The Fresh PtwP Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 LF is so sure Robert Arryn is going to die and it's been mentioned so much that I am pretty convinced SR will live.Not going to delve to much into spoilers but Robin is smarter than I gave him credit for.Here are my big 3 Robert Arryn traits that might funk up LF's plans:1.) Possessiveness of Sansa. "my squires can't have her!" I have a feeling Harry is in for a lord-level cock block2.) Shocking amount of political awareness. The kid saw through HTH in seconds... I was pleasantly surprised reading TWoW chapter3.) Courage. Under Alayne's tutelage SR might actually have the balls to stop the wedding and possibly "stand up" to LF.I cant be the only one who doesn't look at Sweetrobin as a dead man walking. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 LF is so sure Robert Arryn is going to die and it's been mentioned so much that I am pretty convinced SR will live.Not going to delve to much into spoilers but Robin is smarter than I gave him credit for.Here are my big 3 Robert Arryn traits that might funk up LF's plans:1.) Possessiveness of Sansa. "my squires can't have her!" I have a feeling Harry is in for a lord-level cock block2.) Shocking amount of political awareness. The kid saw through HTH in seconds... I was pleasantly surprised reading TWoW chapter3.) Courage. Under Alayne's tutelage SR might actually have the balls to stop the wedding and possibly "stand up" to LF.I cant be the only one who doesn't look at Sweetrobin as a dead man walking. Thoughts? No, you are not. In fact, so many people now are convinced he will survive, that it will come off as a big shock if he just does the "expected" and dies of natural causes.Personally, I think that Littlefinger's plans will be more endangered if SR dies prematurely than him not dying at all. After all, SR is what grants him control over the Vale, and that would last quite some years before he (theoretically) can rule on his own. On the contrary, his influence over HtH would be only indirect (through Sansa) and in constant competition with other, rival influences; HtH is, IMO, his --not yet secured-- plan B to keep the Vale under his control.In that sense, I tend to think that SR's death might serve the plot better, thus making his death more likely than his survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Plans laid like LF laid his in ASOIAF never go as well, planned. I am certain that little fellow will outlive every Stark, Targaryen and Lannister we know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walda Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I'm thinking that his mother's milk had been poisoned, as had he, by Coleman's most probably well meaning but misunderstanding medical aid. Get the kid away from Coleman and wean him off the drugs, and his naturally strong constitution will recover - although he will probably never be completely sane, and I doubt he would ever stand up to Littlefinger, I do think Sansa might be able to use him to outwit Littlefinger and rise in the Vale when it became clear that Harry wasn't her kind of husband, or if she really felt the Vale ought not ally with the Boltons, or the Greyjoys, when Baelish thought they should.I'm even hoping he becomes a Dragon rider. Being a lightweight is useful for flying. Viserys seems matched to him, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fresh PtwP Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 I'm thinking that his mother's milk had been poisoned, as had he, by Coleman's most probably well meaning but misunderstanding medical aid. Get the kid away from Coleman and wean him off the drugs, and his naturally strong constitution will recover - although he will probably never be completely sane, and I doubt he would ever stand up to Littlefinger, I do think Sansa might be able to use him to outwit Littlefinger and rise in the Vale when it became clear that Harry wasn't her kind of husband, or if she really felt the Vale ought not ally with the Boltons, or the Greyjoys, when Baelish thought they should.I'm even hoping he becomes a Dragon rider. Being a lightweight is useful for flying. Viserys seems matched to him, too.I don't think Robert is insane, just really bratty. With Alayne (and tbh LF to an extent) as an influence he's not the same "make the bad man fly" kid we first saw.I feel the ice bridge both Cat and Sansa crossed is important for everyone who crossed it I just dont know how yet. Too many parallels.Other than that vague feeling, Robert's future is open in my mind. Anywhere from dragon-rider to Sansa pawn. Or both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasallmaechtigeJ Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 The thing we should keep in mind here is not so much his own constitution (which is and always will be awful), but rather what LF's longterm goals are. As of yet, he can control the Vale through SR. But when the war ends, he is Lord of Harrenhal. I am assuming that he plans to control the Vale through Sansa while reigning the RL