Veltigar Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Does this air at 9pm est?9 PM GMT if I'm not mistaken. So, that's four PM EST I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 9 PM GMT if I'm not mistaken. So, that's four PM EST I think? Thanks. Did anyone watch tonight's episode? Helena, did you notice that Tuppence Middleton (Riley from Sense8) is Helene Kuragina? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 I'll watch it tomorrow or the day after. So glad that I didn't forget to DVR it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Thanks. Did anyone watch tonight's episode? Helena, did you notice that Tuppence Middleton (Riley from Sense8) is Helene Kuragina?No. I knew she was familiar but not from where. Interesting.Tonights episode I really enjoyed, a lot more than last weeks (although maybe just because I'm starting to understand and follow along better.) ETA; adding spoiler tags to err on the side of caution Thought the battle scene in particular was well done, captured the sense of confusion and hopelessness perfectly. Brief as his appearance was, Napoleon was great. Cool, calm, collected, totally in control.I have to agree with Spockydog that the actor playing Pierre just makes me want to punch him all the time. But, he does a pretty good job portraying the hapless, pushed-to-the-edge Count. Also liked the Sonya-Nikolai relationship, and her idealistic view of love and so on. I'm definitely going to need to rewatch these all together when it's done though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 No. I knew she was familiar but not from where. Interesting.Tonights episode I really enjoyed, a lot more than last weeks (although maybe just because I'm starting to understand and follow along better.) ETA; adding spoiler tags to err on the side of caution Hidden ContentThat's really considerate of you, but this is a spoilerthread, so next time fire away freely I won't drop by until I have seen the episode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 but this is a spoilerthreadFor an adaptation of a novel that came out 147 years ago based on events that happened 204 years ago? I don't know what the statute of limitations on 1) spoilers and 2) history are, but I think we've passed them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Well I was just wary of the fact my post came immediately after Veltigar's where he said he wouldn't watch until tomorrow (well, today now). Plus I've made the opposite mistake before which usually irritates people more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog-days Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Surprised the "want to punch him" comments get directed at Pierre. For my part, my knuckles itch at the sight of Prince Andrei. More or less any Prince Andrei. Agreed that the battle tonight was well done. In the middle of the episode I paused after having problems with my connection speed, and went off to watch the Austerlitz section from the 1966 Bondarchuk War and Peace. Bondarchuk had 12000 soldiers at his disposal and three months, and his version of the battle is spectacular. But it's also rather bloodless and neat. This new adaptation stands up well in comparison; it doesn't have even a fraction of the troop numbers, but it makes up for it by focusing on the human reactions. And Napoleon's (brief) appearance was very good. The cool way he watched the slaughter and then drawled "that's enough". My favourite character tends to be Denisov. I'm sorry we didn't get to see this one dancing the Mazurka with Natasha. Perhaps that's still to come, if they manage to squash it into the next four episodes - if there's room there for anything except plot and events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 I finally managed to see it. Pretty hectic week Really liked this episode. The battle scenes were as good as everyone said they would be. Also a big fan of Napolean, he was really good. And I'll just proof that I don't have an original bone in my body concering this series by agreeing with people's view on Pierre. I really want to slap him. I'm pretty sick of this type of character really. I mean, it's probably not fair on Tolstoj, but I'm just done with the type of character Pierre is. Just for once I would like to see a character in that position react with cool calculation instead of whining and challeging people for a duel. For an adaptation of a novel that came out 147 years ago based on events that happened 204 years ago? I don't know what the statute of limitations on 1) spoilers and 2) history are, but I think we've passed them now.Once the episode airs you are free to spoil away with comparison's of the nights event with the corresponding part of the novel and real history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 You guys are no fun How shall we discuss this if everyone binges Well, luckily for you, I will always be here... I love it so much... The guy playing Bolkonsky is amazing... They go a bit like a hot knife through butter, but that is expected... I really should get back to The American. I think I watched the first season a couple of years back, but it didn't look as interesting as people make it sound here Please don't say things like this. People would think you are mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 For all of you worried about being able to keep the characters straight if you decide to read the book, most editions come with a handy character list in the front material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 Well, luckily for you, I will always be here... I love it so much... The guy playing Bolkonsky is amazing... They go a bit like a hot knife through butter, but that is expected... #always? Too soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 #always? Too soon Too soon BTW, I hate "Game of thrones" comparisons. It seems that these days, some very smart people would compare everything to GoT. From Macbeth, The Last Kingdom and W&P to Outlander and The Shannara Chronicles... The concept of books existing before the anointed show came to existence is a very tough to grasp for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 This time, I did manage to watch it in real time. What an impressive ball scene, so far I have got to say this series does spectacle very well, any scene set on a battlefield or in a ballroom has been gold so far. And Lily James positively glowed, I think she's really good as Natasha. I can see why Prince Andrei and Pierre have her in such high regard. Dolokhov was the mvp of the episode for me though. That duel was a brilliant opener and I particularly liked how - after Pierre's shot took him down - he ate some snow. Such a maddingly brilliant little detail. That has to be straight from the novel right? Really liked all his other scenes as well. Tom Burke is a really good actor. I always thought he and the guy playning Porthos were wasted on BBC's The Musketeers, but at least he's gotten a lot of practice with a sword on that gig, which benefitted him nicely here.I was sadly less convinced by our two male leads. James Norton wasn't given enough to do I admit, but even with that in mind I found him a bit lacking. Like, I have a feeling that Prince Andrei should have been played by a really charismatic actor, who just sucks attention to him even if he isn't