Puns and Wordplay

[Sandy Clegg]

Happy Holidays all! Was going through a glossary of 18/19th century slang terms and found a selection of items that might shed new light on the usage of some common words and phrases in the books. Who knows, maybe GRRM became aware of these when researching antiquated vocabulary for his world-building, and has craftily used them to bury some double meanings here and there ... or not.  Consider this a late xmas present anyway

https://words.fromoldbooks.org/Grose-VulgarTongue/

• Admiral of the Narrow Seas (which Stannis named Davos)

  One who from drunkenness vomits into the lap of the person sitting opposite to him. Sea phrase.

• Vice Admiral of the Narrow Seas

  A drunken man that pisses under the table into his companions’ shoes. (Looking at you, uncle Keith).

• Bat

  A low whore: so called from moving out like bats in the dusk of the evening.

• Capon

  A castrated cock, also an eunuch.

• Captain Podd

  A celebrated master of a puppet-show, in Ben Johnson’s time, whose name became a common one to signify any of that fraternity.

• Carrots

  Red hair.

• Cat

  A common prostitute. An old cat; a cross old woman.

• Cod

  A cod of money: a good sum of money.

• Dancers

  Stairs.

• Goose

  A tailor’s goose; a smoothing iron used to press down the seams, for which purpose it must be heated

• Grey Beards

  Earthen jugs formerly used in public house for drawing ale: they had the figure of a man with a large beard stamped on them; whence probably they took the name: Dutch earthen jugs, used for smuggling gin on the coasts of Essex and Suffolk, are at this time called grey beards.

• Hob

  a clown.

• Lambskin Men

  The judges: from their robes lined and bordered with ermine.

• Lark

  A boat.

• Lobster

  A nick name for a soldier, from the colour of his clothes. To boil one’s lobster, for a churchman to become a soldier: lobsters, which are of a bluish black, being made red by boiling. "I will not make a lobster kettle of my **** " -  a reply frequently made by the Nymphs of the Point at Portsmouth, when requested by a soldier to grant him a favour.

• Master of the Mint

  A gardener.

• Mud

  A fool, or thick-sculled fellow

• Mummer

  The mouth.

• Nanny House

  A brothel.

• Onion

  A seal (not the animal but the thing that imprints). Onion hunters, a class of young thieves who are on the look out for gentlemen who wear their seals suspended on a ribbon, which they cut, and thus secure the seals or other trinkets suspended to the watch.

• To Peach

  To impeach: called also to blow the gab, squeak, or 'turn stag'. 

• Rook

  A cheat: probably from the thievish disposition of the birds of that name. Also the cant name for a crow used in house-breaking. To rook; to cheat, particularly at play.

• Rose

  Under the rose: privately or secretly. The rose was, it is said, sacred to Harpocrates, the God of silence, and therefore frequently placed in the ceilings of rooms destined for the receiving of guests; implying, that whatever was transacted there, should not be made public.

• Snow

  Linen hung out to dry or bleach. Spice the snow = to steal the linen.

• Squirrel

  A prostitute: because she like that animal, covers her back with her tail.

[Seams]

Wow to this whole list, @Sandy Clegg. I think you must be right that these archaic terms were known to GRRM. This one strikes me as particularly useful:

5 hours ago, Sandy Clegg said:

Master of the Mint

A gardener.

The gardener motif is important to the return of spring and summer, I suspect. Robert bedded a Florent and produced a son. Stannis married a Florent. Renly married and bedded two different Tyrells. These people are all claiming to be the heirs of Highgarden, traditional seat of House Gardener. Then Joffrey takes Renly's Tyrell spouses into his keeping and then Tommen takes them. Sam Tarly is a Florent on his mother's side, I think.

My guess is that, to be an effective king, a "gardener" is needed. 

But none of them is banking (so to speak!) on a master of coin that also counts as a gardener. This might explain why Catelyn so fondly remembers the "flowers in her hair" moment shared with Petyr Baelish in her childhood. He always chews mint and he has been in charge of the mint for the Iron Throne. 

But now he is focused on Sansa (and Sweetrobin). 

And the Manderlys wanted to start up a mint for Robb Stark. So they may be this kind of "gardener," too.

[Sandy Clegg]

3 hours ago, Seams said:

 

My guess is that, to be an effective king, a "gardener" is needed. 

 

I kind of like 'under the rose' as a euphemism for subterfuge or secret goings on. I'm betting that the Tyrells have a bigger and longer game plan than we are aware of.

[Evolett]

On 12/29/2022 at 3:55 PM, Sandy Clegg said:

• Rose

  Under the rose: privately or secretly. The rose was, it is said, sacred to Harpocrates, the God of silence, and therefore frequently placed in the ceilings of rooms destined for the receiving of guests; implying, that whatever was transacted there, should not be made public.

•  

This is my favourite, along with the Master of Mint being a gardener. Regarding the rose, this is in line with my thoughts and inferences on the rose as a symbol, though it may be that not all roses are associated with secrecy or with silence. The golden (yellow) roses of the Tyrells are ominpresent with frequent attention drawn to them. During the Hand's Tourney, Loras throws white roses to random women but gives Sansa a red rose, which she wrongly interprets as a sign of love interest. Blue winter roses are the rarest and most precious of all, they represent something more than just flowers and are the ones most probably associated with secrecy and with silence. 

Harpocrates, God of silence ... the harp in connection with the rose... no coincidence I'm thinking. 

