So Maybe It's Not All GRRM's Fault (Vast Majority his Fault but Not All)

[kimim]

27 minutes ago, OIL, BLOOD, Water said:

You wouldn't want to vacation in Dubai?

Olenna Tyrell: "I congratulate you upon your restraint."

Just want to ask the same question: Pretend you are wealthy. You don't need a free trip to Dubai. You can wait a year, and pay your own way. Then pretend that many people are counting on you to finish a project by a certain date--let's add that you're already late with this project. You know that if you go to Dubai and do various other things, you won't be able to finish the project, and those people will be disappointed. They won't be able to fire you, though! You are independent.

Would you delay Dubai until you're done, or would you delay the project?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I disagree above.

Feast and Dance had A LOT OF MATERIAL to be ADAPTED correctly to screen.

What I mean with this? That while yes, mostly of the content is very "passive", it was THEIR WORK to actually make it work to be more available for screen, as WB did with book 6 of Harry Potter: they added/exaggerated action scenes in a book that was mostly two people talking to each other.

They didn't want to take the time to do the job, though, despite that's exactly their job in this mother.

 

 

[OIL, BLOOD, Water]

4 minutes ago, kimim said:

Just want to ask the same question: Pretend you are wealthy. You don't need a free trip to Dubai. You can wait a year, and pay your own way. Then pretend that many people are counting on you to finish a project by a certain date--let's add that you're already late with this project. You know that if you go to Dubai and do various other things, you won't be able to finish the project, and those people will be disappointed. They won't be able to fire you, though! You are independent.

Would you delay Dubai until you're done, or would you delay the project?

If for whatever reason I wasn't able to give the project my 100% full devotion and effort, I would delay the project, yes.

 

I would go to Dubai, relax, smoke some pot, get my head clear, and THEN come back to the project refreshed and ready to work. 

[Ser Gareth]

2 minutes ago, OIL, BLOOD, Water said:

If for whatever reason I wasn't able to give the project my 100% full devotion and effort, I would delay the project, yes.

 

I would go to Dubai, relax, smoke some pot, get my head clear, and THEN come back to the project refreshed and ready to work. 

And what if there were a rival completing a similar project that would render much of your project pointless if they go there first?

[chrisdaw]

Couldn't give a shit what the show does really, the series will stand the test of time, the show is ultimately irrelevant pulp. In 20 years time people will still be reading ASOIAF and no-one will remember there ever was a show. Provided he maintains the quality that is the whole series so far, that's what matters, that's all that should matter.

[kimim]

1 minute ago, OIL, BLOOD, Water said:

If for whatever reason I wasn't able to give the project my 100% full devotion and effort, I would delay the project, yes.

 

I would go to Dubai, relax, smoke some pot, get my head clear, and THEN come back to the project refreshed and ready to work. 

I guess yours and mine were both rather silly questions, as the answer is subjective. My take on it would be that I couldn't. If I were in fact late in handing in the project, I'd be too hyper to enjoy Dubai. I'd go to Dubai as a present for myself after I was done.

btw, I really wouldn't recommend weed in Dubai. If you're caught, you're going to jail.

[Lautrec]

3 minutes ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

I disagree above.

Feast and Dance had A LOT OF MATERIAL to be ADAPTED correctly to screen.

What I mean with this? That while yes, mostly of the content is very "passive", it was THEIR WORK to actually make it work to be more available for screen, as WB did with book 6 of Harry Potter: they added/exaggerated action scenes in a book that was mostly two people talking to each other.

They didn't want to take the time to do the job, though, despite that's exactly their job in this mother.

 

 

What didn't we get from Feast and Dance? fAegon, Quentyn, Jaime in Riverlands, and the Greyjoys? The first is the worst ass-pull Martin has done, the second the worst waste of time, and the last two we are getting in Season 6. Technically yes, there is material for more than one season. There is material for a million seasons, if they were to write about nothing, which is what Martin did. Instead of having Tyrion travel for 10 episodes, we could see him travel for 20, but that would accomplish nothing, and is certainly not suitable for a visual medium.

 

1 minute ago, chrisdaw said:

Couldn't give a shit what the show does really, the series will stand the test of time, the show is ultimately irrelevant pulp. In 20 years time people will still be reading ASOIAF and no-one will remember there ever was a show.

You do realize the popularity of the show completely trumps the popularity of the books? The series won't stand the test of time because it most likely will never be finished, and the show is the most popular show ever of the most acclaimed TV channel in the world.

[Ser Gareth]

5 minutes ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

I disagree above.

Feast and Dance had A LOT OF MATERIAL to be ADAPTED correctly to screen.

What I mean with this? That while yes, mostly of the content is very "passive", it was THEIR WORK to actually make it work to be more available for screen, as WB did with book 6 of Harry Potter: they added/exaggerated action scenes in a book that was mostly two people talking to each other.

They didn't want to take the time to do the job, though, despite that's exactly their job in this mother.

 

 

There was a lot of material that could be adapted but it would have been dull, like the books generally were.  And the problem for the showrunners is that too many plot threads from them were unanswered.  The first three books were reasonably faithful adaptations but other than the major open arcs (e.g. who is Jon's mother etc.) most of the story arcs came to an end.  There was a finality about it (in preparation for that 5 year gap I guess).  They had plenty of material to work with.

