Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Lost Melnibonean

Friends in the Reach

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, Scorpion92 said:

Nah, I feel like Dany will uncover the truth behind Hightowers and the Citadel conspiracy, and we shall see a nice candle tower once she sets aflame Hightower's base of black oily stone. Dany's invasion of Westeros needs to bear more than simple "two claimants to the throne fight to the death and try to win over rich people to their sides". Her entire conqueror narrative has "liberator" and "breaker of chains" tidbits among her redeeming qualities, and what is feudal system if not another slavery, just in different package and gift wrap? I do not expect big noble houses to support her claim once she comes over to Westeros. In fact, Aegon's conquest is all about trying to KEEP feudal system while putting a king most fit to thrive in this system on a throne. Varys and Illyrio have been preparing the boy for this his whole life. Dany's conquest is much more fundamental in spirit. That is why I believe why there is a trend of new powers hibernating in each respective region waiting to be unleashed either by Jon or Dany.

We have seeds of democratic transformation everywhere: Free Folk and their "no kneeling" philisophy which Jon will inject into the North once he gets ELECTED as King in the North (I also believe Davos will bring thousands of Braavosi ships and refugees to White Harbor once their city drowns during Long Night, and the same with Theon and ironborn's migration to Cape Kraken who are pretty democratic in their leader choosing as well, but that is an essay for another topic); a Brotherhood without Banners in Riverlands which actually starts to recruit Riverlands NOBILITY to their ranks if some essays about BwB web can be believed and how Pipers and Vances and later Blackfish might be involved; another branch of Brotherhood without Banners led by Edric Dayne which I believe will start in Kingswood area in Stormlands; mountain clans of the Vale and Tyrion's involvement and promise to them; thousands of Dothrakis that will "knock down stone houses" all across Southern Westeros (Reach, Stormlands, Dorne and Westerlands).

One of the predictions I cannot wait to happen is how Tyrion will sack and pillage Lannisport with Dothrakis like Tywin did with King's Landing, and then infiltrate Casterly Rock through sewer systems with Unsullied; this act will forever kill off any hope of Tyrion becoming Warden of the West and Lord of Casterly Rock, but he will be the reason these two titles will mean nothing after he is done destroying his father's seat of power - I think that will be much sweeter for Tyrion. Karma is a bitch, Tywin, who better than your own son to do destroy your legacy?

Dany needs to destroy and "Fire and Blood" throughout the whole noble system if she wants to truly "free the slaves" of this system. Of course, it will make people to turn to her for a hope and better alternative, but it will all be resolved neither by her nor Jon by the end of the series, but more capable people like Tyrion, Sam, Sansa, Davos, etc. Dany and Jon are "necessary destructive forces" of this story - "ice" and "fire".

Do you see a trend here? These are slow time-ticking bombs that are waiting to be unleashed when time is right to wipe out "old system" and establish something new and better. Does not mean it will go without blood (there will be plenty), but that is a necessary price for better change.

So yeah, Hightowers are part of that "old system", and Dany MIGHT offer, for example, House Yronwood a Lord Paramount of Dorne position, but by the time she is done conquering and destroying Westeros and then Long Night and Battle for the Dawn, I doubt that noble class and feudal system will survive. There will be truly a new era and "a dream of spring".

Wow, great post, I do not agree with everything, but have some strong arguments here.

Hightower just came to my mind because of whole magic stuff, and yes they did their best to destroy magic, but Lord Leyton seems kinda different.

I agree that few houses will support Daenerys, those that are sick amd tired of Lannisters will join Aegon (most of Reach, Dorne, likely Stormlands, Riverlands, Vale and ofc West) and North would likely be too busy and only Vale here can switch sides. About West I have to say that Varys likely have Tyrek Lannister and that there is bigger chance that Aegon pardons someone than Daenerys, especially after her last chapter.

About Yronwoods, Daenerys needs an excuse to attack rrightful King and she will surely go with mummers dragon story, but if Aegon is Blackfyre that would mean Yronwoods would have every reason to back him.

