Possible marriage

[ThePukwudgie]

I have no idea what Jon or Sansa's endgames are, but it's clear that those scenes between them in S6 were meant to have romantic undertones, beyond the chemistry of the actors. Everything from the lighting, to the awkwardness, to the longing looks and bickering between them.

I guarantee Jon will not have this type of dynamic with Arya. It'll be far more sibling-like.

[Winter's Cold]

5 hours ago, ThePukwudgie said:

I have no idea what Jon or Sansa's endgames are, but it's clear that those scenes between them in S6 were meant to have romantic undertones, beyond the chemistry of the actors. Everything from the lighting, to the awkwardness, to the longing looks and bickering between them.

I guarantee Jon will not have this type of dynamic with Arya. It'll be far more sibling-like.

So Sansa berating Jon and lying to him and hiding an army from him are indications that a romance will happen. 

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

11 hours ago, Winds of Winter blow cold said:

We may have become a little to focused on Jon/Sansa because it's the flavor of the month. I will say that I don't think the mixed interruptions are what the show runners & cast had in mind all along.

Jon has fewer options on the show, likely because Dany is end game & they don't want many distractions from that.

Arya & Gendry are a slight option, most of the rest of the fan favorites don't seem  to be very likely in my opinion.

 

I really shouldn't write when I'm tired! This came out as the exact opposite of what I intended!

[ThePukwudgie]

15 hours ago, Winter's Cold said:

So Sansa berating Jon and lying to him and hiding an army from him are indications that a romance will happen. 

I don't recall ever saying romance would happen. All I said was that those scenes were meant to have romantic undertones, I'm not sure why four different directors all chose to portray their dynamic as pre-romantic(into eachother but oblivious to it). My guess is that it's in the writing.

 

[Winter's Cold]

17 minutes ago, ThePukwudgie said:

I don't recall ever saying romance would happen. All I said was that those scenes were meant to have romantic undertones, I'm not sure why four different directors all chose to portray their dynamic as pre-romantic(into eachother but oblivious to it). My guess is that it's in the writing.

Siblings touching each other or arguing is romantic? I guess Margaery and Loras were in love with each other and Theon and Yara are going to bone next season. 

[ThePukwudgie]

43 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said:

Siblings touching each other or arguing is romantic? I guess Margaery and Loras were in love with each other and Theon and Yara are going to bone next season. 

You don't get it. There's a difference between the scenes between Jon/Sansa and the scenes between other siblings, such as Yara/Theon or Margaery/Loras.

I doubt you'll get it. You're over-simplifying the actions of the characters to just "arguing" and just "touching" when there's obviously more going on to the scenes. Lady Ren did a good write up on it on the last page.

[Bear Claw]

12 minutes ago, ThePukwudgie said:

You don't get it. There's a difference between the scenes between Jon/Sansa and the scenes between other siblings, such as Yara/Theon or Margaery/Loras.

I doubt you'll get it. You're over-simplifying the actions of the characters to just "arguing" and just "touching" when there's obviously more going on to the scenes. Lady Ren did a good write up on it on the last page.

Yes, I noticed a difference. There are a lot of camera shots where he is looking at her surreptitiously.  Why do that? 

[ThePukwudgie]

10 minutes ago, Bear Claw said:

Yes, I noticed a difference. There are a lot of camera shots where he is looking at her surreptitiously.  Why do that? 

LOL, how about the time he stared at her lips right after he kissed her forehead? Even the forehead kiss by itself is an odd display of affection.

 

I wonder where D&D are planning on going with all this, and whether GRRM will follow.

[Bear Claw]

26 minutes ago, ThePukwudgie said:

LOL, how about the time he stared at her lips right after he kissed her forehead? I wonder where D&D are planning on going with all this, and whether GRRM will follow.

Yes, the show runners have a choice. They don't even have to show any kiss. Why was that even necessary? I don't feel like they even resolved anything. Whatever they are planning it must be a big part of the story since they used all season this season, and it looks like some if not all of next season. If it was setting up  betrayal, they could have done it this season. Do they really have to use one and a half seasons to convince anyone that Sansa would betray Jon? I like Sansa and I don't think she would do it. However, it seems like most people are only all too ready to believe the worst of Sansa.  Why spend more time than necessary in production to portray that?  Doesn't make sense.

[Joan Jett]

8 hours ago, ThePukwudgie said:

You don't get it. There's a difference between the scenes between Jon/Sansa and the scenes between other siblings, such as Yara/Theon or Margaery/Loras.

