Which century in our Middle Ages would ASOIAF be set in?

[falcotron]

The Lord's Right existed, at least in Spain.
 
The supposed right was abolished by Ferdinand II of Aragón in Article 9 the "Sentencia Arbitral de Guadalupe" of 1486

Just because there's a law abolishing it doesn't mean it actually existed. When Napoleon reestablished monarchy, he abolished the droit de seigneur--and things like the droit de prélassement (the right to disembowel a serf to keep your feet warm)--even though it hadn't existed under the Bourbons or any of the German kingdoms he conquered. Just like the various 16th century laws abolishing witchcraft don't mean people were flying around on broomsticks and kissing Satan on the ass a year before, or that there were laws allowing them to do so.

No one has ever found anything in any records that gives any evidence at all that a legal right to the first existed anywhere in medieval Europe. See The Straight Dope and Snopes, and follow the references from there (and from the SD forum threads) if you don't trust their summaries.

[Colton Casados-Medve]

We also have to consider that the evolution of technology in GRRM's world is not the same as in our own. Whereas we had oil, natural gas, coal, etc to spur our modern technologies, its quite probably that GRRM's world lacks all of these things. Therefore, GRRMs world is one in which humanity on our very own Earth reached late Middle Ages technology and then just stayed there.... for thousands and thousands of years. What technologies would we have if we didn't have oil, gas, etc? Its an interesting question. 

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

We also have to consider that the evolution of technology in GRRM's world is not the same as in our own. Whereas we had oil, natural gas, coal, etc to spur our modern technologies, its quite probably that GRRM's world lacks all of these things. Therefore, GRRMs world is one in which humanity on our very own Earth reached late Middle Ages technology and then just stayed there.... for thousands and thousands of years. What technologies would we have if we didn't have oil, gas, etc? Its an interesting question. 

 

This is a very good point. It seems that they have wildfire in place of gunpowder. 

 

Without gunpowder, would we have had the modern world at all? Not sure we'd even reach the Industrial Revolution (where fossil fuels like oil, natural gas, and coal are needed) if we didn't have firearms to conquer the parts of the world without them.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

Some reading I have done recently has made me realise just how poor cartography was in the late-middle ages, in the early 15th century they had most of the European coastlines mapped out fairly well, but anything inland was non-existent, mostly they just had the major cities marked by roughly how far they were from the sea.

 

So whilst they had a decent idea of the shapes of the coastlines, they couldn't really use maps to navigate well, all they could do was travel to the next port/inland town along their path of travel to get a bit closer to their destination.

 

This is way more primitive than what we see in Westeros, maps are used for effective navigation, and show not only the coasts but also inland waterways and settlements in an accurate manner.

 

 

So in terms of cartography Westeros is likely 16th century or later.

[SeanF]

As others have said, it's a mix of periods.

Politically, the absence of estates or borough councils or much of a bureaucracy places it in about 800 AD in Western Europe.

The living standards of its richest inhabitants and its technology are more like Western Europe in 1500 or so.

The way that food is prepared and served for rich people is like Western Europe in 1600 or so.

[Ingelheim]

Just because there's a law abolishing it doesn't mean it actually existed. When Napoleon reestablished monarchy, he abolished the droit de seigneur--and things like the droit de prélassement (the right to disembowel a serf to keep your feet warm)--even though it hadn't existed under the Bourbons or any of the German kingdoms he conquered. Just like the various 16th century laws abolishing witchcraft don't mean people were flying around on broomsticks and kissing Satan on the ass a year before, or that there were laws allowing them to do so.

No one has ever found anything in any records that gives any evidence at all that a legal right to the first existed anywhere in medieval Europe. See The Straight Dope and Snopes, and follow the references from there (and from the SD forum threads) if you don't trust their summaries.

 

No, this is different. The Sentencia Arbitral de Guadalupe was created because of the rebellion the smallfolk put up against Ferdinand because of the "malos usos" (bad ways) the nobles used against them.

 

If he abolished it specifically, it must have been a thing back then, Maybe not a "right" in itself, but something that used to happen.

[William_Tell]

I think that one of the strong points of the series is that vague enough to create a universal setting where pretty much everything deemed "medieval" in popular culture can find its place.

 

We know that Martin had the War of the Roses in mind when he planned the first novels, yet one on one connections between characters and in book events and historical figures and historical events.are difficult to draw.