About crushing feudalism... I see your point, well thought and well written, but there is problem that Daenerys is completly incompetent to rule and if she embraces that fire and blood way and brings foreigners to Westeros, people wont be happy. And does she have an idea what to do after? Better to have dictatorship transform step by step in free society that rush with whole democracy thing wih no plan of future, she what happened to Libya.

9 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

You know what... I was thinking of a freckley little Redwyne, not a Hightower...

As much as I hope Lord Paxter will crush Euron, in order for plot to progress I believe Redwyne fleet will be destroyed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

@dariopatke I can't help but wonder whether Euron plans to slip past Redwyne, having lured him back to the west, so he can steal the Iron Throne more easily. 

Mayhaps, but why did he

 

do what he did to Aeron and Falia, I am still hyped to see a battle from his POV

How do you think he might pull it off?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dariopatke said:

Mayhaps, but why did he

  Hide contents

do what he did to Aeron and Falia, I am still hyped to see a battle from his POV

How do you think he might pull it off?

Well, the Redwyne fleet is no doubt cleaving to the Dornish shore, while Euron has already demonstrated the ability to sail farther out to sea. And didn't he do some voodoo to aid his inital apoach against the Reach?

Spoiler

Maybe Aeron is being used to further a spell.

(I'm spitballing here rather than supporting a theory or expectation.) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Knight of valour said:

Peake

Mandrake

Rowan

Tarly

The only Mandrakes we see or even hear of are with the Golden Company. Jon Connington tells us that House Mandrake once loomed large in Westeros, so it's possible that the house in Westeros was merely reduced in stature, like Osgrey, or perhaps the house was exiled entirely. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Well, the Redwyne fleet is no doubt cleaving to the Dornish shore, while Euron has already demonstrated the ability to sail farther out to sea. And didn't he do some voodoo to aid his inital apoach against the Reach?

  Reveal hidden contents

Maybe Aeron is being used to further a spell.

(I'm spitballing here rather than supporting a theory or expectation.) 

Very possible, I never thought about this, but it makes sense 100%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm...

Cersei thinks of Taena Merryweather of Myr as “sloe-eyed.” Now, my understanding was that sloe-eyed, meant a gal with almond-shaped eyes. But, as I was rereading Cersei III, Feast 12, I looked up the definition on Merriam-Webster online, and read this...

Quote

 

1:  having soft dark bluish- or purplish-black eyes

2:  having slanted eyes

 

Oh my...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Umm...

Cersei thinks of Taena Merryweather of Myr as “sloe-eyed.” Now, my understanding was that sloe-eyed, meant a gal with almond-shaped eyes. But, as I was rereading Cersei III, Feast 12, I looked up the definition on Merriam-Webster online, and read this...

Oh my...

Sansa calls them dark in her POV. Sloe eyed typically doesn't have a color attached to it, just dark eyes with the almond shape referred to in part 2. I'd hesitate into reading in more than that. The Targs/Blackfyres don't really have any attachment to Myr that I can think of or remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But not House Caswell...

Quote

 

The dwarf's sudden silence went unnoticed, as Duck had begun to regale him with his own life story. His father had been an armorer at Bitterbridge, he said, so he had been born with the sound of steel ringing in his ears and had taken to swordplay at an early age. Such a large and likely lad drew the eye of old Lord Caswell, who offered him a place in his garrison, but the boy had wanted more. He watched Caswell's weakling son named a page, a squire, and finally a knight. "A weedy pinch-faced sneak, he was, but the old lord had four daughters and only the one son, so no one was allowed to say a word against him. T'other squires hardly dared to lay a finger on him in the yard."

"You were not so timid, though." Tyrion could see where this tale was going easily enough.

"My father made a longsword for me to mark my sixteenth nameday," said Duck, "but Lorent liked the look of it so much he took it for himself, and my bloody father never dared to tell him no. When I complained, Lorent told me to my face that my hand was made to hold a hammer, not a sword. So I went and got a hammer and beat him with it, till both his arms and half his ribs were broken. After that I had to leave the Reach, quick as it were. I made it across the water to the Golden Company. I did some smithing for a few years as a 'prentice, then Ser Harry Strickland took me on as squire. When Griff sent word downriver that he needed someone to help train his son to arms, Harry sent him me."

