for 30' documentaries, which is probably the best, and certainly most lasting, thing Simmons was involved with over at ESPN. Also, to bring it back to the NBA, I certainly wouldn't say no to an NBA version of Hard Knocks either, especially if instead of the preseason it covered free agency talks.

 

 

Instead of following one team, they could follow just one free agent.  Hard Knocks - DeAndre Jordan would have taken sports journalism to a whole new level. 

[Jaime L]

 

Here's the line from the press release about what he'll be doing besides the talk show:

 

"Simmons will also have a production deal to produce content and assets for the network and its digital platforms, delivering video podcasts and features. In addition, Simmons will be consulting with HBO Sports, working closely with HBO Sports president Ken Hershman on non-boxing-related programming, including the development of shows and documentary films for the network."

 

So it sounds like all the old BS Report stuff will be back, at least with the non-ESPN personalities. I don't think anyone like Cousin Sal, House, or Haralabos Voulgaris have done anything with Grantland since Simmons left, and probably none of them have any sort of contract with ESPN.

 

And it also sounds like HBO wants to do its own version of the '30 for 30' documentaries, which is probably the best, and certainly most lasting, thing Simmons was involved with over at ESPN. Also, to bring it back to the NBA, I certainly wouldn't say no to an NBA version of Hard Knocks either, especially if instead of the preseason it covered free agency talks.

 

So he'll certainly be busy, but yeah, I hope he keeps writing at least a bit too.

 

 

 

Apparently Bill Maher has a blog on HBO's website, so there's at least precedent for them supporting written content. Even if he doesn't get a whole website again, he could also write stuff for the main site; so long as HBO properly promoted it.

 

The two biggest products of Simmons I consumed was Grantland and the BS Report, so I hope he integrates some version of both into what he does with HBO. So yeah good news on podcasts. He was sorely missed for the NBA playoffs this year. Stupid ESPN. I mean 30 for 30 was bringing HBO quality documentaries to ESPN so it's a natural fit for him to do the same there. But he made his name as a writer and even more impressively as of late, assembling an incredible assemblage of writing talent (and Bill Barnwell), so for godsakes please do not give that up solely for TV appearances or video podcasts. I can take or leave Simmons as a screen presence, but it's what he does on the internet that makes him great.

 

I would also have a small quibble with the notion 30 for 30 being the greatest thing he's done. In my view, that's Grantland. There's a reason you see a diverse range of people in and out of the world of sports from Jason Whitlock to Nate Silver to Lena Dunham have/or are trying to emulate it. But probably the most underrated aspect of Simmons is ability to find and manage talent both in what he's done with 30 for 30 and Grantland. And if you've been following the disaster that has been Jason Whitlock trying to create Black Grantland and getting himself fired, think we take for granted (pun not intended) the kind of skills necessary to pull it off. 

 

And my concern now is that without Simmons, ESPN stops investing in Grantland and ends up gutting it. Hopefully, if so, Simmons rebuilds it...though it comes down to my core question about the whole deal: what is HBO's online presence? All I know is HBOGO and that's just a cable channel in a different form.

[Fez]

I would also have a small quibble with the notion 30 for 30 being the greatest thing he's done. In my view, that's Grantland. There's a reason you see a diverse range of people in and out of the world of sports from Jason Whitlock to Nate Silver to Lena Dunham have/or are trying to emulate it. But probably the most underrated aspect of Simmons is ability to find and manage talent both in what he's done with 30 for 30 and Grantland. And if you've been following the disaster that has been Jason Whitlock trying to create Black Grantland and getting himself fired, think we take for granted (pun not intended) the kind of skills necessary to pull it off. 

 

And my concern now is that without Simmons, ESPN stops investing in Grantland and ends up gutting it. Hopefully, if so, Simmons rebuilds it...though it comes down to my core question about the whole deal: what is HBO's online presence? All I know is HBOGO and that's just a cable channel in a different form.

 

Grantland is certainly very impressive and I agree on his ability to find and nurture young talent. However, he's not the only person to create a website like that, arguably Erza Klein with Vox has been even more successful. Also, its never been clear if Grantland is sustainable on its own or if it only exists because ESPN is willing to lose money on it for the prestige; there really aren't many ads over there. 

 

On the other hand, no one's really succeeded at something like 30 for 30. There's plenty of good to great sports documentaries of course, but to create a system that so seamlessly churns out so many of them? That's pretty unique; even moreso for its ability to support people who aren't documentarians, or even directors, to produce documentaries (who else would/could get Gillian Jacobs to create a documentary?). 

 

I don't mean to teardown Grantland, I think its a great site usually. I just think 30 for 30 is more impressive and I suspect is more what HBO is interested in than a website, since yeah I don't think they have much web presence. They've started to try with Game of Thrones at least, having the online viewers guide, the 'making of' blog posts, etc. but I doubt that really gets that much traffic.

