Possible marriage

[Lord Friendzone]

3 hours ago, Winds of Winter blow cold said:

Sweet Robin is not a good option for anyone!  He may not be as young as he is  in the books, but he's still to young!

He's not quiet as sick as he is in the books, but he isn't really healthy either!

Not quiet as pathetic as his book counterpart (no talk of bedwetting anyway) but he's still pretty gross!

He is thoroughly under Littlefinger's thumb (pun intended), this is not good at all!

 

I was thinking about his position as KITN as his being a match for Dany. As for the heir thing, if she believes her self to be barren, she can OK Jon taking a second wife (Sansa, or Arya...or both) or insist he have mistresses & promise to legitimize their offspring. (Yeah I  know that would be problematic, Jon wouldn't trust a Sand Snake anywhere near him.) & this would depend on everyone knowing he's a Targ. I can see them marrying in ignorance, to cement an alliance against both Cersie & the White Walkers.

 

As many people have pointed out, there aren't as many options on the show as there are in the books.

No fAegon, no Arianna, no Harry Hardyng, no Wyllis Tyrelle, no Tyrelle cousins, no Sarella, no Val, no Alys, Martell's dead, Marg dead, no Edric Storm,  no Maya Stone, it goes on & on!

Daeny will beat Cersei and Euron even if they have some tricks. She doesn't need Jon for it and he is more concentrated on white walkers. Alliance for white walkers threat is an option but white walkers only them.

 

[Future Null Infinity]

57 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Daeny will beat Cersei and Euron even if they have some tricks. She doesn't need Jon for it and he is more concentrated on white walkers. Alliance for white walkers threat is an option but white walkers only them.

 

Actually, I think the first target of Dany will be KL and she will succeed, after that, she will invite Jon to KL following an advice from tyrion for a political marriage (and possibly will we see a freys' sandwitch squashing from the north and the south?)

[Lord Friendzone]

5 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Actually, I think the first target of Dany will be KL and she will succeed, after that, she will invite Jon to KL following an advice from tyrion for a political marriage (and possibly will we see a freys' sandwitch squashing from the north and the south?)

If Jon is to cross Neck, he has to go to Twins and Freys still control it. I think they'll meet but not sure where but what if Tyrion is truly in love with her. Would he advice any marriage or try to win her heart. Logically it's marriage because Daeny said she need to get married to form alliance. But Daeny mentioned alliances so what if other marriages might happen.

[illinifan]

7 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Actually, I think the first target of Dany will be KL and she will succeed, after that, she will invite Jon to KL following an advice from tyrion for a political marriage (and possibly will we see a freys' sandwitch squashing from the north and the south?)

Taking KL may be harder than Dany suspects especially if her allies are distracted. (Euron sieging in Oldtown).  

I actually think that it would be cool if Dany attacked Lannisport from the West while Jon distracts them in the North.  I could see Cersei falling for something like that.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Waulder's had his throat slit. I suspect Frey's aren't going to be much of a problem anymore.

[nothatso]

4 minutes ago, Winds of Winter blow cold said:

Waulder's had his throat slit. I suspect Frey's aren't going to be much of a problem anymore.

There are dozens of Freys. Even if the top three in the line of succession are dead, there's plenty more to replace them. Unless the show just glosses over that.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Maybe Arya will free her uncle & his men & they will take them out while the Frey's are unaware? It would finish avenging the Red Wedding.

[illinifan]

2 hours ago, nothatso said:

There are dozens of Freys. Even if the top three in the line of succession are dead, there's plenty more to replace them. Unless the show just glosses over that.

I suspect the Frey offspring begin killing each other.

[TheCasualObserver]

This thread just won't die. I'm still waiting for anyone to give any indication whatsoever that Sansa and Jon will become romantically linked. They are brother and sister. They love each other very much. But this is not romance.

Has GOT given us so many horrible character acting horribly to each other, we assume that when two people are nice to each other it's a given they are going to fuck?

[Quyen Thuy Tran]

No Jon and Sansa please it's creepy as hell.

[Lady Ren]

I wouldn't have crossed it out a few years ago, and after season 6 - well, it seems like a definite possibility. 

