ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Gotcha. Your proof is a pre-interview breaking of steam that was clearly not particularly serious and was at best dark humor. And apparently dark humor makes you a worse human being than, say, raping your wife. Dude, don't you know you can't rape your own wife? /disgust Prove it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 5 minutes ago, ThePrunesThatWasPromised said: We came, we saw, he died. (lulz heavily implied) Now where's your proof Trump is a serial rapist? I'll accept proof he's just a regular rapist. I'll look for a longer, in context video when I get home, but that doesn't look like it was a serious conversation. Even still, it doesn't compare to the things Trump has done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Quote You *know* he was merely hedging his bets to see which way the wind would blow before he came to a position about Klan endorsement. Once he saw it was scorched earth (too small of a voting block at the risk of alienating the moderately nutty who support him for being anti-establishment/non-Democrat), he back-pedaled hard from Duke and the Klan. Oh, absolutely. But it's not just a lie that he did. It's a baldfaced, obviously provable lie. Same thing with the John Oliver thing. He said that John Oliver's show asked him to be on like 4-5 times, when they almost never have any guests on other than sloths and bunnies. It was said with such authority that Oliver had to double check to make sure it wasn't accidentally done. This isn't just a liar - this is someone who will say any single thing that they choose to without having even the slightest care that it has truth in it. Like the self-funding thing - where he isn't self-funding, he's loaning his campaign money (which he can get back) and he's getting 7 million in donations based on the donation button on his own website. But he states that he's paying for everything himself. Like the 'I never settle lawsuits' thing, which is provably false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 2 minutes ago, ThePrunesThatWasPromised said: Dude, don't you know you can't rape your own wife? /disgust Prove it happened. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/27/ex-wife-donald-trump-made-feel-violated-during-sex.html It's called google. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Yep, Robert Byrd was in the KKK. In the 1950s. And he has disavowed it quite a bit, apologizing heavily in 2005. He was one of the most distinguished senators in the last 40 years. He absolutely made mistakes. He was still a fairly good senator, and absolutely beloved by West Virginia (which has like a billion things named after him). The idea that saying kind words about him makes her worse than Trump who had to think about whether or not to take endorsements from a white supremacist is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 We came, we saw, he died. (lulz heavily implied) Now where's your proof Trump is a serial rapist? I'll accept proof he's just a regular rapist. I'll look for a longer, in context video when I get home, but that doesn't look like it was a serious conversation. Even still, it doesn't compare to the things Trump has done Destabilizing nations with force for imperial greed Thousands have died because of Hillary. Trump said coarse words about "undocumented" immigrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 7 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Like the 'I never settle lawsuits' thing, which is provably false. He just settled with Univision like 2 weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Quote Destabilizing nations with force for imperial greed Thousands have died because of Hillary. Trump said coarse words about "undocumented" immigrants. Gotcha. So you are against every single politician, then? Thousands absolutely have died because of Clinton. And Sanders. And Cruz, and Rubio, and absolutely Obama. Thousands more have likely lived because of it. Libya sucked, but a big reason why Libya sucked was that no one stepped in to help (and that was in part because the Libyan officials themselves said 'no, we got this'). The alternative was to not airstrike and let Gaddafi slaughter literally millions of his own people while we watched and did nothing. Trump has stated that his foreign policy will be to commit war crimes by targeting the families of terrorists. That he will reintroduce torture because torture works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 6 minutes ago, ThePrunesThatWasPromised said: Destabilizing nations with force for imperial greed Thousands have died because of Hillary. I thought that was Bush2? (seriously, it was B2 who finally pushed me over the edge, forced to review all my political feelings and led me to leave the Republican party. I never agreed with the party position on women, but under B2 it became a lot more issues I didn't agree with) ETA: or what kalbear said. (I was going to look up exact details when I got home, but he has it right. It was not her decision alone, and she is not the only one responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 I have no problem with a redemption story if it involves a person producing practical works for his fellow man, rather than "finding God" and then giving up responsibility for his past. I agree with Kal that Byrd should be forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Kalbear said: Also, why do elites supposedly care about trump? The elites have chosen not to act. Koch, Adelson - they've been asked to fight against trump and have refused. They don't care. Furthermore while trump is running a cheap campaign he isn't running a free one. He's loaned his campaign 17 million dollars so far and gotten another 7 million via donations. The only unique thing about trump is that unlike most politicians he has already made a brand out of his name. I think it's less that they don't care and more that they don't see any avenue to oppose him or really to bother dealing with the Presidential race right now. Like, Adelson has kept his wallet shut this run but he has also bought a major Nevada newspaper expressly for the purpose, as far as anyone can tell, of pushing his own political message. He was expected to pile it on for Rubio to help him win the primary but then he did basically nothing. And the Kochs were all talking about dumping billions into this race not long ago and afaik they've not done that much yet. They started with Walker and then flirted with Rubio and JEB! but haven't done much overall. I'm thinking it's less that the don't care and more that as the GOP primary developed they all thought it was a clown show at first and now a lost cause and so none of them are bothering to throw much money at it anymore. I would expect more to start pouring in later for congressional seats and governorships and such, as per usual. But they