In the Forsaken chapter, pregnant Falia Flowers is tied to the prow of Euron's Silence, her tongue cut out. She mirrors the Silent Sisters of the Seven who are also known as death's handmaidens or the handmaidens of the Stranger. She has seven half-sisters and good-sisters, is Euron's "handmaiden of death," and is probably destined to preside over Euron's "charnal house" of the dead.  But I digress.

A less obvious "rose" is Roose Bolton, also linked to secrecy and silence (his quiet whispery voice that others strain to hear). 

 

On 12/29/2022 at 9:12 PM, Seams said:

And the Manderlys wanted to start up a mint for Robb Stark. So they may be this kind of "gardener," too.

Manderly / Mint being a gardener fits perfectly with the Manderly's past history of being a very prosperous family in the fertile Reach. They also still claim membership in the ancient Order of the Green Hand, founded by the Gardeners. 

 

[Seams]

Horn / Honor

Joramun / Jon maur (Mauer is German for "wall")

Armor / Arm Oro (gold arm)

I am up to ASoS on my current re-read (listening to the audiobooks). There was just a chapter where Jon and Ygritte reach the top of the Wall and Ygritte becomes wistful because Mance never found the Horn of Joramun. The next chapter is a Jaime POV and he is thinking about his phantom hand and his nicknames, irritated that people don't  know why he killed Aerys. 

Just as there is a cluster of chapters where disparate POVs all encounter an example of questionable, eye-of-the-beholder "justice," I think the horn and honor wordplay are encouraging readers to explore that theme. In the Jon POV at the Wall, he is also thinking a lot about his spy mission and whether he has broken his vows in a bad way or a good way. The idea of "Jon Maur" hidden in "Joramun" is a new thought. If it is correct, it could help us to sort out clues about Jon's internal struggle over desertion and keeping his oath.

Similarly, the possibility of an "armor / arm oro" pun would require a variation on the Spanish word "oro,"  meaning gold. This could be useful in decoding Jaime's two suits of armor: white for the king's guard and gold for his Lannister heritage. Of course, he also has a gold arm that is unique in the series. 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

I saw the above comments about gardeners, and it got me thinking.

It’s not surprising that “Gardener” is the House name that’s most strongly associated with green man symbolism and weirwood magic, said to descend from the firstborn son of Garth Greenhand.

But might there be a link between in-story “Gardeners” and how GRRM approaches storytelling?

GRRM is known for constantly describing himself as a gardener:

“I often said that writers are of two types. There is the architect, which is one type. The architect, as if designing a building, lays out the entire novel at a time. He knows how many rooms there will be or what a roof will be made of or how high it will be, or where the plumbing will run and where the electrical outlets will be in its room. All that before he drives the first nail. Everything is there in the blueprint.

And then there's the gardener who digs the hole in the ground, puts in the seed and waters it with his blood and sees what comes up. The gardener knows certain things. He's not completely ignorant. He knows whether he planted an oak tree, or corn, or a cauliflower. He has some idea of the shape but a lot of it depends on the wind and the weather and how much blood he gives it and so forth.

No one is purely an architect or a gardener in terms of a writer, but many writers tend to one side or the other. I'm very much more a gardener.”

I can’t help notice some qualities pertaining to Team Green of Planetos that broadly correspond to the writerly style of gardening. His mention of watering it with blood sure caught my attention.

Also, I’ve just written a comment outlining similarities in Lorathi traditions to greenseeing, and thought about one’s third eye opening in blindness, wandering a dark labyrinth. Perhaps this captures how GRRM’s inspiration comes to him when he’s writing.

Also, more broadly, the modus operandi of building upon what’s already there, on harmonizing existing elements rather than razing them down (even politically, among different factions brought into the fold). This all has a Gardener style to it, does it not?

Then, I thought of the Three Singers at Highgarden. The three weirwoods planted by Garth, often confused for one. I tend to take this to be symbolism for the three magical bloodlines of the story: green, blue, and red. But of course, “singers” also means storytellers.

If Team Green is the Gardener style of singer, are Teams Red and Blue different aspects of architects?

Team Red is about passion and purism, great for razing into rubble, yet Valyrians are also known for their magnificent cities, impressively smooth roads, and intricately patterned black stone structures, which were in fact distinguished from the cruder, more haphazard design of the Hightower’s base, which apparently resembles those Lorathi mazes. Pretty strong architect to gardener style vibes there, I’d say!

There’s a lot we don’t know about Team Blue, but its cold, calculating hive mind seems somewhat reflective of an architect’s mind, like an insect hive, but wrought from delicate ice. Much remains a mystery though, so I can’t say much more.

Anyways, maybe this is all just my own brain farts and not at all related to the story, but consider me thoroughly entertained!

[sweetsunray]

The year of the false spring: might be an allusion to the concept of a "spring break"... all the youth on a rather hedonistic break from everyday life, duty and expectations and end up drunk in each other's beds.

[Evolett]

3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

The year of the false spring: might be an allusion to the concept of a "spring break"... all the youth on a rather hedonistic break from everyday life, duty and expectations and end up drunk in each other's beds.

Hey, sweetsunray, nice to see you back here on the forum

Here's a fun one: there was a thread recently on Elmar Frey and Arya Stark. The title suddenly turned into 
Lamer Frey and Arya Strong right before my eyes. A lame Frey matched up with a strong Stark. Not something that would please Arya!

 

[Sandy Clegg]

On 1/10/2023 at 5:07 PM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Anyways, maybe this is all just my own brain farts and not at all related to the story, but consider me thoroughly entertained!