People look to Sansa's behaviour to try and predict what will happen (i.e.: interactions with Littlefinger, lying to Jon etc). But Jon is so much more revealing. He died and came back to life much more "human" in a way. Death has freed him.

1. He's no longer bound by honour or duty - he can fight political wars, marry, hold land, and have children. When he was declared King he looked slightly thrilled. 

2. He watched Mel ride away with an expression of loss. Whatever the reason his look, Jon was much easier on Mel this season than last. There was no judgement or fear from him. 

3. He asks for things now. He asked the Wildlings to fight for him. He not content just having what the world is willing to give him.

--

Jon is very clearly struggling with an attraction to Sansa. 

Their every scene from 6x04 to 6x10 follows a pattern. Sansa charms him. She takes him aback. Jon's guarded, cagey, or forcefully doting.  There's an underlying awkwardness that comes into play, and it is him that is feeling awkward. Sansa's quick recoveries (i.e.: do you rememeber the pies old nan used to make? or  Winter is here) save the day. She's aware that he's uncomfortable. She's also the one who is desperately trying to put him at ease and form a bond with him (i.e.: "You are [a Stark] to me" or her cloak gift). But her gestures and attempts just make him even more jumpy. Jon is the wishy-washy one here. 

He makes very clear (unconscious) attempts to put Sansa (physically and mentally) where she belongs.  The scene in 4x10 is a great example. Her apology is brushed aside, because I think on some level he knows that he contributed to their communication issues with his "tell me, don't tell me" behaviour. Jon then kisses her, ignores her "what?" look, nods and tries to convince himself that he's achieved exactly what he had set out to. He feels the need to escape, despite having established her as his sister and Lady of Winterfell, and himself as the bastard interloper who doesn't belong.  But Sansa doesn't go along with his narrative. She never does. And he only escapes when she lets him. 

Sansa on the other hand isn't attracted to Jon. 

Instead, she's comfortable with him. In 6x04 she was the one that reached out to him, not just by arriving at Castle Black, but with that hug and everything else. She wants him to treat her as an equal. She's forceful with him too. There's no fear or hesitance on her part because she knows she can trust him. Sansa, after a little bit of prodding, is all for discovering the man her brother is now. 

His attraction + her ease = fun times.  

It's a tossup, but I sometimes entertain the idea that Jon will make the first move. I could picture him slipping in a telling way. Possibly even before his parentage is revealed. fanfic territory i know. I can't help it. 

[Lord Friendzone]

6 hours ago, Lady Ren said:

I wouldn't have crossed it out a few years ago, and after season 6 - well, it seems like a definite possibility. 

People look to Sansa's behaviour to try and predict what will happen (i.e.: interactions with Littlefinger, lying to Jon etc). But Jon is so much more revealing. He died and came back to life much more "human" in a way. Death has freed him.

1. He's no longer bound by honour or duty - he can fight political wars, marry, hold land, and have children. When he was declared King he looked slightly thrilled. 

2. He watched Mel ride away with an expression of loss. Whatever the reason his look, Jon was much easier on Mel this season than last. There was no judgement or fear from him. 

3. He asks for things now. He asked the Wildlings to fight for him. He not content just having what the world is willing to give him.

--

Jon is very clearly struggling with an attraction to Sansa. 

Their every scene from 6x04 to 6x10 follows a pattern. Sansa charms him. She takes him aback. Jon's guarded, cagey, or forcefully doting.  There's an underlying awkwardness that comes into play, and it is him that is feeling awkward. Sansa's quick recoveries (i.e.: do you rememeber the pies old nan used to make? or  Winter is here) save the day. She's aware that he's uncomfortable. She's also the one who is desperately trying to put him at ease and form a bond with him (i.e.: "You are [a Stark] to me" or her cloak gift). But her gestures and attempts just make him even more jumpy. Jon is the wishy-washy one here. 

