Ned's prediction about Arya

[purple-eyes]

I have brought up this somewhere but I think it is worthy for one thread.

So Ned told Arya she would marry a king.

Quote:

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

Her sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king.

No matter how many sons a king has, one of them should become king and this is the most important thing for king and queen.

Usually if you say somebody marry a king, you will naturally say, you will give him a son and this son will be king one day and rule the kingdom, etc.

So this means, Arya will not bear a heir for this king. This king has already an heir.

So I think, Jon marries Dany for political reason and Arya for his personal desire, then Dany dies at childbirth (and reunite with Drogo) and gives Jon an heir.

And this baby will become king someday. Arya can have a lot of sons, but they will be knights, princes, lords, high septon, whatever, but not king.

Or after Dany dies, Jon marries a second wife who is Arya, this is also possible. But I do not think GRRM will do this. If he makes them marry, it has to be a polygamy marriage to increase the drama. And I think this is the "third treason for love". Jon will betray Dany for his love in Arya, because he will introduce a second wife into their marriage. Dany, in this cases as Visenya, would not be very happy I guess, but she loves Jon and also needs his help to save the world, so she accepts it.

 

HBO show changed this to "you will marry a high lord". I think this is because HBO show does not want to do polygamy.

It maybe OK to happen in the book, but for the TV show, this is just not that......proper.

However, it is more important for the story plot that Jon marries Dany, not Arya. So Arya has to be removed from this polygamy marriage.

I guess Arya would marry Gendry who is a combination of Gendry and Edric in the show, the future new lord of Storm's end.

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[Edd Tollett's One Vote]

I'm not sure that Ned's words to Arya were a prediction so much as they were just a father talking to his daughter about her role in society. 

[purple-eyes]

11 minutes ago, Edd Tollett's One Vote said:

I'm not sure that Ned's words to Arya were a prediction so much as they were just a father talking to his daughter about her role in society. 

Yeah, but what he said about Bran sounds like a prediction.

And also the show put too much attention on this quote, it does not sound like a random talk.

[Anythingatall]

Just now, purple-eyes said:

Yeah, but what he said about Bran sounds like a prediction.

And also the show put too much attention on this quote, it does not sound like a random talk.

It's quite important to Arya.  It's about her role in society and her relationship with her adored Father.

[Myself656]

If it is a foreshadowing, its first negated as Arya's fate by the fact that Ned is a doomed authority figure who ends up being wrong about everything before he's killed and then transferred by Arya's rebuttal "No, that's SANSA" thereby correcting the doomed authority figure's false statement.

I think the foreshadowing of Arya as "sewing" (i.e. murdering people on her vengeance list) all through the Winter (i.e. the story) only to die and not be found until spring (i.e. the end of the story) with Needle still frozen between her fingers having never reunited with her family (but presumably performing some final act of great importance that also leads to her death) is a far more likely ending for the Wolf-Blooded girl (particularly when it has been pointed out that being "wolf-blooded" leads you to an early grave as it did with Lyanna and Brandon).

[aryagonnakill#2]

3 minutes ago, Myself656 said:

If it is a foreshadowing, its first negated as Arya's fate by the fact that Ned is a doomed authority figure who ends up being wrong about everything before he's killed and then transferred by Arya's rebuttal "No, that's SANSA" thereby correcting the doomed authority figure's false statement.

I think the foreshadowing of Arya as "sewing" (i.e. murdering people on her vengeance list) all through the Winter (i.e. the story) only to die and not be found until spring (i.e. the end of the story) with Needle still frozen between her fingers having never reunited with her family (but presumably performing some final act of great importance that also leads to her death) is a far more likely ending for the Wolf-Blooded girl (particularly when it has been pointed out that being "wolf-blooded" leads you to an early grave as it did with Lyanna and Brandon).

+1

[Ice Turtle]

3 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

...

Arya marrying Jon after he already has an heir is not improbable and I agree that it is interesting that a king role for her son is not mentioned but another possible explanation is that as they adopt Dornish custom and their firstborn will be a daughter.

 

2 hours ago, Myself656 said:

...

Needlework is not synonym for vengeance murdering, it's simply synonym for fighting. I see this quote brought up in every second Arya thread but people seem to ignore that "all trough" means during the whole of a period of time until the end of it. How long do you expect this winter will last? Thee months? IMO thirty years is more likely. Yes Arya is way too vengeful person, but I think that focusing only on her killing people is ignoring two thirds of her story.  

[Lord Wraith]

3 hours ago, Myself656 said:

If it is a foreshadowing, its first negated as Arya's fate by the fact that Ned is a doomed authority figure who ends up being wrong about everything before he's killed and then transferred by Arya's rebuttal "No, that's SANSA" thereby correcting the doomed authority figure's false statement.

I think the foreshadowing of Arya as "sewing" (i.e. murdering people on her vengeance list) all through the Winter (i.e. the story) only to die and not be found until spring (i.e. the end of the story) with Needle still frozen between her fingers having never reunited with her family (but presumably performing some final act of great importance that also leads to her death) is a far more likely ending for the Wolf-Blooded girl (particularly when it has been pointed out that being "wolf-blooded" leads you to an early grave as it did with Lyanna and Brandon).

