The Kight of the Laughing Tree was Eddard

[watcher of the night]

I just don't understand why people believe the impossible (Ned is not slight and wouldn't use a disguise) rather than the highly improbable (Lyanna, not likely but possible). Can someone please explain why they prefer an impossible solution to a mystery?

Actually I think it was Howland Reed with the help of Ed.

[purple-eyes]

Being mistaken for a boy is an Arya thing, not a Lyanna thing. Unless you have any single quote of Lyanna ever being mistaken as a boy? Lyanna is more like the mergence of Arya and Sansa. She liked swords... but she still dressed and looked unmistakably feminine.

"(lyanna) by all accounts a wild and boyish little thing”

right there in the book. The world of ice and fire. 

So yeah, she looks boyish and wild, neither of these terms is feminine. 

You may need to find some quotes to prove she is feminine. 

Yes, people said she is beautiful, but beautiful is not necessarily same as feminine. How many men were called beautiful? 

 

 

[Kienn]

Does the world book even mention her beauty? If not it's just some of the blatant Lannister toadying that's in that book. If it does, likely just slightly more subtle toadying.

 

Boyish is also different from looking like a boy.

[purple-eyes]

Does the world book even mention her beauty? If not it's just some of the blatant Lannister toadying that's in that book. If it does, likely just slightly more subtle toadying.

 

Boyish is also different from looking like a boy.

it is not from lannister or even yandel. 

Seymon Staunton the master of law in the court said so to aerys. " by all accounts lyanna is a wild and boyish little thing without any of Elia's delicate beauty". And many people saw lyanna there. At least aerys. 

If lyanna is not wild or boyish, these words would not be useful at all. 

Nobody would say: Elizabeth taylor by all accounts is a plain and ugly woman. No matter how you want to be toady, you have to have some truth on these obvious thing which Every man can see from their eyes. 

So lyanna is surely wild and boyish. 

 

[Kienn]

Oh that's even worse then. Tons of people definitely blatantly lied to Aerys' face. 

[ofgs]

Why would Eddard "I've got so much integrity it's going to kill me" Stark behave in such an underhand fashion?

Theory is false.

 

[ofgs]

She liked swords... but she still dressed and looked unmistakably feminine.

Unless you can pull some quotes referencing Lyanna's outfits... you're describing Dacey Mormont not Lyanna Stark.

Also how could Lyanna STARK be the 'mergence' of Arya and Sansa when Sansa takes after Catelyn TULLY?

[purple-eyes]

Oh that's even worse then. Tons of people definitely blatantly lied to Aerys' face. 

aerys is mad but not blind. 

He liked pretty women by all accounts. If lyanna is indeed feminine and not wild or boyish, why would he believe them? 

I can lie to myself to say elizabeth taylor is not as beautiful as me, but even myself know this is lie. 

 

[purple-eyes]

Unless you can pull some quotes referencing Lyanna's outfits... you're describing Dacey Mormont not Lyanna Stark.

Also how could Lyanna STARK be the 'mergence' of Arya and Sansa when Sansa takes after Catelyn TULLY?

there is quote that she is wild and boyish even at the tourney. 

Also you have to dress more like a man to do fighting and riding stuff. 

Sansa had her mother's hair and eye, which does not mean she does not have Ned's feature. 

By this logic, all valyrian people must look like same person. Hair and eye color can not represent your whole look. 

[King of the Narrow Sea]

 

Yawn...

 

 

Don't forget Waymar Royce (who happens to be the same age Eddard was at Harrenhal), who's family has blood ties to the Starks

Ser Waymar Royce was the youngest son of an ancient house with too many heirs. He was a handsome youth of eighteen, grey-eyed and graceful and slender as a knife. Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather. Ser Waymar had been a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch for less than half a year, but no one could say he had not prepared for his vocation. At least insofar as his wardrobe was concerned.