He makes very clear (unconscious) attempts to put Sansa (physically and mentally) where she belongs.  The scene in 4x10 is a great example. Her apology is brushed aside, because I think on some level he knows that he contributed to their communication issues with his "tell me, don't tell me" behaviour. Jon then kisses her, ignores her "what?" look, nods and tries to convince himself that he's achieved exactly what he had set out to. He feels the need to escape, despite having established her as his sister and Lady of Winterfell, and himself as the bastard interloper who doesn't belong.  But Sansa doesn't go along with his narrative. She never does. And he only escapes when she lets him. 

Sansa on the other hand isn't attracted to Jon. 

Instead, she's comfortable with him. In 6x04 she was the one that reached out to him, not just by arriving at Castle Black, but with that hug and everything else. She wants him to treat her as an equal. She's forceful with him too. There's no fear or hesitance on her part because she knows she can trust him. Sansa, after a little bit of prodding, is all for discovering the man her brother is now. 

His attraction + her ease = fun times.  

It's a tossup, but I sometimes entertain the idea that Jon will make the first move. I could picture him slipping in a telling way. Possibly even before his parentage is revealed. fanfic territory i know. I can't help it. 

Nope. Jon is not attracted to her by any chance. He tries to be overprotective and probably knows or imagine what she's gone through at this point. Same with Sansa who just doesn't know who to trust and even her own family. Jon lost a lot of people and newly Rickon. And no Sansa dosn't trust him and it was said many times during the season by actors. So you're just imagining things maybe because of chemistry between actors but there is literally nothing sexual or any of that.

[WolfClaw]

11 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Nope. Jon is not attracted to her by any chance. He tries to be overprotective and probably knows or imagine what she's gone through at this point. Same with Sansa who just doesn't know who to trust and even her own family. Jon lost a lot of people and newly Rickon. And no Sansa dosn't trust him and it was said many times during the season by actors. So you're just imagining things maybe because of chemistry between actors but there is literally nothing sexual or any of that.

 

Here we go again about the cast interviews. I fear that I must repeat myself, but I will in order to remind everyone some truths it seems we forget.

We must take into account that almost everyone among the cast believed that Jon was dead and gone at the end of the previous season. Kit even teased Sophie about that. So, we can assume that the cast do not know or do not know details about what is going to happen in the next season.

Furthermore I have four observations on that matter:

1.      Those interviews were taken during the filming of season 6. They could not possibly have knowledge of season 7 script, since it was finished not so long ago. The actors and actresses still have not read the script for the next season, so they do not know what will happen in season 7.

2.      We know the cast members have lied in the past or they did not reveal the truth about certain things, and I am not referring to Jon Snow case. Does anyone remember that Emilia Clarke said she will not do nude scenes again? Or that was crucial part of the story too?

3.      I do not find likely the cast did not know Jon's fate after the end of season 5, which was major part of the script, but they know the details of season 7.

4.      Even if they know some things about season 7 and Jon and Sansa's relationship (which is doubtful from my point of view at least), each of them used different expressions that do not indicate the same level of conflict. Plus in every interview in season 6 both writers and Sophie Turner have said that Sansa does love Jon.

And about certain someone's storyline we have this precedent. These parts are from season 4 about Sansa's future in season 5:

from an interview

 

Season 4: Inside the Episode 8

From George R. R. Martin himself

 

And two more interviews from season 5

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/11/sophie-turner-game-of-thrones-shocking_n_6655484.html

http://www.thewrap.com/game-of-thrones-star-sophie-turner-teases-season-5-sansa-will-use-her-sexuality-to-manipulate-video/

Quote

With this new look, is this a new era for Sansa?

This thing about this whole change for her, changing the dark hair and changing the structure and the color of the dress, was a very conscious decision for her to kind of get away from her mother’s Tully roots and really, you know, form something of a House of her own. She wanted to completely change everything everyone has ever known about her. So it’s just like a massive transformation. There’s no Sansa left behind, and I think not just in the way that she appears but in the way that she’s thinking now. How she’s become this, like, massive manipulator in a way.

Are you creeped out by what’s going on with Sansa and Little Finger?