Agreed. This she will warg into Big Nyms in the end. She will finally find her pack.

[[Deleted]]

It's an interesting theory, and it seems like something GRRM would do. He seems to love off-hand foreshadowing that, when you go back and read things again, you smile and nod grimly at small details that seemed less important at the time but because much more so after events play out.

This could be one of them, but I'm not sure. Either way, something interesting to watch for as the story unfolds.

[Dolorous22]

I'm very certain Ned was trying to just comfort his daughter but George used the situation to really nail home the fact that Arya just isn't that type of girl. 

[grinny]

It may not belong in this topic, but it always confused me when people in the books talked about "wolf-blooded" and show the generation earlier as an example.

Because Lyanna and Brandon's behavior never stuck me as something very wrong like. It reminds me more of a bitch in heat or an untrained dog.

A wolf would either retreat and keep his pack it off harm's way or go for the kill. And a wolf would growl before the kill. Growling is only communication between the pack. Growing before attacking its dog behavior.

So from the Starks the generation earlier Ned was the one acting must wolf like, when he saw the pack threaded he called the banners and marched the kill the those that is a danger to the pack.

So is GRRM confused about wolf behavior or the characters in the books?

[[Deleted]]

4 minutes ago, grinny said:

It may not belong in this topic, but it always confused me when people in the books talked about "wolf-blooded" and show the generation earlier as an example.

Because Lyanna and Brandon's behavior never stuck me as something very wrong like. It reminds me more of a bitch in heat or an untrained dog.

A wolf would either retreat and keep his pack it off harm's way or go for the kill. And a wolf would growl before the kill. Growling is only communication between the pack. Growing before attacking its dog behavior.

So from the Starks the generation earlier Ned was the one acting must wolf like, when he saw the pack threaded he called the banners and marched the kill the those that is a danger to the pack.

So is GRRM confused about wolf behavior or the characters in the books?

I think it was more to imply a bit wild, strong willed, agressive. You know, like a wolf.

I had a friend who had a wolf/husky hybrid, and it did not behave at all like a typical friendly dog. It was very agressive, unpredictable, and territorial, and always made me feel a bit on edge when I was around it.

To me, that's the way a wolf-blooded person would be.

[Pokeyrod]

I have brought up this somewhere but I think it is worthy for one thread.

So Ned told Arya she would marry a king.

Quote:

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon."

Her sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king.

No matter how many sons a king has, one of them should become king and this is the most important thing for king and queen.

Usually if you say somebody marry a king, you will naturally say, you will give him a son and this son will be king one day and rule the kingdom, etc.

So this means, Arya will not bear a heir for this king. This king has already an heir.

So I think, Jon marries Dany for political reason and Arya for his personal desire, then Dany dies at childbirth (and reunite with Drogo) and gives Jon an heir.

And this baby will become king someday. Arya can have a lot of sons, but they will be knights, princes, lords, high septon, whatever, but not king.

Or after Dany dies, Jon marries a second wife who is Arya, this is also possible. But I do not think GRRM will do this. If he makes them marry, it has to be a polygamy marriage to increase the drama. And I think this is the "third treason for love". Jon will betray Dany for his love in Arya, because he will introduce a second wife into their marriage. Dany, in this cases as Visenya, would not be very happy I guess, but she loves Jon and also needs his help to save the world, so she accepts it.

 

HBO show changed this to "you will marry a high lord". I think this is because HBO show does not want to do polygamy.

It maybe OK to happen in the book, but for the TV show, this is just not that......proper.

However, it is more important for the story plot that Jon marries Dany, not Arya. So Arya has to be removed from this polygamy marriage.

I guess Arya would marry Gendry who is a combination of Gendry and Edric in the show, the future new lord of Storm's end.

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HBO did a whole series called big love about Mormon polygamists. Doubt that's it.

[grinny]

4 minutes ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

I think it was more to imply a bit wild, strong willed, agressive.

You know, like a wolf. I had a friend who had a wolf/husky hybrid, and it did not behave at all like a typical friendly dog. It was very agressive, unpredictable, and territorial, and always made me feel a bit on edge when I was around it.

To me, that's the way a wolf-blooded person would be.

But that's the thing you describe a wolf-hybrid not a wolf. Wolves don't look for a fight if it could be prevented (normal wolves, those that has been in contact with humans as a pup may act different).

And I assume the mum was the husky? Because puppies learn most behavior foundations from there mum in the first couple of weeks.

[[Deleted]]

10 minutes ago, grinny said:

But that's the thing you describe a wolf-hybrid not a wolf. Wolves don't look for a fight if it could be prevented (normal wolves, those that has been in contact with humans as a pup may act different).

And I assume the mum was the husky? Because puppies learn most behavior foundations from there mum in the first couple of weeks.

Wolves are wild animals. Wild animals, by definition, tend to be more unpredicatable, aggressive, and headstrong than domesticated animals. This, by extension, makes them more dangerous. This is true about horses, pigs, cows, and any other wild animal you can think of, including wolves.