[eyenon15]

HBO sports documentaries are already just as good or maybe better than 30 for 30s IMO
Different styles though HBOs tend to be more sentimental and nostalgic where 30 for 30s will go more into controversy

[DanteGabriel]

However, he's not the only person to create a website like that, arguably Erza Klein with Vox has been even more successful. 

 

I'm curious what criteria you're using to judge that. Profitability? Cultural notice? In my own mind, Simmons kind of forged a path that guys like Klein and Nate Silver have been able to follow. Not sure Vox exists without Grantland.

 

I am probably biased because I refresh Grantland all day, even without Simmons writing any more, but I have to give them credit just because I remember how awful it was when ESPN and SI tried to do this "sports and pop culture" fusion thing in the past. ESPN's Page 2 didn't really go anywhere, and to me was only notable for the Ralph Wiley columns (the Hunter S. Thompson columns just made me sad). SI's brief effort mostly consisted of breathless reports of athletes and entertainers hooking up, and was really embarrassing. I didn't think Grantland would last very long when it first got going, but the content was (by and large) so good, and got me to read about stuff I never thought I'd care about.

 

I read those Deadspin articles that Jaime referenced, about Whitlock trying to make a "black Grantland" -- and it really drove home how successful Simmons has been with a venture that had a thousand chances to fail.

[Fez]

 

I'm curious what criteria you're using to judge that. Profitability? Cultural notice? In my own mind, Simmons kind of forged a path that guys like Klein and Nate Silver have been able to follow. Not sure Vox exists without Grantland.

 

Web traffic as measure of cultural impact. Grantland doesn't regularly release its figures but last August it was at 4.8 million unique hits per month, Vox currently gets over 14 million unique hits per month (and was at 11.7 million last September).

[sperry]

The funny thing about Simmons idea for Grantland is how simple it is.  It turns out there are actually intelligent people in the coveted 18-35 demographic, who are interested in consuming digital media, but aren't interested in the absolute shit catering to the lowest common denominator.  It's like if in the golden age of print media, there was nothing like the New Yorker, and everything was People Magazine instead.

[DanteGabriel]

 

Web traffic as measure of cultural impact. Grantland doesn't regularly release its figures but last August it was at 4.8 million unique hits per month, Vox currently gets over 14 million unique hits per month (and was at 11.7 million last September).

 

Oh, well, that's a pretty good way to judge it. ;)

 

I'm a little surprised Grantland's numbers were that low.

[James Arryn]

I wish Simmons still did playoff games. His crazy eyes made it seem like he could go off at any moment. He really looked like a nutter.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I wish Simmons still did playoff games. His crazy eyes made it seem like he could go off at any moment. He really looked like a nutter.

 

 His recounting of the Game 7 between the Spurs and the Clips in this year's playoffs was pretty damn good... 

 

 

  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-tim-duncan-question/

[Jaime L]

 

I'm curious what criteria you're using to judge that. Profitability? Cultural notice? In my own mind, Simmons kind of forged a path that guys like Klein and Nate Silver have been able to follow. Not sure Vox exists without Grantland.

 

I am probably biased because I refresh Grantland all day, even without Simmons writing any more, but I have to give them credit just because I remember how awful it was when ESPN and SI tried to do this "sports and pop culture" fusion thing in the past. ESPN's Page 2 didn't really go anywhere, and to me was only notable for the Ralph Wiley columns (the Hunter S. Thompson columns just made me sad). SI's brief effort mostly consisted of breathless reports of athletes and entertainers hooking up, and was really embarrassing. I didn't think Grantland would last very long when it first got going, but the content was (by and large) so good, and got me to read about stuff I never thought I'd care about.

 

I read those Deadspin articles that Jaime referenced, about Whitlock trying to make a "black Grantland" -- and it really drove home how successful Simmons has been with a venture that had a thousand chances to fail.

 

Yeah, I'm biased as well. Grantland's the only reason I still go to ESPN.com. I don't even use their gametrackers because they suck. 

 

But maybe John Skipper is onto something by not investing in Grantland because it kills ESPN's other offerings. After Grantland's deep dive into each sport, I no longer have patience for the lesser, facile analyses elsewhere on the site. Feel like Zack Lowe and Kirk Goldsberry have deepened my enjoyment of the NBA like Chris Brown and Jonathan Abrams have for the NFL. Hell, feel the same to a lesser extent in terms of what Wesley Morris has done for movies and Andy Greenwald for TV, honestly. You get that taste for filet mignon, you can't go back to hamburger helper. Or in the case of Skip Bayless and Stephen A., rancid meat left out in the sun for 7 hours. 

