Queen Arya Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 There is a theory Willis is gay. Not one I go in for because the writing of letters to a character we know was Bi doesn't IMO point to that character being gay. But there you go. are you serious that people think that? just because he is (was) a friend of oberyn that makes him gay? wow, i never even considered this (and i am a firm believer that the blackfsh is gay)and even if willas is gay... the whole family knew of renly and they still got him and margeary married, so willas being gay is not a problem for mace or the queen of thorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 That and they will also say, "Fuck no I'm not going to burn half my face. What's wrong with you!"Oh, you are making fun of Sandor LOL I am slow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 There are more weird and wonderful theories than we could ever imagine when it comes to ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 are you serious that people think that? just because he is (was) a friend of oberyn that makes him gay? wow, i never even considered this (and i am a firm believer that the blackfsh is gay)and even if willas is gay... the whole family knew of renly and they still got him and margeary married, so willas being gay is not a problem for mace or the queen of thorns. Couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 My theory about why the Tyrells were so eager to betroth Sansa to Willas has something to do with this. Sansa believes the Tyrells wanted her so they could claim Winterfell. But this is fed to her by LF via Dontos and doesn't really make sense. Winterfell is too far from Highgarden for Tyrell forces to effectively claim it, besides it's hard to see what the benefit for them would really be. They are already lords paramount of the Reach and about to marry into the royal family. What do they want with drafty old Winterfell?But what does make sense is this. Tyrells and the Gardeners before them have a history of problematically ambitious bannermen. So wedding their heir to, for example, a Florent, is politically fraught. But Willas wedding someone too un-powerful to be a threat brings them down. Tyrells are still trying to fill Gardener shoes in many ways and they do need prestige--Willas's mother is a Hightower, which is about as much old-house prestige as you can get. But Sansa is perfect: highborn as you could ask for, daughter of another Lord Paramount and a family that goes back to the Age of Heros, but her family is too far away and too decimated to pose any political threat to the Tyrells. Girls like Sansa don't come around all that often. I'm guessing that's why Willas is still single. This is interesting actually and makes sense to me but for the fact that she is the daughter of a perceived traitor, so I suppose the name Stark is not so valuable under Lannister-Tyrell rule although they could be hedging their bets also in case the Lannister/Baratheon whatever got desposed and someone from the North on Stark side became a super player. Oleanna might have engineered this one. It seems to me that they try very hard to ensure they pick the winner. Now, what would be the motivation for Tywin to panic like that. I am sure he had something more in mind than handing over WF to Tyrion. I suppose anything your frenemies want would be better in your hands than theirs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Oh, you are making fun of Sandor LOL I am slow... Well I do make fun of Sandor at times. But not in this particular instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 True. Mind are getting wilder by the second LOLMy theory about why the Tyrells were so eager to betroth Sansa to Willas has something to do with this. Sansa believes the Tyrells wanted her so they could claim Winterfell. But this is fed to her by LF via Dontos and doesn't really make sense. Winterfell is too far from Highgarden for Tyrell forces to effectively claim it, besides it's hard to see what the benefit for them would really be. They are already lords paramount of the Reach and about to marry into the royal family. What do they want with drafty old Winterfell?But what does make sense is this. Tyrells and the Gardeners before them have a history of problematically ambitious bannermen. So wedding their heir to, for example, a Florent, is politically fraught. But Willas wedding someone too un-powerful to be a threat brings them down. Tyrells are still trying to fill Gardener shoes in many ways and they do need prestige--Willas's mother is a Hightower, which is about as much old-house prestige as you can get. But Sansa is perfect: highborn as you could ask for, daughter of another Lord Paramount and a family that goes back to the Age of Heros, but her family is too far away and too decimated to pose any political threat to the Tyrells. Girls like Sansa don't come around all that often. I'm guessing that's why Willas is still single. This is interesting actually and makes sense to me but for the fact that she is the daughter of a perceived traitor, so I suppose the name Stark is not so valuable under Lannister-Tyrell rule although they could be hedging their bets also in case the Lannister/Baratheon whatever got desposed and someone from the North on Stark side became a super player. Oleanna might have engineered this one. It seems to me that they try very hard to ensure they pick the winner. Now, what would be the motivation for Tywin to panic like that. I am sure he had something more in mind than handing over WF to Tyrion. I suppose anything your frenemies want would be better in your hands than theirs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Implying that she'd only be able to get off if the husband dressed as, reminded her of, smelt and tasted like The Hound. Yes, finally the penny dropped. Have spent too much time today amusing myself creating some really far fetched crackpot theories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgana Lannister Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 This is interesting actually and makes sense to me but for the fact that she is the daughter of a perceived traitor, so I suppose the name Stark is not so valuable under Lannister-Tyrell rule although they could be hedging their bets also in case the Lannister/Baratheon whatever got desposed and someone from the North on Stark side became a super player. Oleanna might have engineered this one. It seems to me that they try very hard to ensure they pick the winner. Now, what would be the motivation for Tywin to panic like that. I am sure he had something more in mind than handing over WF to Tyrion. I suppose anything your frenemies want would be better in your hands than theirs...and if LF knew this "true" motive, got her out the way whispering to Tywin so she married Tyrion and then framed him so that she was available again and framed her in a way that too that they could not even marry her to another Lannister after his head got chopped. Hang on but here we add widow of traitor and kingslayer to daughter of traitor; that surely can't be good... unless of course Starks and or Tyrion (said Tyrion not Lannister) supporters won the day and LF could get all the credit from behind closed doors. Of course a certain motivation in plotting this with both Tyrrells and Lannisters was to divide them and also to acquire total control over Sansa, over the Tyrrells too as he would also have Oleanna's potentially fatal secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Arya Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 My theory about why the Tyrells were so eager to betroth Sansa to Willas has something to do with this. Sansa believes the Tyrells wanted