I doubt you'll get it. You're over-simplifying the actions of the characters to just "arguing" and just "touching" when there's obviously more going on to the scenes. Lady Ren did a good write up on it on the last page.

The only difference is that you ship Jon/Sansa while you don't want the others to be incestuous. You're transparent. There was clearly a sibling parallel going on during the season. Watch the scenes again and this time try not to let your imagination run wild. Nevermind, that would be pointless because it seems like have already convinced yourself. Oh well. 

On July 18, 2016 at 6:57 AM, Winter's Cold said:

So Sansa berating Jon and lying to him and hiding an army from him are indications that a romance will happen. 

It's so puzzling, how folks will pick out certain scenes to misinterpret and ignore everything else that happened in season 6. Sad. 

On July 17, 2016 at 4:39 AM, Lord Friendzone said:

Nope. Jon is not attracted to her by any chance. He tries to be overprotective and probably knows or imagine what she's gone through at this point. Same with Sansa who just doesn't know who to trust and even her own family. Jon lost a lot of people and newly Rickon. And no Sansa dosn't trust him and it was said many times during the season by actors. So you're just imagining things maybe because of chemistry between actors but there is literally nothing sexual or any of that.

Exactly. Lady Ren's post was like reading fanfic, none of that was on screen. I think some people are just projecting their shipping onto the screen because they want it SO badly. To hell with what the writers/actors/showrunners say. 

[Le Cygne]

Arya and Sandor are heading North/to Winterfell. She said she's going home, and he was back for 2 episodes and they did a parallel with Sansa and headed him north. (And my point is, the reunions ahead will play into the story to come, in a big way.)

[maja89]

On 18.07.2016 at 7:30 AM, ThePukwudgie said:

I have no idea what Jon or Sansa's endgames are, but it's clear that those scenes between them in S6 were meant to have romantic undertones, beyond the chemistry of the actors. Everything from the lighting, to the awkwardness, to the longing looks and bickering between them.

 

well, to be honest I'm not really sure that they were MEANT to have romantic undertones (because it would mean that they really want to go there) but they obviously have romantic undertones - either it's intentional, either HUGE mistake of directors.

but assuming that directors are not amators, we have to also assume that if they hadn't wanted the audience to slowly get used to the idea of these two together (for whatever reason), they wouldn't have allowed actors to play these scenes in such a way and Kit wouldn't be allowed to stare at his sister lips after forehead kiss, or to get all "embarrassed teenage boy who doesn't know how to act around girl he likes" after she gave him the fur.

these scene ARE weird and it's honestly not up to interpretation anymore, because general audience DOES see it, and it's audience who is right (if you have to explain the story in interviews, that means that you failed). You can check it by simple google trends (where it seems that Jon/Sansa is becoming one of the most popular relationship in the show), you can check popular reviews, at last you can check how popular these threads are on this forum (doesn't matter if people want it or not - it created HUGE fuse this season). Then you can off course argue that audience is nuts.

but if you rule out the option that all of listed above (so basically people's interest and all the discussion) happen for absolutelly no reason, there are only two options left:

1) either Kit REALLY fancy Sophie and is REALLY terrible actor, AND directors are less than amateurs

2) either it's intentional (and I see two possible intentions here: a) it can be directed like that just to make people talk about it/argue/ basically to give people something to talk about, but with no further exploration, b/ it leads to something.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

9 minutes ago, maja89 said:

well, to be honest I'm not really sure that they were MEANT to have romantic undertones (because it would mean that they really want to go there) but they obviously have romantic undertones - either it's intentional, either HUGE mistake of directors.

but assuming that directors are not amators, we have to also assume that if they hadn't wanted the audience to slowly get used to the idea of these two together (for whatever reason), they wouldn't have allowed actors to play these scenes in such a way and Kit wouldn't be allowed to stare at his sister lips after forehead kiss, or to get all "embarrassed teenage boy who doesn't know how to act around girl he likes" after she gave him the fur.

these scene ARE weird and it's honestly not up to interpretation anymore, because general audience DOES see it, and it's audience who is right (if you have to explain the story in interviews, that means that you failed). You can check it by simple google trends (where it seems that Jon/Sansa is becoming one of the most popular relationship in the show), you can check popular reviews, at last you can check how popular these threads are on this forum (doesn't matter if people want it or not - it created HUGE fuse this season). Then you can off course argue that audience is nuts.

but if you rule out the option that all of listed above (so basically people's interest and all the discussion) happen for absolutelly no reason, there are only two options left:

1) either Kit REALLY fancy Sophie and is REALLY terrible actor, AND directors are less than amateurs

2) either it's intentional (and I see two possible intentions here: a) it can be directed like that just to make people talk about it/argue/ basically to give people something to talk about, but with no further exploration, b/ it leads to something.