Even if it is, enough brain farts add up to the compost that one day might crack some of these mysteries, so don't worry about it 

[Evolett]

Another observation on Elmar / Lamer Frey and Arya Stark: it just struck me that both Sansa and Arya are associated with lame partners. Arya is to marry a "lame" Frey, while Sansa is married off to Tyrion who suffers from leg cramps. The Queen of Thorns wants to marry Sansa Willis who is also lame. Sweetrobin is not lame but he's not robust and suffers from spasms (Tyrion also has spasms). I'm not sure if Joff can be included. Physically he's fine though he's a cruel nut-case. I wonder whether Harry the Heir will go lame as a result of a tourney accident. Bran can no longer walk and Ned was badly hurt in the leg, remaining lame until his death. 

There is also Lame Lothar, another Frey, and one instrumental in planning the Red Wedding with Roose Bolton. I'm not sure where this is heading. Why must "strong" Stark women be given to "lame" men, but "strong" Stark males go lame or if they are too "strong" or powerful, be killed by lame men? Could it have to do with winter - Lothar / Other? 

[Seams]

6 hours ago, Evolett said:

Why must "strong" Stark women be given to "lame" men, but "strong" Stark males go lame or if they are too "strong" or powerful, be killed by lame men?

Your strong / lame musings called up a passage I noted in my current re-read:

Quote

No one rested very comfortably that night, knowing that Sandor Clegane was out there in the dark, somewhere close. Arya curled up near the fire, warm and snug, yet sleep would not come. She took out the coin that Jaqen H'ghar had given her and curled her fingers around it as she lay beneath her cloak. It made her feel strong to hold it, remembering how she'd seen the ghost in Harrenhal. She could kill with a whisper then.

ASoS, Arya VII

I was connecting the coin, which bears a head of a faceless man, with the head of Gregor Clegane that will one day be given to House Martell. After his head is removed, Ser Gregor is known as Ser Robert Strong.

In this same chapter, Arya had asked Thoros whether he could revive a man whose head had been cut off. The reader assumes she is thinking of Ned. 

In close juxtaposition with this chapter is a Bran POV where he recalls a conversation with Uncle Benjen:

Quote

The ghost castles, Old Nan had called them. Maester Luwin had once made Bran learn the names of every one of the forts along the Wall. That had been hard; there were nineteen of them all told, though no more than seventeen had ever been manned at any one time. At the feast in honor of King Robert's visit to Winterfell, Bran had recited the names for his uncle Benjen, east to west and then west to east. Benjen Stark had laughed and said, "You know them better than I do, Bran. Perhaps you should be First Ranger. I'll stay here in your place." That was before Bran fell, though. Before he was broken. By the time he'd woken crippled from his sleep, his uncle had gone back to Castle Black.

ASoS, Bran III

I've shared my suspicion that "First Ranger" is wordplay on "fur stranger," and that the Stranger among the gods of the seven is linked in some literary way to the First Ranger. So Benjen seems to be saying that Bran should be the god of death. The passage links to the Arya excerpt in the shared references to the ghost in the largely-ruined castles and possibly, as you point out, in its reference to Bran's crippled state. Since the Stranger is a faceless, hooded apparition, Arya's faceless man coin also connects to this idea of the stranger. 

Another common element is that the previous Arya POV featured the trial-by-combat duel between The Hound and Ser Beric Dondarrion, the Lightning Lord, while the Bran POV features Hodor reacting to thunder and lightning at the Queen's Crown by swinging his sword. Are we supposed to compare Hodor and The Hound in their solo battles against lightning? When The Hound finally departs from the Brotherhood Without Banners, Ser Beric says that Anguy should watch for him and shoot his horse if he turns up again. Of course, we later learn that The Hound's horse is named Stranger. 

I mentioned earlier that the head on the coin that Arya clutches reminds me of Ser Gregor's skull being sent to House Martell. In the Tyrion POV that takes place (I believe) between the Arya and Bran POVs, Prince Oberyn arrives at King's Landing to represent Prince Doran at Joffrey's wedding and on the High Council. GRRM lists many people in Oberyn's entourage who will not be mentioned again in the books:

Quote

"His Grace will be most honored to have the counsel of a warrior as renowned as Prince Oberyn of Dorne," said Tyrion, thinking, This will mean blood in the gutters. "And your noble companions are most welcome as well."

"Permit me to acquaint you with them, my lord of Lannister. Ser Deziel Dalt, of Lemonwood. Lord Tremond Gargalen. Lord Harmen Uller and his brother Ser Ulwyck. Ser Ryon Allyrion and his natural son Ser Daemon Sand, the Bastard of Godsgrace. Lord Dagos Manwoody, his brother Ser Myles, his sons Mors and Dickon. Ser Arron Qorgyle. And never let it be thought that I would neglect the ladies. Myria Jordayne, heir to the Tor. Lady Larra Blackmont, her daughter Jynessa, her son Perros." He raised a slender hand toward a black-haired woman to the rear, beckoning her forward. "And this is Ellaria Sand, mine own paramour."

ASoS, Tyrion V

Any time GRRM gives us a Dayne character, it must be important. (I am still counting Septa Mordane as an unacknowledged giant in the story, even if only on a literary level). This Myria Jordayne is heir to a Tor. While a literal tor is a large, freestanding rock outcropping, I think there could be wordplay here on tower and tor (a gateway) and possibly the German Tür, which means door. The rumors about the demise of Ashara Dayne include a story that she leapt from a tower. Significant because this ties back into the Bran POV at the tower called the Queen's Crown where Hodor had been unable to open a door.

(By the way, have we ever discussed "Ashara" as wordplay on "Sahara"? Could Oberyn's Sand paramour and offspring be linked to the Daynes? Are they all sandy Dornish?) 