her so they could claim Winterfell. But this is fed to her by LF via Dontos and doesn't really make sense. Winterfell is too far from Highgarden for Tyrell forces to effectively claim it, besides it's hard to see what the benefit for them would really be. They are already lords paramount of the Reach and about to marry into the royal family. What do they want with drafty old Winterfell?But what does make sense is this. Tyrells and the Gardeners before them have a history of problematically ambitious bannermen. So wedding their heir to, for example, a Florent, is politically fraught. But Willas wedding someone too un-powerful to be a threat brings them down. Tyrells are still trying to fill Gardener shoes in many ways and they do need prestige--Willas's mother is a Hightower, which is about as much old-house prestige as you can get. But Sansa is perfect: highborn as you could ask for, daughter of another Lord Paramount and a family that goes back to the Age of Heros, but her family is too far away and too decimated to pose any political threat to the Tyrells. Girls like Sansa don't come around all that often. I'm guessing that's why Willas is still single. that is other thing. they all describe mace as dumb but crazy power hungry.... why the reach never tried a match for margeary and joffrey before the death of jon arryn? makes zero sense to me. as i see mace, as soon as he knows he has a daughter he would be trying a match with the throne...... i dont remember being mencioned that they tried before so this really baffles me. i understand the lack of high ladys of similar age for willas but sansa and myrcella are the same age, roughly, why not go for myrcella? or why not put the grudge behind and go for arianne who is close to his age? or even go for sansa but before all the mess?the tyrells took a lot of time with willas but i dont see why. the only thing it makes sense to me is that willas was made by Martin for some important character to marry so he has to stay single for a long time (and the bad leg is his - rather poor - excuse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 that is other thing. they all describe mace as dumb but crazy power hungry.... why the reach never tried a match for margeary and joffrey before the death of jon arryn? makes zero sense to me. Joffrey is 12. There was plenty of time to arrange a marriage and it is possible that Maegary being sent to the capital was as much to ensnare the Prince as it was the King.It is also possible that Mace may have made some kind of suggestion but Robert made it clear that he wanted his son married to Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind Beth the Cat Lady Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 that is other thing. they all describe mace as dumb but crazy power hungry.... why the reach never tried a match for margeary and joffrey before the death of jon arryn? makes zero sense to me. as i see mace, as soon as he knows he has a daughter he would be trying a match with the throne...... i dont remember being mencioned that they tried before so this really baffles me. i understand the lack of high ladys of similar age for willas but sansa and myrcella are the same age, roughly, why not go for myrcella? or why not put the grudge behind and go for arianne who is close to his age? or even go for sansa but before all the mess?the tyrells took a lot of time with willas but i dont see why. the only thing it makes sense to me is that willas was made by Martin for some important character to marry so he has to stay single for a long time (and the bad leg is his - rather poor - excuse)Well there was a plot to use Margery to seduce Robert and get him to set aside Cercei, thought I don't know if Mance was in on that. Other part is that Robert was very quick to propose betrothal of Sansa and Joff. Wonder if he had that in mind for some time and was resisting other matches. Surely lots of lords w/ daughters had been vying for Joff's hand. And re: Willas--he's too old to be suitable for Myrcella, at least in this scenario. One or both sides would have to be more desperate for an age gap that large and a girl that young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Arya Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 the age is not important, imho. they could have a long engagement or they could get married and not consummate until later ( like marg and tommen) robert was a drunk mess but i dont think he would flat out say something like that to mace even before talking to ned. everything related to ned robert seems to be a bit more considerate, imo. i dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind Beth the Cat Lady Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 It is also possible that Mace may have made some kind of suggestion but Robert made it clear that he wanted his son married to Sansa. Great minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Yes it seemed Robert had had Sansa in mind for Joffrey for a long time. In fact I'd go so far as to say that that was the entire reason for the trip north. When you think about it she is literally the perfect match for him from Roberts POV. Super prestigious house, Wardens of the North, daughter of his best friend & niece to his lost beloved. I doubt he had paid much heed to any other high lords requests that he come meet their daughter. And yes The Tyrells be it just Ollenna and Marge or Mace was in on it were attempting to get Robert to put Cersei aside and wed Marge himself. So that explains why she was still unwed. Willas I think should really have been introduced to us as a widdower, because it doesn't make any sense that he is as yet un wed. It would have been no work for him to have recently lost his wife to childbirth or a complication of M/C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Arya Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Well there was a plot to use Margery to seduce Robert and get him to set aside Cercei, thought I don't know if Mance was in on that. Other part is that Robert was very quick to propose betrothal of Sansa and Joff. Wonder if he had that in mind for some time and was resisting other matches. Surely lots of lords w/ daughters had been vying for Joff's hand. but he proposes the match right after seeing sansa. she is beautiful and ned's girl. its enough for him to make his mind fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Arya Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 how old is myrcella in the beginning? i always mess up the ages... sansa is about 12/13, right? i think of myrcella as 10... am i wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weirwoods Eyes Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Sansa is about to turn 14, at the end of ADWD/AFFC time line. Myrcella is 10. Sansa's DOB 286 Myrcella's 290.And the year is currently 300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Wyllas is a no go, as his function in the story concerning Sansa is done. Marg did her job of making the crippled loser look so good to Sansa that she jumped at the chance of marrying some who was sold as such a nice guy!* Once the beans were spilled on that little plan, Tywin rushed to marry her to Tyrion so the Lannisters could control WF and cut the Tyrells off at the Sansa maidenhead pass, so to speak. Once that was done, Wyllas is off the possible future husbands for Sansa list. *Wyllas may indeed be a nice guy, but Marge worked really hard to sell him to Sansa, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Arya Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 ok, so myrcella really is too young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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