Uncia Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Or you could release a genetic engineered virus to solve the problem of the muslim world of too many young men..ha. hahahaaa.Ever heard of polygamy ?As for creating a "Sunni arab State", what rule law do you really think that the population will consensually agree to ? western secular law ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Uncia,The Salaifi/Wahabi extemist Sharia practiced by the Dae'sh is not the only Sharia legal tradition acceptable to Sunni Muslims.Why are you implying that is the law that would be implimented in such a State? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biglose Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 ha. hahahaaa.Ever heard of polygamy ? And there I was thinking nobody would actually take it seriously, because of the obvious context. But not just that, this person actually manages to fail to argue against a strawman. This is actually the first time I get to witness this...From all the factors which would make that kind of thing morally "I do not even know an english word strong enough" and of all the aspects which would make it practically impossible, you go with the one thing which actually would increase the vulnerability to gentic manipulated diseases and is one of the things you could actually argue is a contributing factor to the problem which would be countered (so making it more sensible as a resolution) to arguee against the proposal. So beyond me, so beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 An Islamist faction in Afghanistan has formerly sworn allegiance to Islamic State. They have seized four provinces south of Jalalabad and apparently killed swathes of government soldiers and opposition fighters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Wert,Unified enemies. That's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Wert,Unified enemies. That's bad.ScotNot exactly a voluntary unification. It is being reported that the ISIS faction may in fact have shot dead the leader of the Taliban. And are now spreading through 25 of Afghanistan's 30-odd provinces.So more like a hostile takeover.If one was religiously inclined - which I am - one might well be tempted to see ISIS - which is still not being taken seriously enough as a global threat - as the guys that eventually take over much of the Muslim world and start WW3 against the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well that ups the ante somewhat.In other somewhat related news, Iraq demands that Turkey remove their troops from near Mosul. I wonder how Turkey and its NATO allies will feel about territorial sovereignty in this instance. Link to BBC story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well that ups the ante somewhat.In other somewhat related news, Iraq demands that Turkey remove their troops from near Mosul. I wonder how Turkey and its NATO allies will feel about territorial sovereignty in this instance. Link to BBC story.Yeah. Those Turkish troops are rather close to Iraqi Kurdistan. One wonders how much of their focus is on fighting ISIS, and how much on making sure the Kurds are kept in their place.I love how the Turks claim they are there to "help train the Iraqi forces fighting ISIS". Meanwhile the Iraqi's state clearly they never invited them and in fact don't want them there. How exactly do you supposedly train folks who want nothing to do with you?Erdogan is like a poor man's Putin. Copy catting Putin's Syria tricks, only in a far clumsier and ham fisted way. At least in Syria Putin is really there at Assad's invitation. Who is Turkey gonna claim invited them into Iraq?Erdogan probably thinks he is matching Putin move for move, but actually he is just making himself look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I would hope NATO tells the Turks, "out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I would hope NATO tells the Turks, "out".So imagine a hypothetical scenario where Turkey ignores its Nato partners, as it often does, (heck, the US practically has to beg them to use their air bases for bombing raids in Iraq and Syria).So then Iraq formally asks Russia to help them get rid of the Turkish forces, who are invaders for all intents and purposes. So Russia proceeds to bomb the Turkish regiment to smithereens - all perfectly legal, given that they were acting on behalf of the legitimate government of Iraq, against a force that invaded their sovereign territory. (Invading with a regiment of troops and 20 odd tanks - and refusing to leave at the request of the nation whose borders you violated - is surely a far graver offense than a 17 second, non-threatening airspace violation).So let's say Russia then bombs these Turkish forces out of Iraq. What does Nato do then? Defend Turkey, despite Turkey being the clear aggressor in this instance?If Russia plays its cards right, this could be a golden opportunity to cause some serious havoc within the defunct and outdated Nato alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 FNR,That's a nightmarish scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 FNR,That's a nightmarish scenario.Well, it is WW3, unless Nato basically takes Russia and Iraq's side and agree that Turkey was in the wrong. But then that has dire consequences for the Nato alliance itself, which would be Russia's aim with such an action in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I expect that Iraq's protestations might well be ignored and any complaint about territorial sovereignty will be dismissed due to extraordinary circumstances, ie combating Daesh. According to the Jerusalem Post, Daesh is now training people in Lybia(that oft touted NATO success story) to fly planes. Apparently they have a a very modern flight simulator. Link to JP story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Did Erdogan commit political suicide?Very interesting article:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shahir-shahidsaless/did-erdogan-commit-politi_b_8727622.htmlBasically, Erdogan ordered the shooting down of the Russian jet because Russia has dealt his plans in Syria a death blow. He did so in the hope that Russia would respond harshly, and thus bring the Nato alliance into the conflict, thus salvaging Erdogan's own plans for northern Syria.Instead, Russia countered him with sanctions, and created an effective no fly zone in Northern Syria with the deployment of their AS-400 missile system. And they started a massive campaign to discredit Erdogan personally, with evidence linking