Now take AFFC.  What if GRRM hasn't actually decided the fate of Stoneheart yet?  What if D&D asked him about it and his response was he hadn't made up his mind yet whether she was going to live or die (again!) and that he wasn't quite sure where her story was going?  Or what's going to happen to Jaime when he meets Stoneheart?  "Oh I am not sure yet".  D&D can't work with that.

Basically D&D had a blueprint for the first three books.  The blueprint is incomplete for the next two.

[Ser Gareth]

4 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Couldn't give a shit what the show does really, the series will stand the test of time, the show is ultimately irrelevant pulp. In 20 years time people will still be reading ASOIAF and no-one will remember there ever was a show. Provided he maintains the quality that is the whole series so far, that's what matters, that's all that should matter.

Not if it isn't finished they won't.

[chrisdaw]

Just now, Lautrec said:

You do realize the popularity of the show completely trumps the popularity of the books? The series won't stand the test of time because it most likely will never be finished, and the show is the most popular show ever of the most acclaimed TV channel in the world.

It's popular, contemporarily, which is a characteristic of, as I aptly described it, pulp. Of course he will finish.

[Lautrec]

Just now, chrisdaw said:

It's popular, contemporarily, which is a characteristic of, as I aptly described it, pulp. Of course he will finish.

And what gives you the impression it won't be remembered 20 years from now? 

I wouldn't be so sure about it. And I'm not even talking about his age. If he does finish it definitely won't just be 7 books.

[chrisdaw]

 

15 minutes ago, Lautrec said:

And what gives you the impression it won't be remembered 20 years from now? 

I wouldn't be so sure about it. And I'm not even talking about his age. If he does finish it definitely won't just be 7 books.

Because it's not nearly good enough in a disposable medium. Besides source material all it's strengths are of the now.

[Ser Gareth]

15 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

It's popular, contemporarily, which is a characteristic of, as I aptly described it, pulp. Of course he will finish.

I don't mean to sound macabre or disrespectful but GRRM is 67.  Already 2 years past the UK retirement age.  The way things are going the books will be finished when he is 72 to 77 (I still maintain that unless he really rushes it there is no way the books are being finished in two more novels, not if the original plan was to have Dany arrive at Westeros at the beginning of book four and the series to be a five book series).  It's a tough ask for someone in their 70's to be working full time.

[chrisdaw]

If he was bricklaying sure.

[Lautrec]

1 minute ago, chrisdaw said:

 

Because it's not nearly good enough in a disposable medium. Besides source material all it's strengths are of the now.

Says you. There are literally millions of people saying otherwise. It is the second highest rated TV show of all time on IMDb. The show is loved by both critics and award shows (as seen by the Emmy awards and the great scores on Metacritic). So while you may disagree, it is indisputable that this is one of the biggest and most loved shows of all time. Not to mention that lasting impact has very much to do with popularity, as well as quality, which the show has. If people still remember Firefly almost 15 years after it finished, I don't see how GoT will be forgotten. I also don't understand your point about it being a disposable medium. What is disposable about TV?

[Jonathan N]

4 hours ago, OIL, BLOOD, Water said:

I refuse to believe some of you are older than 21 years of age and have seen the world beyond the scope of college.

The amount of entitlement among ASOIAF fans is too incredible for an adult-male to stomach. I'm flabbergasted whenever I read some fan reactions to GRRM not being able to "make deadlines."

 

"GRRM has not been able to make deadlines" is a statement of fact, not an expression of entitlement of whoever makes that statement. On his blog, GRRM stated that he was not able to meet deadlines - was it a sign of his entitlement?

[A spoon of knife and fork]

44 minutes ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

I disagree above.

Feast and Dance had A LOT OF MATERIAL to be ADAPTED correctly to screen.

What I mean with this? That while yes, mostly of the content is very "passive", it was THEIR WORK to actually make it work to be more available for screen, as WB did with book 6 of Harry Potter: they added/exaggerated action scenes in a book that was mostly two people talking to each other.

They didn't want to take the time to do the job, though, despite that's exactly their job in this mother.

Splitting the potter books was a money grab nothing more, it certainly was not an artistic decision.  The 2nd to last movie was mind numbingly boring.  Same deal with Mockingjay.  I'm glad that d and d did not go that route just because they "could"

i would probably think differently if one of my favorite characters was JC tho.

[chrisdaw]

3 minutes ago, Lautrec said:

Says you.

Yep says me, and the many other shorter running more critically acclaimed and more highly decorated shows, and that's just during the show's run. It's popularity now, which is not in dispute, does not run counter to anything I've said. Television is disposable, its merit is not dissected, discussed and studied beyond its time like the other arts, and most relevantly literature.

[Lautrec]

Just now, chrisdaw said:

Yep says me, and the many other shorter running more critically acclaimed and more highly decorated shows, and that's just during the show's run. It's popularity now, which is not in dispute, does not run counter to anything I've said. Television is disposable, its merit is not dissected, discussed and studied beyond its time like the other arts, and most relevantly literature.

Ever heard of a little show called The Twilight Zone? It ended over 50 years ago and it still being dissected, discussed and studied today. Honestly, I have no idea where you are coming from with this plainly wrong line of thinking. 

[chrisdaw]

That television is held in the same esteem as the other arts is a nonsensical assertion. The best talent in the visual medium make movies, always have and still do. For every twilight zone, there are a great many more better remembered and regarded movies. No matter how much you love the show, it's not going to change reality.