Ramsay in S6

[Khione]

What kind of a showrunner would push one of the most popular characters to the edge of the plot (Sansa stuck in the Vale) or have one of the Big Three disappear for some time (Jon stuck in Ghost)? It's counterproductive.

Of course a showrunner would utilise the fan favourites as much as possible. 

I can only imagine how much D+D hate that they have to go along with the tedious, dragged out Essos arc for Daenerys and would have loved to have Dany in Westeros by season 4 or 5 at the latest. Tyrion already meeting up with her kinda gives you the idea. The show cannot afford to stall like the books, it's just frustrating.

[Le Cygne]

On April 1, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Ser Quork said:

Nonsense.  They got rid of Stannis early so they can give his Winterfell arc to fan favourite Jon Snow just as they got rid of Barristan to give his Hand of the Queen arc to Tyrion.  Pure fan-service - little logic in-world.

Agreed. It's much ado about nothing.

There was nothing sensible or consistent.

Jaime goes to Dorne to do nothing for a season, a raven telling them Myrcella was dead could have replaced that whole thing.

Sansa and Brienne are sent to Winterhell, but Sansa spends the season getting raped in a tower that Brienne spends the season watching, again, the only thing they cared to show of that story could have happened off screen.

Arya spends the season cleaning bodies in Braavos, then kills Trant, in an over the top way that took the focus off Syrio. 

All of that amounts to: Myrcella is dead, Theon and Ramsay's bride escaped, Arya kills Trant. 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

9 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

 

Jaime goes to Dorne to do nothing for a season, a raven telling them Myrcella was dead could have replaced that whole thing.

 

Arya spends the season cleaning bodies in Braavos, then kills Trant, in an over the top way that took the focus off Syrio. 

All of that amounts to: Myrcella is dead, Theon and Ramsay's bride escaped, Arya kills Trant. 

Agreed that really as things stand, Dorne could have been cut altogether. However its likely that it will become more important as time goes on, so establishing it now makes sense. Without Dorne, Jamie wouldn't feature in Season 5 at all. Riverlands is next season, for a variety of reasons, mostly to do with connecting storylines. Moving Jamie to Dorne was actually possibly the best decision of the whole Dorne plotline. 

 

Quote

Sansa and Brienne are sent to Winterhell, but Sansa spends the whole season getting raped in a tower that Brienne spends a whole season watching, again, the only thing they cared to show of that story could have happened off screen.

Well thats nonsense isn't it. Its not worth talking about that if you are going to say things like that.

 

Quote

Arya spends the season cleaning bodies in Braavos, then kills Trant, in an over the top way that took the focus off Syrio. 

She spent scenes learning to clean bodies for a reason. Maybe you didn't pick up on it, I would have thought you'd get it, seeing as you'd read the books. Again your statement is ridiculous.

 

Quote

All of that amounts to: Myrcella is dead, Theon and Ramsay's bride escaped, Arya kills Trant. 

Sigh. As usual.

[Khione]

The 'rape' scene lasts for about 40 seconds. Sansa's screentime in season 5 is 37:25 minutes. Yeah she spends her whole s5 arc getting 'raped' alright.

These pesky facts getting in the way of hatemongering.

 

[Le Cygne]

I had already edited out whole season, in case someone took it literally. But Sansa spent the whole season going to be raped, being raped, and escaping from rape. From the first scene to the last.

It could have happened off screen. Sansa's season. Jaime's season. Arya's season. This is all there was, when you take away all the nothing: Myrcella is dead, Theon and Ramsay's bride escaped, Arya kills Trant. 

Here, this says it all:

 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Just now, Le Cygne said:

I had already edited out whole season, in case someone took it literally. But Sansa spent the whole season going to be raped, being raped, and escaping from rape. From the first scene to the last.

It could have happened off screen.

You are wilfully being ignorant here, its difficult to discuss the issue with you if you don't make sensible statements. 

The rape was offscreen for a start, you never see it. Saying the entire story is about the rape is quite frankly bizarre.

