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7 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

I'm all for giving Dany agency,

What does “agency” mean here? This is a pop usage not yet in any dictionary I've found.

You mean her not needing an agent to act for her?  What is this thing "agency" supposed to mean?

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2 minutes ago, jbob said:

What if doesn't apply because she knew where the lanterns were already. There was an entire scene set in that same place. You make it sound like she planned it last season or something.

Dude, what if they moved em ? What if she was bound (which would probably make sense). It's silly no matter how you slice it. Your betting your entire life on the idea that you can push over some fire-pots(or whatever the hell they are). I guess she don't got much choice, but don't sit here and make it seem like Dany is some mastermind over this lol.

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8 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

I'm all for giving Dany agency, and not having her constantly be saved by her dragon. But the problem with this scene is that it was completely idiotic. Lets look past all these "repetitive" comments and realize this was basically the exact same scene from Season 1. How did this plan make any sense at all? What if the lanterns were up on the sides of the shelter and not in the middle ? What if she was tied up and not let freely walk around? How does this plan make ANY sense. She could have died so easily.

I struggle to see how anyone can watch this and think Dany looked good from that scene. She looked like an idiot lol. 

And also, having Drogon swoop in to save her wouldn't be repetitive if you know, they actually used the Pit scene from the book. They made THAT scene all about deus ex drogon and not about Dany's strength and power. So they had to make THIS scene idiotic. I don't give the writers a pass. If the scene doesn't work than come up with something better. How can anyone think this was a believable scene ?

The rest of the episode was mediocre to great. I loved the Jon and Sansa scenes. It gave me hope for the show, until the end.

But the lanterns weren't up on the side and she wasn't tied up. I don't really see how you're saying the plan doesn't work based on a bunch of what ifs? It worked. She survived the fire once again, she's leaving Vaes Dothrak and she's united the Khalasars and they're following her. How does that make her look like an idiot?

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1 minute ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

What does “agency” mean here? This is a pop usage not yet in any dictionary I've found.

You mean her not needing an agent to act for her?  What is this thing "agency" supposed to mean?

Past posters in the thread were saying this was a good scene because it would have been lame if she need to be saved like a "damsel in distress" by Drogon. I was simply using their term. 

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Just now, Morky_Pep said:

Dude, what if they moved em ? What if she was bound (which would probably make sense). It's silly no matter how you slice it. Your betting your entire life on the idea that you can push over some fire-pots(or whatever the hell they are). I guess she don't got much choice, but don't sit here and make it seem like Dany is some mastermind over this lol.

She lucked out. Why would they move them? Even if they did she'd just walk to them. Why would she be bound? That be a sign of weakness for a group of men to have to tie a small woman. Some Khals.

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1 minute ago, Morky_Pep said:

Dude, what if they moved em ? What if she was bound (which would probably make sense). It's silly no matter how you slice it. Your betting your entire life on the idea that you can push over some fire-pots(or whatever the hell they are). I guess she don't got much choice, but don't sit here and make it seem like Dany is some mastermind over this lol.

Presumably, if the lanterns were not in the positions she wanted them, she would have given a different speech.

However, since it is night and there has to be some form of illumination, it is a fair bet that the lanterns are still there from the morning.

OK, not 100% certain but if it was me in that situation my much bigger concern would be that maybe I am only fireproof when hatching dragon eggs and burning a witch.

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4 minutes ago, RadSam said:

But the lanterns weren't up on the side and she wasn't tied up. I don't really see how you're saying the plan doesn't work based on a bunch of what ifs? It worked. She survived the fire once again, she's leaving Vaes Dothrak and she's united the Khalasars and they're following her. How does that make her look like an idiot?

I do agree the scene was a bit of a stretch, and so many things had to go right. But if Dany walked in there and the lanterns weren't lit, or had been moved, or the Dothraki were not all seated conveniently together, can we assume she wouldn't have gone with Plan A?

We'll never knew if she had a Plan B, but it is fair to say she only talked the way she did because the situation was just right for her bonfire.

