Similarities between Others and Valyrians

[Adam Targaryen]

When I watched GoT for the first time (I still haven't read the books, though I have looked up a lot of things online - for example on AWOIAF - and would consider myself far more educated than the average showpleb) I realized that the Others were quite similar to the Valyrians. Think about it: Both the Others and Valyrians are said to have an otherworldly beauty, light skin, extremely fair hair, a strong connection to magic and temperature/elements... I know that the Others are somewhat different in the books but I don't think it's a stretch to say that they'd have icy white/silvery white hair like the Valyrians. I have written a big collection of theories on my own, and they are all based on the hypothesis that the Valyrians and Others are polar opposites and the subjects of R'hllor and The Great Other(in my book called "H'dhor" in accordance with the Hodor theory), respectively. It's really weird to me that this isn't a more widespread idea. So what do you guys think? Two elemental Gods, each with their own supernatural race of subjects, warring with one another? Sounds like a song of ice and fire to me.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Actually the Others, when shirtless look like frozen Valyrian/Dothraki cross-breeds. Especially on horseback.

[Lord Ravenstark]

Others are non-human, Valyrians are just extremely racist and egocentric humans.

[Adam Targaryen]

Others are non-human, Valyrians are just extremely racist and egocentric humans.

The Valyrians have a strong magical connection to fire and dragons, and therefore I wouldn't consider them "normal" humans.

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

I've got a theory that just as Valyrians are humans crossed with dragon genes, the Others are humans crossed with ice dragon genes.

[Lord Ravenstark]

The Valyrians have a strong magical connection to fire and dragons, and therefore I wouldn't consider them "normal" humans.

Their magic is a cultural aspect, much like Asshai'i. The Rhoynar had special connection to water, and yet they are not melting Others. The Northmen hold the closest to a god in the world of ice and fire, and are deeply connected to winter and ice, even though centuries of Andalicization made them forget a bit. The Valyrians are not really unique in that aspect.

[Moiraine Sedai]

When I watched GoT for the first time (I still haven't read the books, though I have looked up a lot of things online - for example on AWOIAF - and would consider myself far more educated than the average showpleb) I realized that the Others were quite similar to the Valyrians. Think about it: Both the Others and Valyrians are said to have an otherworldly beauty, light skin, extremely fair hair, a strong connection to magic and temperature/elements... I know that the Others are somewhat different in the books but I don't think it's a stretch to say that they'd have icy white/silvery white hair like the Valyrians. I have written a big collection of theories on my own, and they are all based on the hypothesis that the Valyrians and Others are polar opposites and the subjects of R'hllor and The Great Other(in my book called "H'dhor" in accordance with the Hodor theory), respectively. It's really weird to me that this isn't a more widespread idea. So what do you guys think? Two elemental Gods, each with their own supernatural race of subjects, warring with one another? Sounds like a song of ice and fire to me.

The Valyrians are just superhumans.  Humans with superior genetics through controlled reproduction.  Nevertheless, still very much human.  They eat, sleep, breathe, burp, and make lurv.   The Others not humans.  GRRM said they are a very different, very dangerous form of life. 

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

 

Their magic is a cultural aspect, much like Asshai'i. The Rhoynar had special connection to water, and yet they are not melting Others. The Northmen hold the closest to a god in the world of ice and fire, and are deeply connected to winter and ice, even though centuries of Andalicization made them forget a bit. The Valyrians are not really unique in that aspect.

The Rhoynish don't occasionally pop out half-turtle babies. The Northmen don't occasionally pop out half-CotF or half-Other babies.

[purple-eyes]

Valyrian are still normal human beings. 

Others and children of forests are different species. 

Valyrian had magic related to dragon. 

Rhoyna had magic with water. 

First men had magic with warging. 

But they are all human beings. 

I do wish to see those water wizards which can kill dragons. 

Technically, water and fire are more symmetric elements. 

 

[Lord Greenhood]

GRRM inspirations for the Valyrians are based on Albinism. As albinos have lighter skin tone and violet eyes as well as white hair but I suppose that generations of environmental factors and same race sex and inbreeding has changed the hair to silver. There has obviously never been an albino race of humans on earth but I don't think it could have been impossible. So no I don't think the white walkers are a lost tribe of Valyrians.

[TeamWhiteWalkerz]

The Valyrians have a strong magical connection to fire and dragons, and therefore I wouldn't consider them "normal" humans.

Dragons. Only dragons, through blood magic. Valyrians are not related to fire. The Targaryens only are related to fire and even then its more symbolic, for the readers, then anything in world.

[RobertRivers]

I've had a somewhat similar thought, but I consider the demons on the demon road to be the valyrian or fire parrelel of others. Dragons fit in this too bit I don't know to what degree.

I always considered others to look like humans or aliens, thanks to the wiki page.

[RobertRivers]

 

Dragons. Only dragons, through blood magic. Valyrians are not related to fire. The Targaryens only are related to fire and even then its more symbolic, for the readers, then anything in world.

 

What is your proof that it is only Targaryen that are related to fire, even if it is symbolically? 

I agree that the relation is more symbolic than physical, but valryia was built on/ near a volcano and they weren't the only dragonlords around. If the other dragons spewed lightning, earth, water and ice, I would agree to a degree(targs wouldn't be the only ones with Fdragons).

[Kaibaman]

The Others can only be killed by obsidian or Valyrian Steel and when they die their bodies shatter like ice, the Valyrians on the other hand despite seemingly tolerant of heat and fire are still as human as any other and can die just the same. 

[Adam Targaryen]

The Valyrians are just superhumans.  Humans with superior genetics through controlled reproduction.  Nevertheless, still very much human.  They eat, sleep, breathe, burp, and make lurv.   The Others not humans.  GRRM said they are a very different, very dangerous form of life. 