"And Griff knighted you?"

"A year later." 

 

Tyrion III, Dance 8

Quote

The prince arrived to join them four days later, riding at the head of a column of a hundred horse, with three elephants lumbering in his rear. Lady Lemore was with him, garbed once more in the white robes of a septa. Before them went Ser Rolly Duckfield, a snow-white cloak streaming from his shoulders.

A solid man, and true, Connington thought as he watched Duck dismount, but not worthy of the Kingsguard. He had tried his best to dissuade the prince from giving Duckfield that cloak, pointing out that the honor might best be held in reserve for warriors of greater renown whose fealty would add luster to their cause, and the younger sons of great lords whose support they would need in the coming struggle, but the boy would not be moved. "Duck will die for me if need be," he had said, "and that's all I require in my Kingsguard. The Kingslayer was a warrior of great renown, and the son of a great lord as well."

The Griffin Reborn, Dance 61

So, even though House Caswell participated in the Traitors' Tourney, I would guess that Lord Lorent Caswell would be disinclined to support Aegon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/21/2016 at 4:23 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Umm...

Cersei thinks of Taena Merryweather of Myr as “sloe-eyed.” Now, my understanding was that sloe-eyed, meant a gal with almond-shaped eyes. But, as I was rereading Cersei III, Feast 12, I looked up the definition on Merriam-Webster online, and read this...

Oh my...

Ooh, and there's this...

Quote

She has no notion what a sweet serpent she has in that Myrish slut.

Jaime II, Feast 16

The author refers to dragons as serpents and snakes several times. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/21/2016 at 4:11 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

Sansa calls them dark in her POV. Sloe eyed typically doesn't have a color attached to it, just dark eyes with the almond shape referred to in part 2. I'd hesitate into reading in more than that. The Targs/Blackfyres don't really have any attachment to Myr that I can think of or remember.

 

On 9/21/2016 at 3:23 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Umm...

Cersei thinks of Taena Merryweather of Myr as “sloe-eyed.” Now, my understanding was that sloe-eyed, meant a gal with almond-shaped eyes. But, as I was rereading Cersei III, Feast 12, I looked up the definition on Merriam-Webster online, and read this...

Oh my...

There could be (and likely is) a few Blackfyre descendants around the Free Cities, I would imagine. 

Sometimes I wonder if Varys is just working with any "dragon" - Aurane and Taena were likely helping Varys further divide the Lannisters and the Tyrells.  Longwaters was assisting "Rugen" in the dungeon.  And then there's Dany and Aegon, whatever kind of dragon they might be. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/17/2016 at 5:36 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ooh, and there's this...

Jaime II, Feast 16

The author refers to dragons as serpents and snakes several times. 

As in...

Quote

Drogon arched upward with a hiss of pain. His tail lashed sideways. She watched his head crane around at the end of that long serpentine neck, saw his black wings unfold. 

Daenerys IX, Dance 52

Quote

 

Two eyes rose up before him.

Bronze, they were, brighter than polished shields, glowing with their own heat, burning behind a veil of smoke rising from the dragon's nostrils. The light of Quentyn's torch washed over scales of dark green, the green of moss in the deep woods at dusk, just before the last light fades. Then the dragon opened its mouth, and light and heat washed over them. Behind a fence of sharp black teeth he glimpsed the furnace glow, the shimmer of a sleeping fire a hundred times brighter than his torch. The dragon's head was larger than a horse's, and the neck stretched on and on, uncoiling like some great green serpent as the head rose, until those two glowing bronze eyes were staring down at him.

...

A trickle of ash caught his eye, betraying movement. Something pale, half-hidden, stirring. He' s made himself a cave, the prince realized. A burrow in the brick. The foundations of the Great Pyramid of Meereen were massive and thick to support the weight of the huge structure overhead; even the interior walls were three times thicker than any castle's curtain walls. But Viserion had dug himself a hole in them with flame and claw, a hole big enough to sleep in.

And we' ve just woken him. He could see what looked like some huge white serpent uncoiling inside the wall, up where it curved to become the ceiling. More ash went drifting downward, and a bit of crumbling brick fell away. The serpent resolved itself into a neck and tail, and then the dragon's long horned head appeared, his eyes glowing in the dark like golden coals. His wings rattled, stretching.