or KL himself, and it remains to be seen whether he can do it more efficiently with her as SR's godmother or HtH's wife. Also, he projects Cat on Sansa, another possibility is that he wants to see her as the Lady of the Vale to further bind her to him. If he wants her as the Lady, SR will die of "natural" causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I like the SR dies before the marriage, or Sansa uses SR to control the Vale as much more likely than the expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Personally, I think that Littlefinger's plans will be more endangered if SR dies prematurely than him not dying at all. After all, SR is what grants him control over the Vale, and that would last quite some years before he (theoretically) can rule on his own. On the contrary, his influence over HtH would be only indirect (through Sansa) and in constant competition with other, rival influences; HtH is, IMO, his --not yet secured-- plan B to keep the Vale under his control.In that sense, I tend to think that SR's death might serve the plot better, thus making his death more likely than his survival.Agreed. SR is a minor in legal need of a regent. LF derives his control over the Vale with SR as the child lord. HtH is an adult already, and at the moment already has a favorite benefactor (Bronze John). A young man in love will not suddenly trust his father-in-law and take him on as his councelor above Bronze John. That takes years. LF plans regarding the betrothal and SR's death implies years (he actually mentions this). So, while LF wants SR dead, he does not want him to die next month. LF's plans can only get truly derailed if SR dies before his time. So, yes, I'm certain SR will die, but it won't be of murder or poisoning, but a stupid freak accident involving a mountain, a snowed in and crushed castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I think Harry has higher chance to die before robin. LF too. Sansa will rule vale through robin, not Harry. Because Harry is an adult, sansa can not rule at all if he is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Well, I am glad that someone sliced that piece of cake *seethes* What a stupidity. What I am saying, is that the two scenarios that are least uncommon seem more probable to me. I do not think there is enough foreshadowing in the Vale for me to choose between those two, but I can say the one who believe Sansa will be a player seem to be basing it on pretty flimsy evidence. Many sight an interview with Ran of this board, who says he lies often to protect what he really knows (see interview on Radio Westeros). What I do believe is that things in the Vale will not play out as LF plans, thus the two scenarios that create problems for him are the quick death of SR, or the Sansa power play (kill SR and blame it on LF, directly or via innuendo). Why do you select one scenario over another of those two? I also see nothing in the thread on the Bronze Yohn Royce pledge to bring down LF. If Sansa gets with Nestor Royce then LF plans get much harder. I think it is a bit too simple to have Sansa simply choose the Royce insurrection and overcome LF, but others do disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternally_Theirs Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 No, I am not talking about you. I am talking about stupid Alayne Stone. As far as she knows, her immediate kin are all dead or lost, and she tries to be complacent in the murder of only kin she has left without even resisting. Stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 No, I am not talking about you. I am talking about stupid Alayne Stone. As far as she knows, her immediate kin are all dead or lost, and she tries to be complacent in the murder of only kin she has left without even resisting. Stupid.Got it, sorry for the assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 LF should look at his own history. Sweetrobin has a lot in common with him (hell, some people think he's actually LF's son) in that both are scrawny, physically weak and hardly warrior material, while dashing Harry is pretty much a mountain Brandon, and they're even fighting for a half-Tully girl who looks like Cat. Brandon got the girl, for a hot minute, but lost everything at the end.So LF's betting on the wrong horse, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 LF should look at his own history. Sweetrobin has a lot in common with him (hell, some people think he's actually LF's son) in that both are scrawny, physically weak and hardly warrior material, while dashing Harry is pretty much a mountain Brandon, and they're even fighting for a half-Tully girl who looks like Cat. Brandon got the girl, for a hot minute, but lost everything at the end.So LF's betting on the wrong horse, I think.This is exactly what I always pictured. Grrm does the whole "people who don't remember their history are doomed to repeat themselves" and I just totally see this happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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