Orphalesion Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Surely I am not the only person who thinks Jaime was justified in killing Aerys? No I am with you on that, he definitely saved King's Landing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Greetings Westeros.org world! I'm a first time long time, been debating on how to pop my OP cherry for a while so here goes. (2 part question) Does anyone think that Tyrion and Jamie will come face to face again before the song is finished? Will all three remaining Lannister children ever be together in the same room again? (All 3 not just Cersai and her valanquor) I do not understand why Tyrion is so mad about Jaime, Jaime is one of few Lannisters who are kind to him, and it was Jaime who saved him from certain death, and somehow Tyrion now see Jaime his sworn enemy just because what happened to Tasha? Think about it what Jaime had anything to do with what happened to Tasha? That was Tywin's decision, the only thing you could say Jaime did "wrong" on this affair is that Jaime did not tell Tyrion the whole truth, but even Jaime told Tyrion, what could be changed? After some many caring and kindness at Jaime's part and after be saving from death by Jaime, what Tyrion did to Jaime was so ungrateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Tyrion will betray dany for gold which is castetly rock, jon will betray dany for love in arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dwarfs Penny Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Thanks for the big welcome guys and girls! I always thought that Cersai would succeed in burning down maegors maybe not all of kings landing but defiantly maegors. I don't think that Jamie will be able to kill Cersai when the time comes I think he will choke resulting in Cersai killing him and burning down maegors holdfast. Cersai will retreat to the rock. Tyrion will find his way into the rock 1 by being a Lannister and 2 because he was the plumber there and he will have his reckoning with Cersai. A Lannister always pays their debts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danelle Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Surely I am not the only person who thinks Jaime was justified in killing Aerys? No you are not. Jaime has done awful things but if there ever was a man who deserved to be murdered by Jaime, it was Aerys Targaryen. Not just for horribly torturing the Starks and attempting to burn KL, but also for his horrible treatment of Rhaella and the numerous others who suffered because of him, such as the nurse of Jaeherys and his mistress and her family. I do not understand why Tyrion is so mad about Jaime, Jaime is one of few Lannisters who are kind to him, and it was Jaime who saved him from certain death, and somehow Tyrion now see Jaime his sworn enemy just because what happened to Tasha? Think about it what Jaime had anything to do with what happened to Tasha? That was Tywin's decision, the only thing you could say Jaime did "wrong" on this affair is that Jaime did not tell Tyrion the whole truth, but even Jaime told Tyrion, what could be changed? After some many caring and kindness at Jaime's part and after be saving from death by Jaime, what Tyrion did to Jaime was so ungrateful. It's all about Lannisters, love and loss. From Tyrion's family Jaime wasn't the only one to show kindness to Tyrion. Tygett was kind to him but he died. Kevan respected him but his devotion to his older brother was stronger. Genna had realized how charismatic Tyrion was, but Tywin was less than thrilled to hear about it. Gerion encouraged Tyrion, but he disappeared. And he was left with Jaime. His older brother never shared Tywin and Cersei's feelings towards him. In fact since his birth, Jaime was there for him as evidenced from Oberyn's recollection. The two brothers had a strong bond, they both constantly think what the other would do if he was in his place. But the only person who also seemed to care genuinely for Tyrion was Tysha. For years Tyrion was led to believe that she was a whore, therefore the only reason women would agree to be with him, was his wealth. That notion formulated his relationship with women. It also made him conclude that Jaime pitied him and regarded him incapable of being loved by a girl, thus he paid Tysha to have sex with him. Tywin's decision to order Jaime to lie was particularly cruel. Not only Jaime could not refuse his father(I suppose that neither Kevan nor Gerion would have agreed to participate in such a filthy scheme) but he was the one person that Tyrion absolutely trusted and idolized. Jaime did not order Tysha rape but he allowed Tyrion to believe that Tysha was after his money instead of being actually in love with him. Nevertheless Tyrion is divided about Jaime.He did dream of having two heads while he killed Jaime and in the end one of the heads was weeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadows and dust Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Then Daenerys sticks her blood and fire up Jaime' s rear, because no redemption storyline can excuse the things Jaime has done in his past. Surely I am not the only person who thinks Jaime was justified in killing Aerys? No one in the series is "perfect" but seriously, has Jaime done anything unexpected of him considering his position, family and his own sense of right and wrong? I don't think they're mutually exclusive. You can feel Jaimie is justified w/ killing Aerys, and still believe Jaimie is beyond redemption. For whatever notions of self-preservation, or even family preservation he may have had, he's never owned up for or paid for his actions w/ Bran. He never even confessed when speaking to Tyrion, on what was essentially his death bed during the trial. Like a little "hey, i know you didn't