[Le Cygne]

Projection with the insults, don't think people aren't reading those personal remarks and thinking, he's talking about himself.

[Khione]

The scene itself was off screen. D+D could have gone all out and shown the ugly details just like Martin wrote them in his fArya arc. At least they were mindful of the more sensitive people out there.

I can only imagine the outcry if Sansa actually got the whole Jeyne Poole treatment.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

5 minutes ago, Khione said:

The scene itself was off screen. D+D could have gone all out and show the ugly details just like Martin wrote them in his fArya arc. At least they were mindful of the more sensitive people out there.

They could have done what George did with Sansa too, that one time she was raped... Wait, what? Ah, that never happened.

[Khione]

Yeah nothing happens in Sansa's Vale arc in the books, you're right.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

2 minutes ago, Khione said:

Yeah nothing happens in Sansa's Vale arc in the books, you're right.

Well, even If I were to believe that, nothing still beats being raped in ancient home, so yeah...

[Le Cygne]

7 minutes ago, Alayne's Shadow. said:

Well, even If I were to believe that, nothing still beats being raped in ancient home, so yeah...

That's the funny part. That spending a season going to be raped, being raped, and escaping rape, is better than nothing.

No actually, that's worse than nothing. And of course, no one who read the books seriously could say the Vale plot is nothing.

[Khione]

Perhaps they should have cut Sansa out of season 5 altogether, just like they did with Bran. Who'd want to bore themselves to tears watching her babysit Sweetrobin and eat lemoncakes all day long at the Eyrie?

[Rhollo]

12 minutes ago, Khione said:

Perhaps they should have cut Sansa out of season 5 altogether, just like they did with Bran. 

Or just visit the Earye for like 2 or 3 scenes,  where Sansa is shown as being more and more comfortable and confident as the "Lady of the Vale". And use the additional screentime for a better portrayal of the rushed storylines in KL and at the Wall/Stannis.

[Ser Quork]

30 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

Or just visit the Earye for like 2 or 3 scenes,  where Sansa is shown as being more and more comfortable and confident as the "Lady of the Vale". And use the additional screentime for a better portrayal of the rushed storylines in KL and at the Wall/Stannis.

Exactly.

 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

39 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

Or just visit the Earye for like 2 or 3 scenes,  where Sansa is shown as being more and more comfortable and confident as the "Lady of the Vale". And use the additional screentime for a better portrayal of the rushed storylines in KL and at the Wall/Stannis.

And then how do you get Sansa to Winterfell for the beginning of next season. What do you do with Brienne? What is Littlefinger doing? How does Theon escape? Do you introduce a Jeyne Poole? What do you do with her? What is Ramsey doing this whole time.

Its all very well saying 'oh leave her in the vale'.. but it completely misunderstands the reasons WHY she was moved to the Winterfell plot, none of which are to do with her getting raped btw before the idiots move in. It was an adaptation choice made primarily because it helped shape numerous storylines into a streamlined format.

Leaving a major character sitting on her ass for a season simply isn't an option, when she has to be more involved in the story. 

[Rhollo]

55 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

And then how do you get Sansa to Winterfell for the beginning of next season.

With an army of Nothern houses and Vale Lords, please.

55 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

What do you do with Brienne? 

You mean instead of having her look for a candle to get lit for the majority of the season ? Yeah, that was thrilling, wouldn't miss it.
If you wanted her to convenient stumble upon Stannis to kill him she could have been on her way to the wall, looking if any of the Stark girls are with Jon.

55 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

What is Littlefinger doing?

Creating ladder-chaos in King's Landing, just as he did.

55 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

How does Theon escape? Do you introduce a Jeyne Poole? What do you do with her? What is Ramsey doing this whole time.

Cut all of it, didn't have any effects beyond winterfells walls anyway (no additional tensions with the northern lords, no interference with Jons ploline). The less we get of Ramsay, the better.
Or of you absolutely wanted to keep Theons redemption, without introducing additional characters, make Myranda Ramsays abuse victim, that Theon ultimately saves. Or maybe Walda. Or have him find the will to escape all on his own.