That was what I was trying to say but blew it! They really want people to fight about it.

[Le Cygne]

And yet most of "the audience" is seeing no such thing, and the showrunners said it was sibling rivalry, with jealousy and anger and mistrust.

The worry many have is that she will betray him. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

[maja89]

2 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

And yet most of "the audience" is seeing no such thing

obviously you're right: https://www.google.pl/trends/explore#q=jon%2Fsansa%2C jon%2Fdaenerys%2C sandor%2Fsansa%2C jon%2Farya&date=7%2F2015 13m&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT-2

but it's probably because everyone who doesn't like the idea of Sansa and Sandor (and Jon and Arya) together are idiots, and you're the only one who is entitled to have your opinion

Quote

and the showrunners said it was sibling rivalry, with jealousy and anger and mistrust.

and that ends the discussion. Basically we could end the show right now, because showrunners said something about everything at some point. It's not like they happen to lie, or care about the fuss around the show. As we saw over and over again during these 6 seasons: if Sophie says something it's basically written in stone

[Le Cygne]

One, that's a badly configured link. Doesn't mean what you think it means.

Two, the rest is a strawman, and it's also projection. You lost the argument.

[Winter's Cold]

If fan shipping meant that two characters got together then Harry would have married Hermione.

[WolfClaw]

1 minute ago, Winter's Cold said:

If fan shipping meant that two characters got together then Harry would have married Hermione.

In the books or in the movies? Remember two different mediums.

[Karmarni]

I don't see any story that is romantic for Jon and Sansa. In the books she's NOT THERE IN WINTERFELL AND PLAYED NO PART in what happened in Season 5 or Season 6. I cannot stress that enough. The character is a tool of the writers at this point. All of "Sansa" since Season 5 is a departure from the books. Show viewers talk about shortening and condensing the story --- that's what happened. Sansa became Jeyne Poole then she and Jon became Stannis. She does not have her book story, her real story.

Never do I see any sexual attraction or sexual chemistry between Jon Snow and Sansa Stark on the show. Or between the actors. That's in the imagination of viewers who perhaps only watch the show or if they are book readers somehow don't read closely enough to see that Sansa Stark becomes more and more a sympathetic character once she let's out that she finds Sandor Clegane interesting enough to watch, smart enough to listen to, hears his voice, wonders where he is, and then says she knows what goes on in the marriage bed because of a dreamed-up kiss she has with him. Now that's a story. That's something to watch for, to root for. He's someone Sansa wants and wishes he were there with her.

The show played scenes between Sandor and Sansa as a combination of gentle and as push-pull, building on their differences. As they have both grown in character, they have both became more and more what the other would find attractive.

Jon and Sansa being in scenes together on the show is made up fan fiction to get from point A to point B in a faster, have-to-hire-less-actors way.That is all.

My opinion is that there are those who like to 'ship' actors together and could see romantic possibilities between any actors in any show. Just check out any fanfiction site for proof.

Meanwhile, back in Weiseroff, Sansa Stark has got to take care of Littlefinger and she may betray Jon at some point. But I think she'll clue in to the real truth about Littlefinger just in time to shank him. All hints from the show point to this happening.

My expectation is that in Season 7 Sansa will finally return to a more book Sansa role, her 'real' role, where she will, as she will in the books, be wiser, more questioning, and open to the possibility that she wants Sandor Clegane in her life. He is the 'dog' she is supposed to have, not a direwolf. Both books and show.

These are based on expectations of a close reading of the books and expectation of the show, based on crafting a well-executed visual story. (The show does come up lacking in that department, btw.)

[sweetsunray]

On 18-7-2016 at 7:30 AM, ThePukwudgie said:

I have no idea what Jon or Sansa's endgames are, but it's clear that those scenes between them in S6 were meant to have romantic undertones, beyond the chemistry of the actors. Everything from the lighting, to the awkwardness, to the longing looks and bickering between them.

I guarantee Jon will not have this type of dynamic with Arya. It'll be far more sibling-like.

No, I can't say at all that it was meant to have romantic undertones. I saw no longing looks or romantic bickering. And when even d$d themselves stipulate there's nothing romantic about it, just brother and sister and a strenious, envious sibling relationship from Sansa outward, then you're simply seeing what you want to see imo.