kill my kid. you keep getting blamed for shit you didn't do, like that time i tried killing the stark kid. well at least you got Bronn out of it. lol" There would be an irony of sorts if, out of all the things he should/could be killed for - attempted murder on a child, cuckholding the king, putting a fake incest-conceived child on the throne, allowing Ned to be executed for treason while knowing he wasn't lying.... He'd be killed for the justifiable one he'd already been pardoned for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediterraneo Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I don't think they're mutually exclusive. You can feel Jaimie is justified w/ killing Aerys, and still believe Jaimie is beyond redemption. For whatever notions of self-preservation, or even family preservation he may have had, he's never owned up for or paid for his actions w/ Bran. He never even confessed when speaking to Tyrion, on what was essentially his death bed during the trial. Like a little "hey, i know you didn't kill my kid. you keep getting blamed for shit you didn't do, like that time i tried killing the stark kid. well at least you got Bronn out of it. lol" There would be an irony of sorts if, out of all the things he should/could be killed for - attempted murder on a child, cuckholding the king, putting a fake incest-conceived child on the throne, allowing Ned to be executed for treason while knowing he wasn't lying.... He'd be killed for the justifiable one he'd already been pardoned for. Well, opinions are interesting for their variety. But it is not true that Jaime hid something about Bran's destiny. He didn't talk of it during Tyrion trial for killing Jeoffrey. He didn't talk about that also during a card game he played in a tent on the south from Winterfell. Because in both cases it wasn't the matter. When it was the matter, when Catelyn, the boy's mother, was trying to kill him for that, Jaime told her. "I pushed him out of the window". "Why?" "Because I wanted him to die". And then he offered her help, sharing knowledgge how to kill him, while he was tied and she was hitting him in the head with a big stone. So, it is not opinion that Jaime doesn't hide from his deeds, it is fact. Like it or not. A lot can be said about what Jaime did to Bran, but the question should be: what if he didn't push the innocent child out of the window? What does Robert do to the children that are a menace to his succession? Aegon? Rhaenys? WIth Daenerys and Viserys he was still sending assassins after the after 17 years. Imagine what would have him done to Jeoffrey, Tommen and Myrcella. The life of three children against the life of just one child. Add that the three are your ones. Add you life's love's life and your own to the mix, and tell me what Mr Spock would do. We should add the crow. The crow that was pushing Bran to climb that day, insisting. For him to get there, and see what he saw. Is the Three Eyed Crow Bloodraven? Is the Three Eyed Crow some impersonal divinity? Is the Three Eyed Crow the future self of Bran? In any case, he shares a lot of the responsibility for what happened there. Guess what? Robert benefitted a lot from Lannister's killings in King's Landing. That's why he kept them in with the winners after the war. And whoever the Three Eyed Crow is, he had his payoff complete, getting Bran to link with the tree, exactly where he wanted him - he couldn't allow that the kid would become a knight as he dreamt of. Guess who is the one getting all of the responsibility for both acts? The only one who satnds to it and gets the blame? Yeppa. Jaime. Cersei tries to give him the psicological responisbility after the facts, when she was repeatedly bitching for it during the facts. She throw it on his face later, in King's Landing. Not Jaime. He stands, smiles, and offers anybody the chance to go get him, without even explaining his very good motives. And in terms of punishment, I'd suggest to count how many hands do Jaime has. They actually cut him off the hand with which he pushed the boy. For preventing a rape. Don't tell me he hasn't been punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtney2537 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think Jamie was justified killing Aerys. If he hadn't, then Aerys would have burnt down Kings Landing. And yes, I get that he pushed Bran out the window and screwed his sister. Total dick moves. But is he capable of burning down a whole freaking city, like Aerys? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targurl 15 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Surely I am not the only person who thinks Jaime was justified in killing Aerys? No one in the series is "perfect" but seriously, has Jaime done anything unexpected of him considering his position, family and his own sense of right and wrong? incest, child murdering, attempted child murdering. The king slaying is fine, it's the other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targurl 15 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I don't think they're mutually exclusive. You can feel Jaimie is justified w/ killing Aerys, and still believe Jaimie is beyond redemption. For whatever notions of self-preservation, or even family preservation he may have had, he's never owned up for or paid for his actions w/ Bran. He never even confessed when speaking to Tyrion, on what was essentially his death bed during the trial. Like a little "hey, i know you didn't kill my kid. you keep getting blamed for shit you didn't do, like that time i tried killing the stark kid. well at least you got Bronn out of it. lol" There would be an irony of sorts if, out of all the things he should/could be killed for - attempted murder on a child, cuckholding the king, putting a fake incest-conceived child on the throne, allowing Ned to be executed for treason while knowing he wasn't lying.... He'd be killed for the justifiable one he'd already been pardoned for. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Biscuit Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Since I'm of the opinion that Dany will never sit the Iron Throne (From Dragonstone she'll challenge Aegon who is on the Iron Throne), I don't see any way of her to put Jamie on trial. And besides that, she's not a trial kind of ruler. If he somehow got caught by her forces, he'll just be killed. I don't believe that will happen because I don't see Jamie putting himself in that position. I don't see Tyrion and Cersei ever meeting again. I think she'll die before he comes back to Westeros. If Jamie is willing to let Cersei, whom he loved more than Tyrion, die via the Faith.. what makes anyone think that he would spare Tyrion's life after Tyrion killed his sire and father? The next time Jamie sees Tyrion, unless Tyrion is surrounded by solders, Tyrion will die. What Tyrion did is unforgivable to the entirety of House Lannister. Should any Lannister find him, they will kill him on the spot including Jamie. And likewise Tyrion will never forgive Jamie for his lie unless it's discovered that Tysha was indeed a whore. But in short, the next time they see each other, if they see each other, Jamie will kill Tyrion unless Tyrion has soldiers to fight on his behalf in order to spare his life. Tyrion is utterly doomed should he ever decide to go back to the Westerlands which it sounds like he wants to do out of pride and spite. But that will lead to his bitter death. He would need a tremendous army or a massive betrayal akin to the Red Wedding within House Lannister in order for him to take the Rock. And even then, his situation would be as Theon's was when he briefly held Winterfell - he would be surrounded by people that hate him and unable to keep Rock but for a few days/weeks at most since the Rock would be besieged by Minor Lords asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The Bastard Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 incest, child murdering, attempted child murdering. The king slaying is fine, it's the other stuff. You completely miss my point... Not saying Jaime didn't do unsavory things. He surely has. I'm saying lots of people do unsavory things in this saga. They all have their reasons. Jaime simply had his... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 incest, child murdering, attempted child murdering. The king slaying is fine, it's the other stuff. Incest is not a big deal in this book. Targ did that a lot. they also had a couple who were twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targurl 15 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You completely miss my point... Not saying Jaime didn't do unsavory things. He surely has. I'm saying lots of people do unsavory things in this saga. They all have their reasons. Jaime simply had his... And I am saying that Jaime' s reasons weren't good enough. He just acts without thinking. Stupid, and initially selfish. But my main point is that it would be stupid for Jaime to criticise Daenerys' family when you look at what he is related to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targurl 15 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Incest is not a big deal in this book. Targ did that a lot. they also had a couple who were twins. Yes, but Jaime knows from working with The Mad King that incest can result in children who are less than lovely, but Jaime does not care about putting another Mad King on the throne, as long as he gets to do his sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 And then Dany sticks her fire and blood up Jaime' s rear. Because no redemption storyline can fix what Jaime has done in his past. Dany doesn't know or care about the actual bad things that Jaime has done, if she kills him it will be for killing Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targurl 15 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Dany doesn't know or care about the actual bad things that Jaime has done, if she kills him it will be for killing Aerys. I know. I am just saying that if she did it would be no less than he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great and Mighty Poo Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Incest is not a big deal in this book. Targ did that a lot. they also had a couple who were twins. Incest is still a taboo, in the books. However, yes Targs did it. If we can relate it to our world: I was reading an article which I can't find now about how incest is not as frowned apon as most people think. The majority of its examples were cousins though. One was pretty funny,imo. Where a guy and girl married had a bunch of perfectly healthy kids then found out they were brother sister. Stayed married. But to the point one can not look at the incest as a crime or wrong doing like the Bran thing. It's just a taboo. A reactive thought- the adultery is though. Unless you're under the thought all is fair. Blahaha! Eta:were vs was fool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehmet Eren Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I dont know but I really start to believe Jamie will kill Cersei..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion I Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Surely I am not the only person who thinks Jaime was justified in killing Aerys? No one in the series is "perfect" but seriously, has Jaime done anything unexpected of him considering his position, family and his own sense of right and wrong? No, you are not the only one. As far as "justified" is the right word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.