What does it all mean? My partial guess is that Bran, Tyrion and Arya are all at turning points. The coins/heads pay passage, the characters pass through doors and/or towers to get to the next reality. They need strength to move forward (to pass through the magic doors) and, oddly, that strength comes from taking someone else's head: Bran is about to get inside of Hodor's head for the first time, Tyrion will advance to Essos when Oberyn kills Gregor, and Arya clutches the coin that will gain her passage on the Titan's Daughter and entree to the House of Black and White. Maybe The Hound is part of this turning point group as well: he loses his coins to the Brotherhood without Banners and he will leave his hound-shaped helmet on "his" grave before becoming the Gravedigger at the Quiet Isle. 

As they ride together from their meeting place back to King's Landing, Oberyn tells Tyrion that he has been in touch with Willas Tyrell and that they share a love of horses and that Willas does not bear a grudge against Oberyn for the injury that occurred in their jousting match. Something about this reminds me of Ser Beric's attitude toward the Hound's victory in their combat: he killed me fair and square. But it also loops in that symbolism of the crippling injury or the crippled man that you have put into the spotlight. I suspect the discussion of Willas counts as the requisite lame man for the Tyrion arc at that point. (They also discuss Prince Doran, who is another crippled man.) 

As far as I can recall, GRRM never refers to jousting competitions as tournaments. He always calls them tourneys. My guess would be that these are turning points, perhaps conflated with journeys. (And this raises a connection to his "a moon's turn" phrase and the passage of time in general.)

Another partial guess about these symbols is that Bran, Tyrion and Arya all think they are going to go one way, but they end up going in another direction. Quaithe's cryptic advice applies to more than just Dany's journey. Tyrion would like to go be the heir to Casterly Rock but he ends up escaping to Essos. He also thinks that Bronn will be his champion but Oberyn steps up instead. Arya would like to go to Winterfell or Riverrun but she ends up going to Essos. Bran has a range of hiding places he would rather go but Jojen has a vision that takes the group to the cave beyond the Wall. Sansa would like to go to Highgarden, but she ends up going to The Fingers and The Eyrie. Joffrey is going to marry Sansa but he weds Margaery instead. (There is also a beheading at his wedding feast, with the dwarf jousting act somehow substituting a melon for a severed head.) 

I realize this is all more literary analysis than puns and wordplay, but this thread seems to have evolved. I think we can't sort out the literary analysis without uncovering the wordplay and vice versa. 

[Sandy Clegg]

7 hours ago, Seams said:

I've shared my suspicion that "First Ranger" is wordplay on "fur stranger," and that the Stranger among the gods of the seven is linked in some literary way to the First Ranger.

Well this stood out for me most of all here. Another big one that I somehow missed! 

I feel that this thread could do with a little more precision when it comes to describing examples of wordplay, as GRRM seems to employ a variety of techniques, so I'll just say a bit more about the "fur stranger" example above.

This is a nice example of what is called a 'Mondegreen' and is often found in things like misheard lyrics. For example, "'Scuse me, while I kiss the sky" in All Around the Watchtower sounds to many people like "'Scuse me, while I kiss this guy." The end of one word is mistaken for the beginning of the next, etc. 

The term 'mondegreen' has a cute origin actually (from Wikipedia): 

Quote

The American writer Sylvia Wright coined the term in 1954, recalling a childhood memory of her mother reading the Scottish ballad "The Bonny Earl of Murray"..., and mishearing the words "layd him on the green" as "Lady Mondegreen".

I found a few other mondegreens in ASOIAF (or potential mondegreens). Some are relatively simple and depend on simply moving one letter from the end of one word to the start of another, e.g.

Quote

"Does it rain in hell, I wonder? Perhaps Craster would like a nice hat instead."

- Dolorous Edd, ACOK

a nice hat / an ICE HAT. Symbolically wearing an 'ice hat' would align Craster with the Others (which is very likely, as he gives his sons to them).

Dolorous Edd is a good source for these types of things. Actually, Tormund has a few too, but I need to go back to my notes to find them. GRRM does like to fit wordplay clues into the dialogue of humorous characters like these, I've noticed. It's his way of flagging up that something 'outside the text' might be going on. 

First Ranger / Fur Stranger is a biggie, though. Great find!

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Sandy Clegg

[Evolett]

17 hours ago, Seams said:

I was connecting the coin, which bears a head of a faceless man, with the head of Gregor Clegane that will one day be given to House Martell. After his head is removed, Ser Gregor is known as Ser Robert Strong.

Arya's coin is closely related to the obol paid to the ferryman who carries souls across the river to Hades and I'm thinking facelessness and or gilded heads are tied to this concept. Arya's iron coin gives her access to the temple of death of the faceless cult, to the Otherworld. In fact, it's a two way street. She can come and go as required. Ser Gregor returned from death himself, mediated by Qyburn. It's unclear if Qyburn could perform this feat several times over, like Thoros does or the Others do (which seems to be important). His gilded skull connects to Bittersteel's gilded skull and his claim that he will one day return to Westeros. Bitttersteel is dead but he and his death mask have finally returned, symbolic of a return from death. In contrast to Arya's coin and Thoros magic that allow a coming and going, Bittersteel's return seems to be a one-time affair. Perhaps going to and fro between the world of the living and the dead requires a certain kind of strength, hence the "strong" references.

Qyburn is a sort of ferryman because he facilitated Gregor's return. This had me speculating on Arya also encountering a "ferryman" or perhaps even meeting several ferrymen during her journey to the HoBaW. Jaqen as the giver of the coin is "faceless" and may be the symbolic ferryman, one that personally pays for her passage. Perhaps so does the guy who rows her to the HoBaW. But I think Sandor is one of her main ferrymen as well. This possible link came to me after pondering the "fur stranger" wordplay.