doing anything especially special. Someone like Terence Stamp in Far From the Maddening Crowd or Matthew MacFadyen in Pride & Prejudice. With Dano, it's more the way the character is written that bugs me. His acting saves the furniture a bit, especially in the last scene of the episode, but all in all I kind of feel strangely ashamed in his place for him getting so thoroughly emasculated by Tuppence Middleton's character. He's such a pushover and I know there's more going on, that he's trying to be good and all, but it's still infuryating.Also pretty bummed out by the ending. I truly did want more, which is a good sign I think. I'm looking forward to next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 That ball scene was absolutely beautiful. Agree with everything Veltigar said, apart from James Norton. I found him very good, moving from his character's melancholy and grief at the start to his great enthusiasm and adoration of Natasha at the end. It was very well done imo. Eta; wondering how people feel this holds up as an adaptation. Is it doing well in terms of telling the essential story, making cuts only where necessary,changes in approrpiate places etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I am in love... Like, seriously, I spent the last hour giggling like a schoolgirl at Natasha and Andrei... Lily James is really working her magic. She exudes so easily that sort of innocence and excitement Natasha had at the moment. The ball scene was wonderful and it does seem that Lily can work her magic in any ballroom from Downton, over Disneyverse all the way to Moscow. I was sadly less convinced by our two male leads. James Norton wasn't given enough to do I admit, but even with that in mind I found him a bit lacking. Like, I have a feeling that Prince Andrei should have been played by a really charismatic actor, who just sucks attention to him even if he isn't doing anything especially special. Someone like Terence Stamp in Far From the Maddening Crowd or Matthew MacFadyen in Pride & Prejudice. I think this is classic Tolstoy way. His male character can be rather lacking in charisma. And they are usually set with these charismatic, beautiful girls. I think that Norton was a good choice for Bolkonsky and so far, he is hitting all the right notes. You are not supposed to fall for Bolkonsky immediately. He is not type of misunderstood-handsome fellow that draws women so often seen on TV. He is just someone who had a very difficult period of his life and sees love as the light at the end of a very dark road. The sun and flowering was another thing I really like they included. It was quite the homage to Tolstoy who always likes to use these things to emphasize the change.That ball scene was absolutely beautiful. Agree with everything Veltigar said, apart from James Norton. I found him very good, moving from his character's melancholy and grief at the start to his great enthusiasm and adoration of Natasha at the end. It was very well done imo. Helena, just to ask you, throughout this episode, did you recall Countess Grantham and her talk to Mary from Downton Abbey S06E08, when she said...I mean, brilliant careers, rich lives, are seldom led without... just an element of love.When I saw those two dancing, beside the abovementioned giggle, I had this in my head... It is a bit flashier and more colorful and I feel as if they are going through it like a hot knife through butter, and I know that some are annoyed with the incest, but it is not like it is not there. Focus is a bit more on the balls and court drama. And as for cuts, as the visual media, it is quite easy to cut things that writer needs some time to describe. Don't make me start how some things are described and into what details Tolstoy went ETA: Overall, there are some things I would have done differently, but generally for me adaptations differ from time to time and they are always good opportunity for us to see how we can see classics from the current POV. IDK, at the end, I may find many things lacking in terms of Tolstoy's inevitable sociopolitical and psychological aspect of the story, but it is a good ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I don't recall that line, but I'm not too good at keeping which episode is which straight in my head. And thanks for the response about the adaptation. Sounds alright for the most part, and like it isn't taking too many liberties. I would never have expected it to capture all the intricacies that can be present in a novel but glad to hear you think it captures the essentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said: I don't recall that line, but I'm not too good at keeping which episode is which straight in my head. And thanks for the response about the adaptation. Sounds alright for the most part, and like it isn't taking too many liberties. I would never have expected it to capture all the intricacies that can be present in a novel but glad to hear you think it captures the essentials. You don't recall one of Dame Maggie's lines? Where is that evil GoT nun gif when you need it? People are mostly upset about the casting. I know that appearance-like they are different, but this is a deal. Lily James is today's Natasha. Natasha was this darling girl, overwhelmed by the world, in many ways shallow and naive. And from today's perspective, Lily James works perfectly. Yes, she is a bit too beautiful for Natasha, but it should be noted that if we would think of Natasha in modern terms, Lily James would be appropriate. It just speaks how we shifted in certain terms and I am OK with it. Second one is Andrei. Bolkonsky is supposed to be "noble good looking". I would agree that Norton is not perhaps the ideal version of the nobleman, but it again speaks how these things shifted from Tolstoyean era. So far, it is fun ride... I hope that by the end, some things will be missing, but it all depends on the story producers wanted to tell. I do think they are focusing more on the court drama, probably not exploring some other aspects. But, it is their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commodore Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Pros- - Everything looks beautiful and well shot, including the people. - top notch actors Cons - Haven't read the book, but the plot is daytime soap level quality. - Alot of telling the audience how the characters feel, instead of showing it. "I love X. I don't love Y" Especially with Natasha and Pierre, no chemistry at all to justify their professed feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog-days Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 6 hours ago, Commodore said: Pros- - Everything looks beautiful and well shot, including the people. - top notch actors Cons - Haven't read the book, but the plot is daytime soap level quality. - Alot of telling the audience how the characters feel, instead of showing it. "I love X. I don't love Y" Especially with Natasha and Pierre, no chemistry at all to justify their professed feelings. Lol, which daytime soaps do you watch, Commodore? Please let me know so I can add them to my list of things to watch. BBC Radio 4 did a (rather good) dramatization of War and Peace a year or so ago; I've just found a clip of them recording it on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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