There you go, just of the top of my hat I've come up with alternative storylines within minutes. And I am not in any way a professional writer.

Or they could just try to stick to the story a certain professional writer has prepared for them as close as possible.

55 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Leaving a major character sitting on her ass for a season simply isn't an option, when she has to be more involved in the story. 

It was an option with Bran.

[Khione]

What you don't consider in your little alternatives is  budget, time constraints, actors and crew's contracts, 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

56 minutes ago, Rhollo said:

With an army of Nothern houses and Vale Lords, please.

 

When? The end of season 6? So what you are asking for is 2 whole seasons of Sansa sitting it out, wiping noses, eventually turning up.. at the head of an army?! Sure.. that would work!


 

Quote

Creating ladder-chaos in King's Landing, just as he did.

How exactly? Without the Winterfell storyline.. without adding another Harry character LF is another completely forgotten character. 

 

Quote

Cut all of it, didn't have any effects beyond winterfells walls anyway (no additional tensions with the northern lords, no interference with Jons ploline). The less we get of Ramsay, the better.
Or of you absolutely wanted to keep Theons redemption, without introducing additional characters, make Myranda Ramsays abuse victim, that Theon ultimately saves. Or maybe Walda. Or have him find the will to escape all on his own.

Except like or not Ramsey IS a major character. Hes Jons protagonist even in the books after the pink letter, and has already been well established on the show, for a reason. Your suggestion is to cut out Winterfell??? How would that even work??? You know its the home of the Starks right? 
Ok if its Myranda.. what happens to her after Winterfell? She just dies? what? It was all for nothing? It also misses all of the point of bringing Sansa back to Winterfell which is to do with reminding Theon of his betrayal and of his past, which pulls him out of his Reek persona. It also allows Sansa to find out about Bran, an important plot element next season. 


 

Quote

There you go, just of the top of my hat I've come up with alternative storylines within minutes. And I am not in any way a professional writer.

Except there was zero thought put into any of your suggestions about how it affects previous or future seasons, how it affects other plot lines. It basically boiled down to 'make it more book'

 

Quote

Or they could just try to stick to the story a certain professional writer has prepared for them as close as possible.

Except a book isn't a tv show. Its very different and a book doesn't have a limited space and budget and time the way a tv show does. Focusing on the main story and not aimlessly meandering around isnt an option for GoT the way GRRM can do that. Its not like the way he did things was especially sucessful in the books either. 

 

Quote

It was an option with Bran.

Different. 

[ForTheNorth]

So

54 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

When? The end of season 6? So what you are asking for is 2 whole seasons of Sansa sitting it out, wiping noses, eventually turning up.. at the head of an army?! Sure.. that would work!


 

How exactly? Without the Winterfell storyline.. without adding another Harry character LF is another completely forgotten character. 

 

Except like or not Ramsey IS a major character. Hes Jons protagonist even in the books after the pink letter, and has already been well established on the show, for a reason. Your suggestion is to cut out Winterfell??? How would that even work??? You know its the home of the Starks right? 
Ok if its Myranda.. what happens to her after Winterfell? She just dies? what? It was all for nothing? It also misses all of the point of bringing Sansa back to Winterfell which is to do with reminding Theon of his betrayal and of his past, which pulls him out of his Reek persona. It also allows Sansa to find out about Bran, an important plot element next season. 


 

Except there was zero thought put into any of your suggestions about how it affects previous or future seasons, how it affects other plot lines. It basically boiled down to 'make it more book'

 

Except a book isn't a tv show. Its very different and a book doesn't have a limited space and budget and time the way a tv show does. Focusing on the main story and not aimlessly meandering around isnt an option for GoT the way GRRM can do that. Its not like the way he did things was especially sucessful in the books either. 

 

Different. 

So what was the point of Sansas storyline in Winterfell given she has basically ended up back where she started. Not in Winterfell?

Suffice to say you claim Sansas arc in the Vale was weak. Well all you have done is take the Northern storyline which was amazing in the books and turned it into a poor one only saved by Alfie Allen.