17 hours ago, Seams said:

I've shared my suspicion that "First Ranger" is wordplay on "fur stranger," and that the Stranger among the gods of the seven is linked in some literary way to the First Ranger.

 I think a "fur stranger" / First Ranger may be a psychopomp figure. Sandor is "half faceless" because of the fire scarring to his face. He replaces his own face (rather like the faceless men) with a hound's face (an animal with fur) and rides a horse named Stranger. So Sandor could be a symbolic "furry stranger." The combat between Beric and Sandor could represent a fight over Arya's transportation to the Otherworld (Beric later acting as a "ferryman" for Lady Stoneheart). Both want to ransom her, i.e. collect the obol for their services. But they want gold (linking to the gilded heads) which I think is unsuitable if the person must have the ability to cross between life and death as they please, like Arya and the faceless men do. I think this is mediated by iron and ties into the idea of the Ironborn paying the iron price rather than the gold. We can relate this to the protection iron grants against spirits - in this case spirits that might hinder passage between the two realms. 

Sandor does actually lead Arya to a ferry named "the two headed horse" at Lord Harroway's Town. This ferry has two horse-head carvings:,

Quote

The boat had a dozen oarlocks and a pair of great carved wooden horse heads mounted fore and aft. The two-headed horse, she realized. 

one fore and one aft, suggesting movement in both directions, back and forth. Sandor, who has no gold to pay the ferryman, usurps the ferry and ends up paying with a note, a promise. A death occurs on the way when a huge uprooted tree glances the boat and a man tumbles into the rushing river, suggesting that this is indeed a death crossing. 

The "fur stranger" or hound helm image may also be hinting at the involvement of skinchanging. An anonymous stranger hidden within the body of a dog or wolf. That brings us to Robb Stark and the last we see of him, his dead body fitted with Grey Wolf's head, riding a horse. Another "fur stranger." As it happens, Sandor delivers Arya to Lord Walder's crossing, a place where a huge amount of deaths have just taken place, a literal world of the dead, again evoking the crossing over to the underworld allusion. Robb is dead and Sandor the "ferryman" can expect no payment for his services. His tourney winnings were taken by the BWB and he's spent his promissory note at the horse with two heads. Sandor is broke and his "unemployment" starts here. He will give up his ferryman activities to actually put the dead to rest. 

Robb's last scene, with him wearing his wolf's head, witnessed by the broke Sandor, suggests Robb has taken the Hound's place as a ferryman of the dead. Perhaps this is meant to denote that he is now in Walder Frey's service (recall the Walders winning the Lord of the Crossing game at Winterfell and the inferences we drew in the Criston Cole - enter cross loci thread). But we also know that wolves and their human counterparts are "wedded for life" - and death presumably, so Walder has probably made a big mistake by taking this particular "fur stranger" into his service. 

 

17 hours ago, Seams said:

You know them better than I do, Bran. Perhaps you should be First Ranger. I'll stay here in your place."

So perhaps the Starks are destined to be fur strangers. Bran was warned not to seek bringing his father back from death, again suggestive of a "ferryman" role. Arya asks if Thoros can return a beheaded man. 

Quote

Bran’s throat was very dry. He swallowed. “Winterfell. I was back in Winterfell. I saw my father. He’s not dead, he’s not, I saw him, he’s back at Winterfell, he’s still alive.” “No,” said Leaf. “He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death.” 

Leaf's cautionary words warn Bran against returning Lord Eddard to the living, in turn suggesting that Bran is capable of such a thing (recall Mel see's Bran as a boy with a wolf's head in one of her visions, a "fur stranger"). 

So how does Benjen Stark as First Ranger / fur stranger psychopomp fit into this? For one, he leads a group of NW-men, two of whom returned from death, and I also found this, maybe linking Benjen to the faceless motif:

Quote

“My daughter often forgets her courtesies,” Eddard Stark said with a faint smile that softened his words. “I beg your forgiveness, Yoren. Did my brother Benjen send you?” “No one sent me, m’lord, saving old Mormont. 

No one sent him ----- saving Old Mormont? Probably stuff for another thread.

On the subject of Lame men being partnered to Strong Stark women, another parallel comes to mind: Brienne. She whopped an arranged suitor, stating she would never marry a man weaker than herself (I really would like Brienne and Tormund to become an item in the books ). I'm still mulling over what this could mean though. 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Evolett

[Seams]

On 1/19/2023 at 8:15 AM, Sandy Clegg said:

a nice hat / an ICE HAT. Symbolically wearing an 'ice hat' would align Craster with the Others

Very nice catch. I wonder whether an Ice Hat would be the same thing as the Ancient Crown of the King of Winter? Dolorous Edd may be a reborn version of Ned Stark (this idea came from @GloubieBoulga long ago, and I find it to be a fitting interpretation). In the larger comment about a hat for Craster, Edd is complaining about Mormont's order to bring an axe to give as a gift to Craster. Edd feels as if he is arming an enemy of the Night's Watch and that complying with the order will cause the ranging party to hasten its descent to hell. If Ned and Robert represent the winter and summer kings, but Craster thinks of himself as the King Beyond the Wall, the hidden meaning behind Edd's remark could be irony about Craster's sense of self-importance. (We also associate floppy (straw) hats with Egg, Young Griff, Arya and - in this ranging - Sam Tarly. So there could be a royal symbolism connected to them.) 