Recently I thought about similarities between Westeros and 16th century France. We have a dowager queen struggling to keep hold of the throne despite her children weakness and other pretendants to the thornes, some of whom profess a different religion. We have mass-murdering at a wedding. Bretagne can stand in for Dorne: a long time semi independent region, definetely brought into the kingdom through marriage policies. Undoubtedly these were not the things the author had in mind while writing, but it's not impossible to draw paralles between the war of the five kings and different real world events other than those which inspired the novels in first place. I think it's a testament to Martin's ability, he gathered inspiration but then followed his own path.

 

 

On a different but related subject: I can see how the Free Cities are seen as a parrallel of the medieval Italian comuni, but in my opinion they bear no resemblance to them.

First there's a matter of simple geopolitical scale: in Essos there are just nine independent cities on a landmass that looks like at the very  least half the size of Europe, while just in medieval Lombardy (somewhat larger than24000 km²) there were at least ten-to eleven cities who kept their political authonomy for the good part of three hundred years.

Then even more importantly Essosi ( at least judging from Illyrio words to Tyrion) do not have feudalism at all. Feudalism had enormous importance in Italy instead. From my perspective the Italian traits of the free cities are just the canals (from Venice) and the bank(from Genoa) of Braavos, and that's it.

[Annara Snow]

 

No, this is different. The Sentencia Arbitral de Guadalupe was created because of the rebellion the smallfolk put up against Ferdinand because of the "malos usos" (bad ways) the nobles used against them.

 

If he abolished it specifically, it must have been a thing back then, Maybe not a "right" in itself, but something that used to happen.

 

There's a difference between "some powerful rich dudes like to go around raping brides" and "what they do is legal/there is an actual law or accepted not-illegal custom of doing that".

[Ingelheim]

 

There's a difference between "some powerful rich dudes like to go around raping brides" and "what they do is legal/there is an actual law or accepted not-illegal custom of doing that".

 

Sure, agreed. But as Martin himself has pointed out many times, in Middle Ages (or Westeros, for that matter) laws weren't like our ones.

 

Many lords, at least here in Spain, used to take advantages on brides. Not few. There are quite a number of historical references for that in the 14th and 15th century chronicles of the Spanish Kingdoms.

 

Don't actually know much about it outside of my country, that I admit.

[Alia of the knife]

GRRM has used the 14th century, War of the Roses/Plantaganet England, but Wales and Spain as well as there are heavy references to the War of the Roses.

 

But, he also goes back to the Norman Conquest/Aegon the Conqueror as well given the seven kingdoms of Saxon England prior to William and then the "dance" of Plantaganets between Stephen of Blois and Matilda, daughter of Henry I and his heir until Stephen usurped the claim. Matildas son would follow Stephen.

[Colton Casados-Medve]

Some reading I have done recently has made me realise just how poor cartography was in the late-middle ages, in the early 15th century they had most of the European coastlines mapped out fairly well, but anything inland was non-existent, mostly they just had the major cities marked by roughly how far they were from the sea.

 

So whilst they had a decent idea of the shapes of the coastlines, they couldn't really use maps to navigate well, all they could do was travel to the next port/inland town along their path of travel to get a bit closer to their destination.

 

This is way more primitive than what we see in Westeros, maps are used for effective navigation, and show not only the coasts but also inland waterways and settlements in an accurate manner.

 

 

So in terms of cartography Westeros is likely 16th century or later.

 

True, and they've been aided by the fact that these political entities have existed for thousands of years, and perhaps some dragonriders helped make better maps of Westeros/Essos? Its possible. 

[Stannis broatheon]

It wasn't LATIN America in the 14th century, as there was nothing Latin about it at all until the Spanish showed up in the late 15th century.

Dorne doesn't seem very Latin American at all, to me.  To be analagous, there would have to be a very technologically primitive civilization that was almost completely wiped out by invaders, but the closest thing in Dorne would be when Nymeria invaded, but in that case she was invading a nation that was roughly equivalent in technology, and Nymeria did not wipe out all the native institutions of Dorne and enslave the locals, they instead merged cultures.

Dorne DOES remind me of Spain, but more analogous to before the Reconquista.  In that case, you had a local civilization being invaded by foreigners with a different culture and somewhat better technology, and the foreigners did not enslave or exterminate the Spanish locals, but instead incorporated them into their society and a new culture emerged that combined traits from the old Christian visigoths and the Muslims from Northern Africa.  That sounds like Dorne to me.

Nymeria= Hernan Cortez, she burnt the ships, and use Dorne's division to conquer it.

[VicAndTheSquidSquad]

My guess is 14th Century. Europe and latin America are represented as Westeros and Dorne.
 
 
 
 
Essos would be the Asian countries I guess. Our west is their east.

Asia was east in the middle ages.