his own family to the ISIS oil trade.Also, despite Turkey calling an emergency Nato meeting immediately after downing the jet, Nato members, while publicly backing Turkey, apparently were rather upset with Erdogan's actions, and felt that he should rather have had his jets escort the Russian plane out of Turkish air space.So in short, Erdogan badly miscalculated, and his actions have backfired rather alarmingly for him.So I wonder. Could this Iraqi incursion by Turkey be the next move in Erdogan's continuing desperate attempts to draw Russia into a harsh action against him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrnosfe Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well I read this forum and I am surprised at each and every post. Do you really not know that Turkey is the force behind your beloved peshmerga (kurdish forces in North Iraq)?Do you not realise that without turkish help these peshmerga would accomplish nothing but the swiftest of deaths and some 5 million more refugees? Turkish forces are training them for years now giving every support possible with Nato weapons and that is very well known amongst Nato. How come you hear all this right now?Turkey has problems with Syrian ypg since it has close connections to pkk which is a terrorist organisation acknowledged by all Europe and nato. And the people writing to this forum is not even aware of these facts. Your media is manipulating you in the worst ways and this is going nowhere good.The alleged petrol trade that Putin claims is between northern Iraqi kurdish government and turkey. So you cannot claim that Kurds are good and turks are bad because basically they are on the same side. Logic? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wouter Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 What cgrnosfe writes is true - the Turkish troops are there to train Kurdish Peshmerga, while the Iraqi government is under Iranian influence and there are severe tensions between Shi'ite militias and Peshmerga's.Erdogan and co are dead set against the YPG though, and the parts of that organisation that defended Kobane (ultimately succesfull, after the US airforce was allowed to really help them) gained great sympathy in the west last year. As communists, they are at least clearly not islamists and they fight Daesh (even with female fighters). As a result, they are allies of sorts for the West and potential allies for Russia, but Erdogan would probably rather have Daesh defeat them because of their links with the PKK (of which they are the Syrian branch, more or less). And other Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia don't like them because they are godless and occupy what they consider to be sunni territory.For Iran, the relation with the Kurds is probably the other way round: they dislike the Peshmerga in Iraq (those are competition for their own clients in Iraq) but the YPG fights their sunni enemies in Syria and is not friendly with Turkey, now a rival of Iranian influence in the region.Meanwhile, IS is spreading ever further, with them taking over Libya and apparently, much of Afghanistan.I think the Turkish force in Iraq is safe from the Russians; the airspace there can easily be controlled by Turkish and NATO/US assets in Turkey and in this instance, I suppose the US would back Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well I read this forum and I am surprised at each and every post. Do you really not know that Turkey is the force behind your beloved peshmerga (kurdish forces in North Iraq)? Do you not realise that without turkish help these peshmerga would accomplish nothing but the swiftest of deaths and some 5 million more refugees? Turkish forces are training them for years now giving every support possible with Nato weapons and that is very well known amongst Nato. How come you hear all this right now? Turkey has problems with Syrian ypg since it has close connections to pkk which is a terrorist organisation acknowledged by all Europe and nato. And the people writing to this forum is not even aware of these facts. Your media is manipulating you in the worst ways and this is going nowhere good. The alleged petrol trade that Putin claims is between northern Iraqi kurdish government and turkey. So you cannot claim that Kurds are good and turks are bad because basically they are on the same side. Logic? Anyone?Turkey, helping the Kurds? Are the Israelis also supplying arms to Hezbollah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Well, I guess all them airstrikes are part of the training Turkey is providing to their Kurdish brothes in Iraq then?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11791780/Turkish-airstrikes-killed-my-siblings-while-I-fought-Isil.htmlhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/10/turkey-strikes-on-kurds-could-drag-us-into-new-front-military-sources-fear.htmlhttp://www.middleeasteye.net/news/iraqi-kurdish-civilians-bear-brunt-turkish-airstrikes-1817956753www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/08/11/turkey-strikes-iraq-near-peshmerga-training-base-narrowly-missing-american-soldiers/Yip. Some great training in how to dive into your bunker, quickly. But maybe delivered with just a tad too much zeal and enthusiasm, would you not say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrnosfe Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 You are clearly misinformed. Pkk / ypg is another force ( ones defending Kobane) and peshmerga is another force. Turkish army supports peshmerga not from the beginning of Syrian conflict, but since 1990s. Get your facts straight. Pkk / ypg is fighting isis but is in fact no differently than isis. Your media is bombarding you with incorrect information and you bother not to ask why or source or credit for information. If I am wrong or lying why is pkk on the terror list of nearly all Europe and us? Why are there more than 100 turkish construction companies operating in Northern Iraq? Ask and answer the questions and see the truth for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 I'm sure Erdogan would love a Kurdish state straddling Northern Iraq, Northern Syria and Southern Turkey, with a population of some 30 million Kurds.Personally, I find it shocking that an ethnic group of that size could not have their own country, but instead be forced to assimilate as oppressed minorities in so many surrounding countries.Give them a friggin state already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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