I kind of love the storyline. I mean, for some viewers, it’s very creepy, but that’s kind of what it’s supposed to be. It’s supposed to be this very messed up, twisted relationship in which Sansa knows she can manipulate Little Finger to get what she wants, and he can do the same with her. And together they create this amazing kind of tag team. And, you know, to outsiders, it’s very messed up and strange, but to her it’s the only way she can get what she wants, and finally she has that power, so she’s gonna use it.

 

 

We all know how things end up for Sansa in season 5. Did any of those things happen?

 

And if anyone suggest that those things are in the past, I would like to remind everyone this:

Season 6: Inside the Episode 5

 

David Benioff said

Quote

Sansa has gotten really good at playing the game.

She is starting to look a couple of moves ahead and she is starting to think is it possible this person is more useful to me alive than dead.

Does any of those things played out to be that way in this season? Unfortunately, not exactly. Sansa did use the Vale army, but she did it because she had no other alternative and with regret, because many of the Northern Lord acted as cowards and forgot their oaths. She promised to reward Littlefinger, so it is not that she manipulated him to do what she wanted.

 

I am not suggesting that conflict is certainly not going to happen (thought I am giving it a very small chance to actually happen). But, even if it happens, it will not be that dramatic, but more of a disagreement. After everything they have said and how things played out, we should take everything they say with a grain of salt.

[Lord Friendzone]

8 minutes ago, WolfClaw said:

 

Here we go again about the cast interviews. I fear that I must repeat myself, but I will in order to remind everyone some truths it seems we forget.

We must take into account that almost everyone among the cast believed that Jon was dead and gone at the end of the previous season. Kit even teased Sophie about that. So, we can assume that the cast do not know or do not know details about what is going to happen in the next season.

Furthermore I have four observations on that matter:

 

1.      Those interviews were taken during the filming of season 6. They could not possibly have knowledge of season 7 script, since it was finished not so long ago. The actors and actresses still have not read the script for the next season, so they do not know what will happen in season 7.

 

2.      We know the cast members have lied in the past or they did not reveal the truth about certain things, and I am not referring to Jon Snow case. Does anyone remember that Emilia Clarke said she will not do nude scenes again? Or that was crucial part of the story too?

 

3.      I do not find likely the cast did not know Jon's fate after the end of season 5, which was major part of the script, but they know the details of season 7.

 

4.      Even if they know some things about season 7 and Jon and Sansa's relationship (which is doubtful from my point of view at least), each of them used different expressions that do not indicate the same level of conflict. Plus in every interview in season 6 both writers and Sophie Turner have said that Sansa does love Jon.

And about certain someone's storyline we have this precedent. These parts are from season 4 about Sansa's future in season 5:

from an interview

 

Season 4: Inside the Episode 8

From George R. R. Martin himself

 

And two more interviews from season 5

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/11/sophie-turner-game-of-thrones-shocking_n_6655484.html

http://www.thewrap.com/game-of-thrones-star-sophie-turner-teases-season-5-sansa-will-use-her-sexuality-to-manipulate-video/

 

 

We all know how things end up for Sansa in season 5. Did any of those things happen?

 

 

And if anyone suggest that those things are in the past, I would like to remind everyone this:

Season 6: Inside the Episode 5

 

David Benioff said

Does any of those things played out to be that way in this season? Unfortunately, not exactly. Sansa did use the Vale army, but she did it because she had no other alternative and with regret, because many of the Northern Lord acted as cowards and forgot their oaths. She promised to reward Littlefinger, so it is not that she manipulated him to do what she wanted.

 

I am not suggesting that conflict is certainly not going to happen (thought I am giving it a very small chance to actually happen). But, even if it happens, it will not be that dramatic, but more of a disagreement. After everything they have said and how things played out, we should take everything they say with a grain of salt.

 

 

There will be disagreement but in the end Litllefinger is destined to be slayed by Sansa. There probably has to be conflict between them because otherwise what's the point of LF there. Of course he'll plant the seeds of about but cast and Benioff said she was jealous, that Jon never gave her credit...he partially did but not in front of Northerners and Liam goes as far as saying it won't pretty between them. While she's not going to kill him but it will be nasty. As Sansa wants to be QitN. We don't want to see conflict between Starks but it's pretty clear. While I think LF will die, question is what will remain of Jon and Sansa bond after this.