 

The Dragontamer, Dance 68

Quote

When she had her handmaids char the horsemeat black, the dragons ripped at it eagerly, their heads striking like snakes.

Daenerys I, Clash 12

Quote

Drogon's long neck snaked out and he opened his mouth to scream, steam rising from between his teeth.

Daenerys IV, Clash 48

Quote

She took a chunk of salt pork out of the bowl in her lap and held it up for her dragons to see. All three of them eyed it hungrily. Rhaegal spread green wings and stirred the air, and Viserion's neck swayed back and forth like a long pale snake's as he followed the movement of her hand.

Daenerys I, Storm 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

"We do, Your Grace." Orton Merryweather was not a comely man, with his big lumpish nose and shock of unruly reddish-orange hair, but he was never less than courteous. "We have Dornish red and Arbor gold, and a fine sweet hippocras from Highgarden."

"The gold, I think. I find Dornish wines as sour as the Dornish." As Merryweather filled her cup, Cersei said, "I suppose we had as well begin with them."

 

Cersei IV, Feast 17

I got a silver stag says Orton is related to House Hightower...

Quote

"Make way!" someone shouted from the cross street. "Make way for my lords of Redwyne!" It was all Arya could do to get out of the road before they ran her down, four guardsmen on huge horses, pounding past at a gallop. They wore checked cloaks, blue-and-burgundy. Behind them, two young lordlings rode side by side on a pair of chestnut mares alike as peas in a pod. Arya had seen them in the bailey a hundred times; the Redwyne twins, Ser Horas and Ser Hobber, homely youths with orange hair and square, freckled faces. Sansa and Jeyne Poole used to call them Ser Horror and Ser Slobber, and giggle whenever they caught sight of them. They did not look funny now.

Arya V, Game 65

Quote

The others had to scramble for seats: Lord Mace Tyrell, a heavy, robust man with curling brown hair and a spade-shaped beard well salted with white; Paxter Redwyne of the Arbor, stoop-shouldered and thin, his bald head fringed by tufts of orange hair; Mathis Rowan, Lord of Goldengrove, clean-shaven, stout, and sweating; the High Septon, a frail man with wispy white chin hair.

Tyrion III, Storm 19

Quote

 

Jaime lifted his own cup left-handed and took a swallow. The warmth spread through his chest. "You were speaking of the Freys you wanted dead. Ryman, Edwyn, Emmon . . ."

"And Walder Rivers," Daven said, "that whoreson. Hates that he's a bastard, and hates everyone who's not. Ser Perwyn seems a decent fellow, though, might as well spare him. The women too. I'm to marry one, I hear. Your father might have seen fit to consult with me about this marriage, by the bye. My own father was treating with Paxter Redwyne before Oxcross, did you know? Redwyne has a nicely dowered daughter . . ."

"Desmera?" Jaime laughed. "How well do you like freckles?"

"If my choice is Freys or freckles, well . . . half of Lord Walder's brood look like stoats."

 

Jaime V, Feast 33

Perhaps Orton is another grandson of Runceford...

Quote

Tyrion left the fat women to their loaves and kettles and went in search of the cellar where Illyrio had decanted him the night before. It was not hard to find. There was enough wine there to keep him drunk for a hundred years; sweet reds from the Reach and sour reds from Dorne, pale Pentoshi ambers, the green nectar of Myr, three score casks of Arbor gold, even wines from the fabled east, from Qarth and Yi Ti and Asshai by the Shadow. In the end, Tyrion chose a cask of strongwine marked as the private stock of Lord Runceford Redwyne, the grandfather of the present Lord of the Arbor. The taste of it was languorous and heady on the tongue, the color a purple so dark that it looked almost black in the dim-lit cellar. Tyrion filled a cup, and a flagon for good measure, and carried them up to the gardens to drink beneath those cherry trees he'd seen.

Tyrion I, Dance 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been brooding on the idea for a while now that Myr is symbolically akin to Arbor Gold, but is more indicative of elaborate long-term scheming and deception.