As well as the Lyn Corbray, who's very recent ancestor was married to a Stark and is described almost exactly the same

He bowed deeply and took a moment to glance around the hall. Lady Arryn had summoned her knights and retainers to hear his confession, as he had hoped. He saw Ser Brynden Tully's craggy face and Lord Nestor Royce's bluff one. Beside Nestor stood a younger man with fierce black sidewhiskers who could only be his heir, Ser Albar. Most of the principal houses of the Vale were represented. Tyrion noted Ser Lyn Corbray, slender as a sword, Lord Hunter with his gouty legs, the widowed Lady Waynwood surrounded by her sons. Others sported sigils he did not know; broken lance, green viper, burning tower, winged chalice.

And Benjen Stark, Ned's own brother, is very thin

His uncle was sharp-featured and gaunt as a mountain crag, but there was always a hint of laughter in his blue-grey eyes. He dressed in black, as befitted a man of the Night's Watch. Tonight it was rich black velvet, with high leather boots and a wide belt with a silver buckle. A heavy silver chain was looped round his neck. Benjen watched Ghost with amusement as he ate his onion. "A very quiet wolf," he observed.

Starks are slender. Doesn't narrow things down to Eddard specifically being the knight, but it does mean that he wasn't too big not to be the knight as he'd have been slender, especially at 18.

The current Starks only aren't slender now because they look like the robust Tullys. Jon and Arya, who both look like Starks, are small and slender.

[Kienn]

aerys is mad but not blind. 

He liked pretty women by all accounts. If lyanna is indeed feminine and not wild or boyish, why would he believe them? 

I can lie to myself to say elizabeth taylor is not as beautiful as me, but even myself know this is lie. 

In skimming GoT I saw more than a dozen references to Lyanna's beauty, and zero of her "boyishness".

Lyanna was beautiful,” Arya said, startled. Everybody said so. 

I also read the rest of your quote in context and it was quite clearly toadying to Mad Aerys. One of the people trying to wedge Aerys and Rhaegar apart. Even the next paragraph throws Staunton's words under the bus.

Also how could Lyanna STARK be the 'mergence' of Arya and Sansa when Sansa takes after Catelyn TULLY?

Here:

My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done.

He could still hear Sansa pleading, as Lyanna had pleaded once. 

 

[John Doe]

Lyanna wasn't even trained, how could she be tkotlt?

[purple-eyes]

 

In skimming GoT I saw more than a dozen references to Lyanna's beauty, and zero of her "boyishness".

I also read the rest of your quote in context and it was quite clearly toadying to Mad Aerys. One of the people trying to wedge Aerys and Rhaegar apart. Even the next paragraph throws Staunton's words under the bus.

 

I think you miss my point. "wild and boyish" can be beautiful too. 

Kevan said she has a wild beauty, and also many many men and boys were called beautiful. I think I do need to make example for you. 

even today, many supermodels look quite neutral and boyish. 

I am just saying she is indeed "wild and boyish".

About Seymen's words, if you want to be toady, you need to at least firstly say something people can agree. 

How Lyanna's face looks like is an obvious question to people who have seen her, if he lied on this, who would believe his other words?

for example, if he said: Brienne of Tarth (just an example) is the most beautiful woman in the trouney, why would rhaegar crown Lyanna instead of her? his purpose must be to ally with house Stark!

who is going to believe this (even he is toady)?

And the next sentence is to say, if this is an action to make ally with house stark, why would Brandon and Ned be angry?

this is not used to deny the "by all accounts lyanna is wild and boyish little thing" part. 

this is to say, if we buy the theory that house stark is making ally with rhaegar, then why brandon and ned are angry?

This in fact proves that Seymen was not lying about Lyanna's style, then his toading has some merits, but it contradicted with the real response of house stark. 

I hope I made it clear. 

To me, it seems that Lyanna is wild and boyish and little, seymen even said "by all accounts", not "in my humble opinion"

So everybody has the same feeling towards her, including Kevan who was there at the tourney. 