Of course, the axe is used in the uprising where Craster and Mormont die. So Edd may have been right to be reluctant to provide the axe that Mormont requested. 

There could also be an additional type of wordplay in the mix: I think the island of Naath is wordplay on "thana" the Greek prefix for death. Dolorous Edd could be suggesting "ice thana" for Craster - an icy death.

20 hours ago, Evolett said:

This had me speculating on Arya also encountering a "ferryman" or perhaps even meeting several ferrymen during her journey to the HoBaW.

This is a really interesting observation. I think there are several ferrymen, now that we're looking at this. 

In keeping with the "reborn Ned" interpretation, above, somewhere in this forum is a discussion of Ternesio Terys, the captain of the Titan's Daughter ship that carries Arya to Essos. In that discussion, there was a suggestion that Ternesio was another symbolic Ned Stark, bringing Arya to the next stage of her journey.

The thread also noted that Ternesio captains a purple galley and he wears a notable "long captain's coat of purple wool." In my attempts to interpret color symbolism in ASOIAF, purple seemed to carry a possible royal symbolism (Dany wears lavender silk, I think, and Varys smells of lavender. The various shades of Targ eyes are in the purple family) but it is also associated with Parmen Crane of Renly's Rainbow Guard, who wears plums on his surcoat. There is plum/lump symbolism associated with pregnancy (Varamyr sixskins was called Lump after his mother's pregnant belly) so purple could be associated with rebirth.

Arya also ends up having some significant scenes in an area called The Purple Harbor. She murders the old man there using a poisoned coin. 

But plums are also associated with Bloodraven (who takes on the identities of Ser Maynard Plumm and Plummer, the master of the lists at Ashford Meadow). And then there's this:

Quote

Lord Petyr was seated on his window seat, languid and elegant in a plush plum-colored doublet and a yellow satin cape, one gloved hand resting on his knee. "The king is fighting hares with a crossbow," he said. "The hares are winning. Come see."

ACoK, Tyrion IV

I wonder, though, whether GRRM includes indigo in "team purple." Some Targaryens have indigo eyes, I believe. If so, this color is explicitly linked to House Mallister. I suspect that Denys Mallister, commander of the Night's Watch Shadow Tower, is an underworld figure who commands the dead members of  the Night's Watch, like the supervisor of Valhalla, in a sense. Jason Mallister may be the Underworld representative in the Riverlands: he helps to launch the funeral boat for Hoster Tully but there is also significance in his failure to recognize Catelyn when he passes her on the road: she will later "die" at The Twins but be thrown back on the river bank of the Green Fork, as if Death has not yet recognized her as being officially dead; as if she did not have the coin to pay the ferryman.

I know it seems like I digress but here's part of what I'm thinking that helps to tie this back to the search for Arya's ferrymen: purple is (or some shades of purple are) associated with dead guys but it is a precursor to birth. Maybe the point is that indigo and violet are the colors at one end of the rainbow but the life cycle starts over with red, orange and yellow.

In my earlier comment on this thread, I speculated that these major characters are at turning points in their journeys. In ASOIAF, frequent symbolic rebirths may be the author's way of marking turning points. I have also speculated that ships are like eggs: Tyrion "hatches" from the cracked hull of the storm-tossed Selaesori Qhoran and Arya may hatch from the purple galley The Titan's Daughter. 

So plums and lavender eyes may be like purple eggs (Ei/eye pun) that will hatch. This does fit the Mallester eagle sigil. Plums have pits and this wordplay could refer to the Dragon Pit (dragons hatch from eggs). 

Petyr Baelish, with his plum doublet, is (imho) probably a descendant of Elena Targaryen, sister of King Baelor and possibly of exiled Targaryens or Blackfyres who may have reconnected in Braavos. His family sigil is the head of the Titan of Braavos. So there is the severed head coming back into the story, possibly symbolizing the gilded head of Bittersteel. The Baelish family sigil also connects with Arya's "rebirth" from the Titan's Daughter purple galley. Because Littlefinger and Ned are conflated as Sansa/Alayne's "father" in he Sansa arc, the Titan could represent yet another reborn version of Ned Stark. 

But I also checked anagrams of Ternesio Terys because that's what I do with deceptively unimportant minor characters. Possible anagrams, among many possibilities:

Tor Entries Yes

Tor Eyries Nest

Yoren Steers It

Yoren Tree Sits

I mentioned the "tor" in connection with Myria Jordayne, heir to the Tor. This could also allude to Glastonbury Tor, which is a legendary entrance to the Otherworld in Britain.

But the connection between the Eyrie and Yoren seems like a very important clue for us about the ferrymen who guide both Sansa and Arya. Ser Dontos may be a ferryman for Sansa, and he is paid with a bag of coins. Yoren is clearly a ferryman for Arya, who brings her close to Harrenhal. Is he reborn as Ternesio Terys, steering the galley?

21 hours ago, Evolett said:

Sandor does actually lead Arya to a ferry named "the two headed horse" at Lord Harroway's Town. This ferry has two horse-head carvings:,

Quote

The boat had a dozen oarlocks and a pair of great carved wooden horse heads mounted fore and aft. The two-headed horse, she realized. 

one fore and one aft, suggesting movement in both directions, back and forth.

This is really good! We are usually focused on "the dragon has three heads" prophecy but each character usually has one head to start with and needs only two more to complete a trio. And maybe the point of having three heads is to be able to move back and forth. Oh this is getting good - I wondered why Arya has a named horse called Craven. We know that ravens can move back and forth through the door between life and death. And "craven" may be the opposite of the "strong" quality that characters need (described in your earlier post). So she sells Craven in order to get the money to pay for passage on the ship. That money is stolen (iirc) so she uses her "Braavos" coin to secure passage instead. Is she becoming a Master of Coins, able to travel back and forth between life and death?