may be writing off the presidency this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Kalbear said: Also, why do elites supposedly care about trump? The elites have chosen not to act. Koch, Adelson - they've been asked to fight against trump and have refused. They don't care. I think they're afraid of him. He has no shame, will say anything and has a giant platform to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I think they're afraid of him. He has no shame, will say anything and has a giant platform to do so. I think they take it for granted that he's one of them and believe he won't do anything to upset the applecart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said: I think they're afraid of him. He has no shame, will say anything and has a giant platform to do so. I don't think the Koch brothers are afraid of an idiot like Trump, especially one who is so easily baited. The idea that they're afraid - why? What can Trump do to the Koch brothers? What can Trump do to Adelson? I think that it's a more reasonable supposition to say that if they're not spending money, it's because they don't need to or they won't get value from it right now. There are several hypotheses about that - perhaps Trump will do enough of a job in helping their businesses, perhaps they'll simply save money for Clinton, perhaps they think that winning senators is more valuable. But ascribing emotional reaction to them is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 1 hour ago, ThePrunesThatWasPromised said: For one he has never lulz's on camera at somebody's torture and execution. All because said person wished to sell his oil in a gold backed African currency. Let's start here, then we can get into signing over a quarter of America's Uranium to Russia for kickbacks. I always love these theories. The Gaddafi/Oil/Gold one is, like, why must all nutty right-wing conspiracies involve gold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I don't think the Koch brothers are afraid of an idiot like Trump, especially one who is so easily baited. The idea that they're afraid - why? What can Trump do to the Koch brothers? What can Trump do to Adelson? I think that it's a more reasonable supposition to say that if they're not spending money, it's because they don't need to or they won't get value from it right now. There are several hypotheses about that - perhaps Trump will do enough of a job in helping their businesses, perhaps they'll simply save money for Clinton, perhaps they think that winning senators is more valuable. But ascribing emotional reaction to them is silly. If you've spent 30 years building a massive political operation, would you risk having the world's greatest troll expose it to the light of day? The second point you made is likely correct, I just suspect they want to stay as far away from him as possible and that's why they haven't been attacking Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 9 minutes ago, alguien said: I think they take it for granted that he's one of them and believe he won't do anything to upset the applecart. His whole schtick is upsetting the applecart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Quote If you've spent 30 years building a massive political operation, would you risk having the world's greatest troll expose it to the light of day? The second point you made is likely correct, I just suspect they want to stay as far away from him as possible and that's why they haven't been attacking You-Know-Who. I don't think that the Koch brothers are scared of being exposed, because they've been working pretty indiscreetly as of late. They have to per the law. It's just not that big a deal. Ultimately the Koch brothers, by their own words, don't necessarily care about whether or not their operations win so much as whether or not the laws they care about get into place. And while they haven't wont the presidency, by all accounts they have been absurdly successful in getting laws that help them into place, and most of that has to do with supreme court favorability (such as Citizens United and various environmental things), state and local politics being dominated by laws their systems proposed and largely controlling the flow of conservative thought. Trump isn't particularly scary in any of these ways. He's if anything something of a scapegoat - someone that will attract a lot of attention away from some of their more nefarious horribleness. And he aligns well with many of the Koch concerns - stopping clean energy, repealing the EPA, tariffs against their competitors. Really, the obvious conclusion why Koch et al haven't spent the money to oppose Trump is that there's no gain to do so, and there are only two real reasons why that's the case: either there is no amount of money that will help their cause (plausible) or they're getting all they want anyway, so there's no need to spend money when they're getting what they want (also plausible). We will probably figure out which is right when we see the nature and funding of attack ads vs. Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: His whole schtick is upsetting the applecart. Yeah, but for the poor and people of color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 IYSS biased liberal. It's not what I say; it's what court records, voting records and the like say. Byrd was a senator for 40 years. If you go in West Virginia you can find bridges, tunnels, parks, preserves, buildings and all sorts of other crap named after Byrd. He was amazingly effective at getting public works stuff in West Virginia. He also voted against the Iraq war and tried to get cloture against it, voted against the homeland security act, And yeah, he was in the KKK, and that sucks. I don't think that that means that you shouldn't say kind words about his death. In addition to Clinton praising him Obama, Biden, and Jimmy Carter all said good things about him. ETA: Obama even gave his eulogy! I mean...really, you're saying that Clinton is a bad person because she openly praised one of the most respected senators in the history of the US on his death. But you're cool with Trump actually threatening the use of torture, of killing families, of deporting 11 million legal residents of the US, of not allowing American Muslims to return to the US if they happen to be outside of the US, of defrauding his investors of billions of dollars...yeah. I'm comparing Clinton/Byrd specifically to Trump/Duke. I'm comparing Libya to the worst you can find on Trump and am not worried at all. Trump's worst bankruptcy doesn't compare to that moral bankruptcy? I specifically support Trump threatening it over Hillary because, yeah, she actually did it already. I could've opened my mind to some Berniesplaining, but it's MAGA for me now after that dog and pony D primary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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