 

 

 

[Kienn]

I think you miss my point. "wild and boyish" can be beautiful too. 

Kevan said she has a wild beauty, and also many many men and boys were called beautiful. I think I do need to make example for you. 

even today, many supermodels look quite neutral and boyish. 

I am just saying she is indeed "wild and boyish".

About Seymen's words, if you want to be toady, you need to at least firstly say something people can agree. 

How Lyanna's face looks like is an obvious question to people who have seen her, if he lied on this, who would believe his other words?

for example, if he said: Brienne of Tarth (just an example) is the most beautiful woman in the trouney, why would rhaegar crown Lyanna instead of her? his purpose must be to ally with house Stark!

who is going to believe this (even he is toady)?

And the next sentence is to say, if this is an action to make ally with house stark, why would Brandon and Ned be angry?

this is not used to deny the "by all accounts lyanna is wild and boyish little thing" part. 

this is to say, if we buy the theory that house stark is making ally with rhaegar, then why brandon and ned are angry?

This in fact proves that Seymen was not lying about Lyanna's style, then his toading has some merits, but it contradicted with the real response of house stark. 

I hope I made it clear. 

To me, it seems that Lyanna is wild and boyish and little, seymen even said "by all accounts", not "in my humble opinion"

So everybody has the same feeling towards her, including Kevan who was there at the tourney. 

 

 

 

No I don't really see what you're trying to argue.

His "by all accounts" is directly contradicted by the text... all accounts hold her as beautiful, whereas he says she has no beauty. He claims Rhaegar's motives are to gain Stark allegiance against Aerys. Toadies need not say things believable when they are at the hand of a paranoid lunatic - they need only to say things that play into that paranoia. That's exactly what Staunton does.

[purple-eyes]

No I don't really see what you're trying to argue.

His "by all accounts" is directly contradicted by the text... all accounts hold her as beautiful, whereas he says she has no beauty. He claims Rhaegar's motives are to gain Stark allegiance against Aerys. Toadies need not say things believable when they are at the hand of a paranoid lunatic - they need only to say things that play into that paranoia. That's exactly what Staunton does.

if you choose to ignore my first several sentences and imagine I am saying that Lyanna is not beautiful, well, then I have nothing else to say. 

Again, for something so simple like "does lyanna stark look wild and boyish", how can he lie to everybody? people have eyes and they can see.

so, If I tell you "Elizabeth taylor is so ugly" because I am trying to be toady on something, then you will just believe me and agree she is ugly?

[The Glad King]

I want it to be Lyanna, but it makes no sense that she would have a boomimg voice. I think that Eddard being TKoTLT is quite interesting though.

[lidsa]

I still think it would be funny if it had been Domeric Bolton.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

I want it to be Lyanna, but it makes no sense that she would have a boomimg voice. I think that Eddard being TKoTLT is quite interesting though.

One can change his/her own voice to some degree (and having your head inside a tin pot helps with that, too). Ever seen a comedy, where a girl tries passing for a boy? They always speak in booming voices.

It would made all the sense in the world for Eddard Stark, son of Lord Rickard Stark of Winterfell, to enter the lists to punish a slight to one of his lord father's bannermen. But it would make very little sense for Ned, especially for Ned ("you were never the boy you were"), for that ridiculous masquerade, and dress up as the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

[Kienn]

I really don't understand the hang up people have with Ned being a mystery knight. It's not underhanded sinister evil...

 

Is Dunk evil for being a mystery knight? Is Barristan? Why would Ned's honor prevent him from doing the same as them?

[Ygrain]

I really don't understand the hang up people have with Ned being a mystery knight. It's not underhanded sinister evil...

Is Dunk evil for being a mystery knight? Is Barristan? Why would Ned's honor prevent him from doing the same as them?

Because Ned was not "short of stature", and if he wanted to teach someone a lesson of honour, he didn't need a disguise to do so.