There's also this:

Quote

 She remembered hearing her lady mother tell Father to put on his lord's face and go deal with some matter. Father had laughed at that. 

ACoK, Arya VII

Bran seems to take on a new sense of strength at the Queen's Crown and Dany stands up to various warlords in a closely linked chapter. Jon also seems to work up his inner strength, refusing to kill the silent old man at the ruined inn and making his escape from the wildlings. So summoning up inner courage seems to be part of the symbolic journey as these young characters reach their turning points.

Back to the fore and aft heads: I'm already thinking of Janos Slynt (like the two-faced Janus), Daario bringing two heads to Dany and having matched weapons on his belt with golden heads. Maybe the Queen of Thorns having twin grandsons as her bodyguards is another example - Varys catches them trying to escape by rowboat, as I recall - another ferryman symbol. 

Like the statue of Trios, with three heads. 

21 hours ago, Evolett said:

So how does Benjen Stark as First Ranger / fur stranger psychopomp fit into this? For one, he leads a group of NW-men, two of whom returned from death, and I also found this, maybe linking Benjen to the faceless motif:

Quote

“My daughter often forgets her courtesies,” Eddard Stark said with a faint smile that softened his words. “I beg your forgiveness, Yoren. Did my brother Benjen send you?” “No one sent me, m’lord, saving old Mormont. 

This is fantastic. Pat on the back for you, my friend. 

The response from Yoren doesn't make sense at all except as a literary clue about "No One."

I wonder whether "Mormont" is wordplay on "moon mort"? The death of the moon? Characters often speak of "a moon's turn," which I take as another way of saying a month. I think there is some kind of pairing of Jon at the Night's "Watch" and the word "time" in Arya's arc - the word comes up repeatedly in the resurrection of Ser Beric and in discussions of life and death in general. But, of course, we see Mormonts in the POVs of Catelyn and Dany as well as Jon, supporting Robb and Stannis.

I think we're getting closer to cracking the code of the cycle of seasons, cycle of the moon and the death and rebirth symbolism.

22 hours ago, Evolett said:

The "fur stranger" or hound helm image may also be hinting at the involvement of skinchanging.

I think this is also spot on. I think Varamyr was a fur stranger who killed a lot of people. And who lives on in "second life" situations.

But I'm also thinking of Benjen offering a bearskin to Tyrion and being surprised when Tyrion accepts. Tyrion later acquires a shadowcat cloak in a gambling game with Merillion. The cloak originally came from the dead body of a mountain clan attacker. 

When Arya kills Dareon, the Night's Watch deserter, he is wearing a purple cloak with vair (squirrel skin) lining. She takes his boots, as I recall, which is a skinchanging metaphor we see in Bran's occupation of Hodor. Like Varamyr, she is taking skins that belonged to other skinchangers. 

[Mourning Star]

3 minutes ago, Seams said:

Very nice catch. I wonder whether an Ice Hat would be the same thing as the Ancient Crown of the King of Winter? Dolorous Edd may be a reborn version of Ned Stark

I can't help but point out that The Tower of Joy, "Joyous Gard" in Arthurian legend, was previously called the "Dolorous Gard" before it is renamed by Lancelot, and reverts to this name after he breaks with Arthur.

[Sandy Clegg]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:25 PM, Evolett said:

I think a "fur stranger" / First Ranger may be a psychopomp figure. Sandor is "half faceless" because of the fire scarring to his face. He replaces his own face (rather like the faceless men) with a hound's face (an animal with fur) and rides a horse named Stranger. So Sandor could be a symbolic "furry stranger."

First, I am indebted to you for introducing me to the word 'psychopomp'. I plan to shoehorn it into everyday conversations as much as possible from now on!  

I do like this new paradigm of fur stranger/first ranger psychopomp figures, ushering people to the underworld. Benjen wears the fur cloak of the NW and is first ranger, and he is the one who 'brings' Jon to the Wall, but then soon departs. Sandor (on Stranger) symbolically introduces Arya to death by leading her almost to the red wedding, and as you say, across the two-headed horse boat and on to Braavos eventually. The coin she uses is reminiscent of the coin paid to Charon to cross the river Styx, and Braavos, shrouded in mist, has many parallels to the underworld.

Osha could be another fur stranger figure, as when Bran meets her she is a stranger wearing wilding furs and she then leads Rickon to the Isle of Skagos. Coldhands too, clearly.

I'd say we have to tread carefully here, though as 99% of the characters North of the Wall are wearing fur of some sort, and are 'strange' in one sense or another. A glut of possible candidates!

Edited January 21, 2023 by Sandy Clegg

[Sandy Clegg]

15 hours ago, Seams said:

Edd may be a reborn version of Ned Stark

I had a theory about Dolorous Edd and Darkstar somehow representing Eddard Stark split into two symbolic halves after his beheading. It's not  very fully-formed theory yet to be honest but ...

Anyway: Eddard Stark  =  Edd    +    (anagram of) Darkstar precisely.

Just as Ice is destroyed and reforged into two new swords (Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail) so too Eddard Stark's name becomes split and forms two new characters, one who keeps an oath (Edd + NW vows) and another with a more 'sinister' flavour. 

[Sandy Clegg]

17 hours ago, Seams said:

Is she becoming a Master of Coins, able to travel back and forth between life and death?

Coin is one of those loaded words. We should consider that one sense of coin is to fabricate, to create, to reproduce. So not just death, but also rebirth.