The domesitcated dog is decended from wild dogs (and wolves). Each generation was specifically bred and selected for to weed out the wild tendencies.

Coming full circle, this is why I believe "wolf-blooded" means exactly how wild animals act: unpredicatable, aggressive, and headstrong.

[grinny]

1 hour ago, Aegonzo The Great said:

Wolves are wild animals. Wild animals, by definition, tend to be more unpredicatable, aggressive, and headstrong than domesticated animals. This, by extension, makes them more dangerous. This is true about horses, pigs, cows, and any other wild animal you can think of, including wolves.

The domesitcated dog is decended from wild dogs (and wolves). Each generation was specifically bred and selected for to weed out the wild tendencies.

Coming full circle, this is why I believe "wolf-blooded" means exactly how wild animals act: unpredicatable, aggressive, and headstrong.

But the thing, yes they're wild and more shy. And you look at wolves add a human interaction with wolves and dogs. But a human around a wild is a stressful and dangerous situation for the wolf and can't be compared with the behaviour of a dog to whom humans belong to the pack. Lots of dogs are more aggressive than wolves, and be it just that a wolf wouldn't kill for fun like a dog.

[Joan Jett]

"sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king."

I think you're focusing too much on the fact that 'King' isn't listed among the occupations of the future sons. 'Prince' is listed and crowned princes are in line to become king. It doesn't have to say King, but you keep seeing what you want to see.

Same with the people saying the 'You will marry a King' quote actually applies to Sansa. Ned himself told Sansa that she would marry a Lord, not a King. He only said Arya would marry a King. 

"No, that's Sansa."

Just to be logical, at that point in the story Sansa was publicly betrothed to the Prince and was expected by everyone to become queen. So Arya expected Sansa to be queen and not herself. 

It's curious that this exact type of blatant foreshadowing happens to Jon Snow in the second book. Mormont's raven screams 'King' twice. Jon says its directed at Mormont. According to you guys, that means Jon won't be King but Mormont somehow will beyond all reason. Jon's just not that type of guy anyway. Except foreshadowing put in by the author doesn't work that way and I don't know why so many of you are trying to force it to. Arya becoming queen is so terribly hard for you all to imagine that you mentally block any suggestions at it and do mental gymnastics to deny textual hints. 

[grinny]

6 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

"sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king."

I think you're focusing too much on the fact that 'King' isn't listed among the occupations of the future sons. 'Prince' is listed and crowned princes are in line to become king. It doesn't have to say King, but you keep seeing what you want to see.

Same with the people saying the 'You will marry a King' quote actually applies to Sansa. Ned himself told Sansa that she would marry a Lord, not a King. He only said Arya would marry a King. 

"No, that's Sansa."

Just to be logical, at that point in the story Sansa was publicly betrothed to the Prince and was expected by everyone to become queen. So Arya expected Sansa to be queen and not herself. 

It's curious that this exact type of blatant foreshadowing happens to Jon Snow in the second book. Mormont's raven screams 'King' twice. Jon says its directed at Mormont. According to you guys, that means Jon won't be King but Mormont somehow will beyond all reason. Jon's just not that type of guy anyway. Except foreshadowing put in by the author doesn't work that way and I don't know why so many of you are trying to force it to. Arya becoming queen is so terribly hard for you all to imagine that you mentally block any suggestions at it and do mental gymnastics to deny textual hints. 

Or she married the Night's king and becomes his queen and an immortal being would have liked after him.

[sweetsunray]

7 hours ago, Myself656 said:

If it is a foreshadowing, its first negated as Arya's fate by the fact that Ned is a doomed authority figure who ends up being wrong about everything before he's killed and then transferred by Arya's rebuttal "No, that's SANSA" thereby correcting the doomed authority figure's false statement.

I think the foreshadowing of Arya as "sewing" (i.e. murdering people on her vengeance list) all through the Winter (i.e. the story) only to die and not be found until spring (i.e. the end of the story) with Needle still frozen between her fingers having never reunited with her family (but presumably performing some final act of great importance that also leads to her death) is a far more likely ending for the Wolf-Blooded girl (particularly when it has been pointed out that being "wolf-blooded" leads you to an early grave as it did with Lyanna and Brandon).

But by your argument why Arya's fate as stated by Ned won't come about applies on Jon's prediction even more - You know nothing, Jon Snow (several times).

[Meera of Tarth]

17 minutes ago, Joan Jett said:

"sons will be knights, princes, lords and even high Septon. But not king."

I think you're focusing too much on the fact that 'King' isn't listed among the occupations of the future sons. 'Prince' is listed and crowned princes are in line to become king. It doesn't have to say King, but you keep seeing what you want to see.

 

What @purple-eyes says is interesting, second marriage could make sense. She wouldn't have an heir, their sons would be just princes, they would hold that title as brothers of the son from the first marriage.

However, why would only be this line the foreshadowing part? What about Arya's response? If we are going to analyse every word, we can't forget Arya's part.