[WolfClaw]

While this is a TV show forum and I usually do not like to make references to the books in here, there is a funny trivia I would like to share.

While incest among the Stark family members was unlikely, there is one case that stands out, at least to my own eyes. It was when Sansa Stark (not that one) married Jonnel Stark, who was her father’s half-brother (same father different mothers apparently, since he was a Stark). Jonnel parents were Cregan and Lynara (they do sound familiar, don’t they?).

So, I can see three possibilities:

1.      George R. R. Martin tries to hint us about something

2.      George R. R. Martin tries to totally misguide us

3.      Or he simply lacked any inspiration and imagination when he wrote that particular story

[GhostNymeria]

9 minutes ago, WolfClaw said:

While this is a TV show forum and I usually do not like to make references to the books in here, there is a funny trivia I would like to share.

While incest among the Stark family members was unlikely, there is one case that stands out, at least to my own eyes. It was when Sansa Stark (not that one) married Jonnel Stark, who was her father’s half-brother (same father different mothers apparently, since he was a Stark). Jonnel parents were Cregan and Lynara (they do sound familiar, don’t they?).

So, I can see three possibilities:

1.      George R. R. Martin tries to hint us about something

 

2.      George R. R. Martin tries to totally misguide us

 

3.      Or he simply lacked any inspiration and imagination when he wrote that particular story

 

Cregan=Rhaegar then? Seriously? lol. As for the name Lynara, here are other previous female Stark names which sounds simular to Lyanna: Lysara, Lyanne, Lyarra, Lorra, Arrana. GRRM has created name cultures in the different regions of Westeros. Like the north and the Iron islands have the same names in their families for example. And there's also different variations to the name Lyanna in other houses: Dyanna Dayne, Jyana Reed etc. I don't deny that there's some things in the books that could be considered foreshadowing for Jon/Sansa (I find it highly unlikely tough), but you're really reaching here.  Btw, there was also a Brandon who had a bastard with a woman named Wylla Fenn. Is GRRM trying to tell us something there then?

[Lady Ren]

@WolfClaw:  I knew there was a Sansa Stark, but I had no idea she married a Jonnel Stark. I'm not sure what significance it has. But it probably has to have some right?

Mixing book and show is not ideal, but sometimes the show's decisions (to include or not include), distinguish between red herrings and actual foreshadowing. ex: young griff, val, LS, Harry the heir, etc. 

[Lady Ren]

Marriage = how do I see Sansa 5/10 years from now?

At this point in the story, when I think marriage&Sansa, I picture less emphasis on political gain, and more about Sansa's future. What her role will be once she slays Littlefinger. Magic will take over and most likely she'll be relegated to a corner. We know she's not the "younger more beautiful queen" who will "take everything held dear" by Cersei. Sansa's story seems to be winding down in a way. Her external hurdles are nearing an end. 

Whatever her space/role is, we're probably seeing it unfold now:

1.  Sansa wants to stay at Winterfell. She's not about to (re)marry a Lannister (Tyrion), a youthful crush (Sandor), or enter into yet another union arranged by Littlefinger (Robin).

2. She wants to be Jon's #1 advisor. I think she's going to get what she wants here, in one form or another. 

 

 

[illinifan]

Okay..  Here are three scenarios with Sansa.

1. Sansa dies at Winterfell prior to the final Battle for Dawn.  Jon goes south with Dany and leaves Sansa as regent of the North.  Winterfell is one of the first places hit when the White Walkers inevitably breach the Wall.

2.  Sansa survives and marries Jon after Dany dies in childbirth.  (I still suspect the endgame is Jon marrying his auntie due to parallels with how the War of the Roses ended but it may not "stick.")

3.  Sansa survives and ends up married to Tyrion for real.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

We may have become a little to focused on Jon/Sansa because it's the flavor of the month. I will say that I don't think the mixed interruptions are what the show runners & cast had in mind all along.

Jon has fewer options on the show, likely because Dany is end game & they don't want many distractions from that.

Arya & Gendry are a slight option, most of the rest of the fan favorites don't seem  to be very likely in my opinion.