[Sandy Clegg]

17 hours ago, Seams said:

When Arya kills Dareon, the Night's Watch deserter, he is wearing a purple cloak with vair (squirrel skin) lining. She takes his boots, as I recall, which is a skinchanging metaphor we see in Bran's occupation of Hodor. Like Varamyr, she is taking skins that belonged to other skinchangers.

Stealing clothes, or 'stitches' (as in "I haven't a stitch to wear"). The work of a thief.

This goes right back to her first line in the books: "Arya's stitches were crooked." 

[Evolett]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:59 PM, Seams said:

The thread also noted that Ternesio captains a purple galley and he wears a notable "long captain's coat of purple wool." In my attempts to interpret color symbolism in ASOIAF, purple seemed to carry a possible royal symbolism (Dany wears lavender silk, I think, and Varys smells of lavender. The various shades of Targ eyes are in the purple family) but it is also associated with Parmen Crane of Renly's Rainbow Guard, who wears plums on his surcoat. There is plum/lump symbolism associated with pregnancy (Varamyr sixskins was called Lump after his mother's pregnant belly) so purple could be associated with rebirth.

Arya also ends up having some significant scenes in an area called The Purple Harbor. She murders the old man there using a poisoned coin. 

There is a lot of corellation between purple and gold going on, gold often in the form of currency. I'm thinking also of the Payne sigil - purple and white checkerboard with gold coins. In Arya's case the currency the iron coin that pays the purple-clad ferryman Ternesio and then grants entry into the otherworld of the HoBaW. I've been associating the purple/gold combination with the paying of debts in particular. Arya's weapon is a poisoned gold coin, as is the gold coin used by the Alchemist. Arya's victim was a dishonest insurance man who did not pay up - he was indebted to the families of lost captains and is forced to "pay his debts" with death by way of a poisoned gold coin. 

There could be another layer of meaning to Varamyr's name Lump, especially with the plum/lump wordplay in the background - it could be another gold reference - a lump of gold. Varamyr is reborn to a second life in his wolf. So perhaps a purple/gold combination is the currency that allows rebirth while a purple/poisoned gold combination does not. Dany of the purple eyes and silver-gold hair is also associated with rebirth through the Azor Ahai prophecy of the hero being reborn to wake dragons from stone.

 

On 1/20/2023 at 10:59 PM, Seams said:

Oh this is getting good - I wondered why Arya has a named horse called Craven. We know that ravens can move back and forth through the door between life and death. And "craven" may be the opposite of the "strong" quality that characters need (described in your earlier post). So she sells Craven in order to get the money to pay for passage on the ship instead.

 Love this idea. Arya naming her horse Craven is puzzling but this explains a lot. 

 

On 1/20/2023 at 10:59 PM, Seams said:

Is she becoming a Master of Coins, able to travel back and forth between life and death?

Now that's a thought. LF, Master of Coin, is asscociated with the pomegranate, the medium by which Peresphone lost the opportunity to leave the underworld completely. Eating the seeds meant having to return to Hades for at least half a year, during the cold season. Persephone could travel back and forth and Arya's ability to leave and return to the otherworld of the HoBaW suggests the same. But this mediated by the iron coin, not by gold, wheras LF main currency is gold. I've also been thinking of Bowen Marsh, the "Old Pomegranate" in terms of a Master of Coin. He's the chief steward in charge of provisioning. He's known for his preoccupation with counting. No doubt he manages the financial resources of the NW as well. Being in charge of supplies he would have a hand in that. So it's interesting his efforts are directed to preventing the freefolk's crossing over from the otherworld of the North to the land of the living in the South. 

 

On 1/20/2023 at 10:59 PM, Seams said:

I wonder whether "Mormont" is wordplay on "moon mort"? The death of the moon? Characters often speak of "a moon's turn," which I take as another way of saying a month.

I can see "moon mort" being valid as a reference to the new moon / black moon. I'm familiar with the expression "moon die" meaning the end of the month and this is alluded to in the text too. Aeron Damphair speaks of the moon drowning:

Quote

Seek the hill of Nagga and the bones of the Grey King’s Hall, for in that holy place when the moon has drowned and come again we shall make ourselves a worthy king, a godly king.” 

 

When the moon has drowned and come again is set as the date for the kingsmoot. The drowned moon must be the new moon / black moon and come again could indicate the first slim sicle shape that appears after the new moon.  The reflection of the moon that shatters and reforms in the Womb of the World could also be part of this. Jorah Mormont is nearby. We need to look for more moon allusions regarding the Mormonts. 

 

On 1/21/2023 at 2:39 PM, Sandy Clegg said:

First, I am indebted to you for introducing me to the word 'psychopomp'. I plan to shoehorn it into everyday conversations as much as possible from now on!  

Don't overdo it 

On 1/21/2023 at 2:39 PM, Sandy Clegg said:

I'd say we have to tread carefully here, though as 99% of the characters North of the Wall are wearing fur of some sort, and are 'strange' in one sense or another. A glut of possible candidates!

True. In Sandor's case my focus was more on his name - the Hound - being an animal with fur and of course his horse named Stranger. Significant cloaks would include sable and shadowcat, bear cloaks. Speaking of bear cloaks - Val very much comes to mind here. She leaves Castle Black wearing a brown bear cloak, iirc, but returns wearing the white snow-bear outfit she received from Dalla. She may also be a "fur stranger," able to navigate the dangers of the "otherworld" beyond the Wall with ease and return safely. Perhaps her weirwood pin is the "coin" in this case? Seems fitting.