The Others can only be killed by obsidian or Valyrian Steel and when they die their bodies shatter like ice, the Valyrians on the other hand despite seemingly tolerant of heat and fire are still as human as any other and can die just the same. 

I agree that the Valyrians are far, far more human-like than the Others are, but I still think they might not be completely human. One of my theories is that from the beginning there was a race of proto-Valyrians who inhabited the Valyrian peninsula. They were normal humans and closely related to the Andals, with golden blonde hair and blue eyes. Then, at the same time as The Great Other created the first Others in some way, R'hllor decided to create his own race. He either

1. created a race of fire-resistant, tall, beautiful, silvery-white-haired and red-eyed humanoids who later interbred with the proto-Valyrians and then became sort of a mix. (Blue eyes + red eyes = purple eyes. Golden hair + silvery-white hair = silver-golden hair)

or

2. interbred with the proto-Valyrians himself (by for example magically fertilizing the women, like God did with the Virgin Mary in the Bible) and thereby created the race that would become the Valyrians.

 

In any case, the magical fire-resistance and other genetic factors were diluted and after a while the Valyrians weren't fire-resistant anymore but they still had somewhat magical properties, they were still quite pale, etc. Hence, the Valyrians once were much more powerful and magical, but by genetic dilution they became more like normal humans. The Others, on the other hand, stayed the same as they had no contact with humans.

[FreyPiesForSkagos]

 

 

I agree that the Valyrians are far, far more human-like than the Others are, but I still think they might not be completely human. One of my theories is that from the beginning there was a race of proto-Valyrians who inhabited the Valyrian peninsula. They were normal humans and closely related to the Andals, with golden blonde hair and blue eyes. Then, at the same time as The Great Other created the first Others in some way, R'hllor decided to create his own race. He either

1. created a race of fire-resistant, tall, beautiful, silvery-white-haired and red-eyed humanoids who later interbred with the proto-Valyrians and then became sort of a mix. (Blue eyes + red eyes = purple eyes. Golden hair + silvery-white hair = silver-golden hair)

or

2. interbred with the proto-Valyrians himself (by for example magically fertilizing the women, like God did with the Virgin Mary in the Bible) and thereby created the race that would become the Valyrians.

 

In any case, the magical fire-resistance and other genetic factors were diluted and after a while the Valyrians weren't fire-resistant anymore but they still had somewhat magical properties, they were still quite pale, etc. Hence, the Valyrians once were much more powerful and magical, but by genetic dilution they became more like normal humans. The Others, on the other hand, stayed the same as they had no contact with humans.

I don't think R'hllor and The Great Other are real. There might be some truth at the core of either, but I refuse to believe that the red priests are basically right about the state of affairs and everybody else is wrong. That would not be like GRRM and it would also be really frustrating.

[Adam Targaryen]

I've had a somewhat similar thought, but I consider the demons on the demon road to be the valyrian or fire parrelel of others. Dragons fit in this too bit I don't know to what degree.

I always considered others to look like humans or aliens, thanks to the wiki page.

Interesting thought. I like it. What if the Others also had a huge empire/civilization a long long time ago and then some great Doom struck them and that's why they're the way they are? That would mean that the Valyrian fire demons could start to spread over Essos and start killing people to recruit an army, just like the Others.

 

BTW, the reason I think the Valyrians are more than human is that without them the Others have no worthy counterpart, and since it's called the song of ice and fire there should be an even battle between ice and fire. I know, I know, the title most likely only refers to R+L=J, but a man can dream. Besides, a man thinks that the Starks aren't really ice in the same way the Targs are fire, so he considers the title being unsatisfactory without a huge battle between two polar opposites.

[Adam Targaryen]

I don't think R'hllor and The Great Other are real. There might be some truth at the core of either, but I refuse to believe that the red priests are basically right about the state of affairs and everybody else is wrong. That would not be like GRRM and it would also be really frustrating.

I totally understand what you mean but just because R'hllor and The Great Other exist, it doesn't mean that the other Gods don't. They might just be less powerful

[LmL]

Dragons. Only dragons, through blood magic. Valyrians are not related to fire. The Targaryens only are related to fire and even then its more symbolic, for the readers, then anything in world.

"All Valyrian sorcery was rooted in blood or fire," says Marwyn the Mage. So yeah. Fire and blood. Dany walked into a fire to wake the dragons... as she performed blood magic. The dragonbinder horn says "blood for fire, fire for blood." Lightbringer itself was coated in blood and lit on fire. It's a running theme - "fire and blood." You may have noticed these words appearing together a few times.

[LmL]

Interesting thought. I like it. What if the Others also had a huge empire/civilization a long long time ago and then some great Doom struck them and that's why they're the way they are? That would mean that the Valyrian fire demons could start to spread over Essos and start killing people to recruit an army, just like the Others.

 

BTW, the reason I think the Valyrians are more than human is that without them the Others have no worthy counterpart, and since it's called the song of ice and fire there should be an even battle between ice and fire. I know, I know, the title most likely only refers to R+L=J, but a man can dream. Besides, a man thinks that the Starks aren't really ice in the same way the Targs are fire, so he considers the title being unsatisfactory without a huge battle between two polar opposites.

You need to think about Lord Beric and Melisandre. Both are transformed through magic into beings of fire, to some extent. Mel has "the fire inside her, transforming and searing" her, and she doesn't need to sleep hardly at all, and does not need to eat. She bleeds black blood. I think she is on the way to becoming a fiery version of the Night's Queen, who seems to have been creating Others with the Night's King. Try reading my buddy Durran Durrandon's essay about Mel and the Night's Queen... and you should try reading the books too. You might find some clues in there.