 

And I get that with cable dying, ESPN wants to invest its money in live sports as opposed to personalities (like Simmons, Olbermann, Cowherd...whoever else they haven't renewed) as live sports is the only reason a lot of people haven't cut the cord, myself included. The new NBA contract is crazy expensive, NFL gets more expensive every year, baseball too. But if ESPN isn't going to be the leader in providing content to go along with the sports themselves and as long Fox Sports remains exclusively lowest common denominator then I hope someone else picks up the mantle. Maybe this is a signal HBO will. 

[eyenon15]

Hey Skip and Stephen A are pretty entertaining if you look at it like a comedy duo. It's like watching 2 bums talk about particle physics, hilarious

[James Arryn]

His recounting of the Game 7 between the Spurs and the Clips in this year's playoffs was pretty damn good... 
 
 
  http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-tim-duncan-question/

Oh, yeah, thanks for the link. Awesome. His best stuff is still draft day with Dad, but that was great I meantt more being part of the live game crew...he looks like he's about to go clock tower, and his colleagues think likewise.

[Relic]

he looks like he's about to go clock tower, and his colleagues think likewise.

 

 

haha, what? I never thought that, at all. He just seemed happily excited. Funny how we perceive such things so differently. 

 

Bill Simmons needs a column, a new team, and new website. Anything else is unacceptable. He's got the money and the name to  start over, and I hope some of his people follow him to his new ventures. I love that Jalen and Jacoby have a huge Simmons face in the background of their video podcasts. 

[James Arryn]

haha, what? I never thought that, at all. He just seemed happily excited. Funny how we perceive such things so differently. 
 
Bill Simmons needs a column, a new team, and new website. Anything else is unacceptable. He's got the money and the name to  start over, and I hope some of his people follow him to his new ventures. I love that Jalen and Jacoby have a huge Simmons face in the background of their video podcasts.

Yeah, happily cra cra excited. Love his work though.

Did you guys see the new Lakers interview, Lou and Hibbert? When asked if Kibe had reached out to them, they literally went dead silent. Dead air. Now there's a team going places.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Simmons best stuff is his Basketball Bible! If you haven't read it, then your just missing out. Some of the stories are just fantastic.

I love his articles and his podcasts are the best I've ever listened to. He has the internet age figured out and has the personalities with him to keep it interesting. Funny, I was always under the assumption that Grantland was his. Until, you know, ESPN axed him and ummmm he wasn't on Grantland anymore.

One question. Why did ESPN fire him? I know his ego was getting a little big and had a tendency to say things you shouldn't say on live broadcasts. But, what was the real reason? Has one been given?

[Fez]

One question. Why did ESPN fire him? I know his ego was getting a little big and had a tendency to say things you shouldn't say on live broadcasts. But, what was the real reason? Has one been given?

 

Maybe the NFL was putting pressure on ESPN after his comments about Goodell, but I think it was more that his relationship with John Skipper had gotten too sour. The rumor for a while had been that a lot of ESPN folks didn't like Simmons, thinking his ego was too big and that he wasn't toeing company lines enough, but because he was such close friends with Skipper, the CEO, nothing ever really happened. But once that went bad, for whatever, he lost his protection.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

 
Maybe the NFL was putting pressure on ESPN after his comments about Goodell, but I think it was more that his relationship with John Skipper had gotten too sour. The rumor for a while had been that a lot of ESPN folks didn't like Simmons, thinking his ego was too big and that he wasn't toeing company lines enough, but because he was such close friends with Skipper, the CEO, nothing ever really happened. But once that went bad, for whatever, he lost his protection.

Yea, I seen a few times during broadcasts where Simmons indeed went where he shouldn't have. The Goodell comments, didn't he even mention something about Delonte West during a Finals broadcast? There was a few times that I felt he shouldn't have said what he did. But, that's also what I love about him. He had a tendency to touch topics others wouldn't, and I find that admirable in a journalist.

[Relic]

Yea, I seen a few times during broadcasts where Simmons indeed went where he shouldn't have. The Goodell comments, didn't he even mention something about Delonte West during a Finals broadcast? There was a few times that I felt he shouldn't have said what he did. But, that's also what I love about him. He had a tendency to touch topics others wouldn't, and I find that admirable in a journalist.

 

A lot of it has to do with what Jaime said above. the NFL stuff is also a part of it. Simmons also didn't toe the company line, and was a loose cannon. ESPN doesn't like that, they are EXTREMELY strict when it comes to hw they deal with employees. My ex GF worked for ESPN while we were together, i even lived with her in Bristol for six months, a street away from ESPN headquarters, and let me tell you...the people running that place area bunch of fuckwads.   

[eyenon15]

ESPN loves shills