Defiance of Duskendale - Lord Darklyn and his Myrish wife Serala who put him up to it

Basically "pandora's" box arrives at WF with a Myrish lens - send by Lysa Tlly with the message that lies about the murderer of Jon Arryn

Myrish carpet in the whore's room in Solharys - Tyrion observes it looks as comfortable as a lie and then pukes on it

Illyrio has wine of Myr in his cellar - he's selling lies to Tyrion, intends to bring down current dynasty in KL to replace it with likely his own son

Young Griff can talk Myr dialect - he lies about his identity of Young Griff, but even the identity he believes himself might be a lie

Myrish carpet in the room where Davos and Manderly talk - Manderly reveals what lies he served Freys and crown and how the mummer's farce is nearly done

Varys - played in a mummer's troupe of Myr, thieved there, and was cut there

Thoros of Myr - was a false red priest for years, believes it's Rh'lorr's doing who saves Beric

Myrish carpet in Lord Darry's room - Jaime bedded Cersei in that room, and Tyrion discovers hidden away Targ loyalist carpets

And then we have Taena Merrywheather, from Myr, who flees with her hubby from KL after Cersei ends up taken by the Sparrows, and who conspired with her to create lies, but may actually have been playing a double game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I've been brooding on the idea for a while now that Myr is symbolically akin to Arbor Gold, but is more indicative of elaborate long-term scheming and deception.

Defiance of Duskendale - Lord Darklyn and his Myrish wife Serala who put him up to it

Basically "pandora's" box arrives at WF with a Myrish lens - send by Lysa Tlly with the message that lies about the murderer of Jon Arryn

Myrish carpet in the whore's room in Solharys - Tyrion observes it looks as comfortable as a lie and then pukes on it

Illyrio has wine of Myr in his cellar - he's selling lies to Tyrion, intends to bring down current dynasty in KL to replace it with likely his own son

Young Griff can talk Myr dialect - he lies about his identity of Young Griff, but even the identity he believes himself might be a lie

Myrish carpet in the room where Davos and Manderly talk - Manderly reveals what lies he served Freys and crown and how the mummer's farce is nearly done

Varys - played in a mummer's troupe of Myr, thieved there, and was cut there

Thoros of Myr - was a false red priest for years, believes it's Rh'lorr's doing who saves Beric

Myrish carpet in Lord Darry's room - Jaime bedded Cersei in that room, and Tyrion discovers hidden away Targ loyalist carpets

And then we have Taena Merrywheather, from Myr, who flees with her hubby from KL after Cersei ends up taken by the Sparrows, and who conspired with her to create lies, but may actually have been playing a double game

Myranda Royce tells Sansa to call her Randa, leaving out the full "Myr."  Maybe she's going to be honest with Sansa and a true friend? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It  would not surprise me , the 'FRIENDS  IN  THE REACH ' is the entire Reach royalty .Proof ? None , Just a hunch .In ADwD ; Epilogue Kevan Lannister remarked about the Tyrells and the Highgardens they followed Aerys to the bitter end  and well beyond . And would account for Margaery's moon tea ,If you want your daughter to marry the Targaryen heir she must be virginal .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, if House Merryweather is on team Aegon, then apparently, so is Ser Bonnifer Hasty and his holy hundred...

Quote

Jaime could not be certain who had convinced his sister that Ser Bonifer should be named castellan of Harrenhal, but the appointment smelled of Orton Merryweather. Hasty had once served Merryweather’s grandsire, he seemed to recall dimly.

Jaime III, Feast 27

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taena is indeed suspicious. Her name sounds like a Targ woman name. Maybe she has a drop of dragon blood from some Blackfyre or even daughter of Jaeherys who opened a brothel in Essos. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BryndenBfish made a good argument that Taena works for Varys she is kind of a doble agent

https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2014/11/21/the-agents-of-chaos-spies-spymasters-and-their-tradecraft-in-westeros-part-1-the-myrish-femme-fatale/

 

I doubt the reason is that she has targaryen blood. No need to complicate matters further. I think she just wants to recover her husbands family lands.

 

There is also the theory that her son is one of roberts bastards (i like that one though the evidence is a bit lacking)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×