Edited by yushkevitch

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27 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I'm not entirely sure this is the direction he's going in the books, exactly 

I’m not entirely sure, either, but after Dany surviving Drogo’s funeral pyre and Jon somehow ultimately surviving being murdered, I don’t think we’re talking about Thomas Jefferson style heroes any longer, but rather heroes like Achilles who are beyond our ken.

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In the preview for next episode, there is nothing related to ToJ, that is okay, they may keep it under the wraps. But it seems that 'Bran learns a great deal' is about whitewalkers. And there is no bloodraven aynwhere near him in the vision. Does this mean that Night king is Bloodraven?

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4 minutes ago, hallam said:

Presumably, if the lanterns were not in the positions she wanted them, she would have given a different speech.

However, since it is night and there has to be some form of illumination, it is a fair bet that the lanterns are still there from the morning.

Those weren't lanterns; they were flaming braziers.

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4 minutes ago, hallam said:

Presumably, if the lanterns were not in the positions she wanted them, she would have given a different speech.

However, since it is night and there has to be some form of illumination, it is a fair bet that the lanterns are still there from the morning.

OK, not 100% certain but if it was me in that situation my much bigger concern would be that maybe I am only fireproof when hatching dragon eggs and burning a witch.

Alright man the point is that is still not a great plan. It just wreaked of lazy writing. I used to think this show was great, and tonight I thought it was returning to form but that scene wreaked of scenes like Dorne, and Shireen last season. It clear to me that while the show can still be good. It is certainly not great IMO.

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1 minute ago, Morky_Pep said:

Alright man the point is that is still not a great plan. It just wreaked of lazy writing. 

Does it seem likely that Martin will have Dany ultimately taking command of all the khalasars in the books?

If so, how might she best accomplish that seemingly impossible task? 

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2 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I’m not entirely sure, either, but after Dany surviving Drogo’s funeral pyre and Jon somehow ultimately surviving being murdered, I don’t think we’re talking about Thomas Jefferson style heroes any longer, but rather heroes like Achilles who are beyond our ken.

Well GRRM does sort of hint that he goes that way in the end. Prince who was promised and all that.

Oh and I am pretty sure everyman can't hatch dragon eggs.

1 minute ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Those weren't lanterns; they were flaming braziers.

Functionally they were providing illumination as well as heat. Danny only starts mouthing off to the khals when she is in position and can push the braziers over. And she doesn't do even that until she has put her hand in the fire and is sure she won't burn to a crisp.

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Just now, CrypticWeirwood said:

Does it seem likely that Martin will have Dany ultimately taking command of all the khalasars in the books?

If so, how might she best accomplish that seemingly impossible task? 

I don't know but I have faith that Martin will come up with something better than knockin over some braziers. Also, last we saw Dany in hte books she had Drogon right beside her when the khalasar rolls up. Something tells me shes going to be treated much differently by the Dothraki in the book than the show. But I guess we will have to wait and see. 

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8 minutes ago, yushkevitch said:

I do agree the scene was a bit of a stretch, and so many things had to go right. But if Dany walked in there and the lanterns weren't lit, or had been moved, or the Dothraki were not all seated conveniently together, can we assume she wouldn't have gone with Plan A?

We'll never knew if she had a Plan B, but it is fair to say she only talked the way she did because the situation was just right for her bonfire.

Even if it was a stretch (I don't think so), who cares? It moved the story along. If she didn't go through with that plan, or the plan failed and she was still stuck in Vaes Dothrak, people would be complaining that her story was going to slow.

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Just now, RadSam said:

Even if it was a stretch (I don't think so), who cares? It moved the story along. If she didn't go through with that plan, or the plan failed and she was still stuck in Vaes Dothrak, people would be complaining that her story was going to slow.

quality over quantity my friend. in my opinion atleast.

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17 minutes ago, Morky_Pep said:

Dude, what if they moved em ? What if she was bound (which would probably make sense). It's silly no matter how you slice it. Your betting your entire life on the idea that you can push over some fire-pots(or whatever the hell they are). I guess she don't got much choice, but don't sit here and make it seem like Dany is some mastermind over this lol.

You think the Dothraki frequently redecorate the place or something? I mean this is silly.

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You know, lanterns, braziers, where were they placed, how did she plan it, blah blah blah... 

She's not strong. Her experience is limited. All she has is a presumed immunity to fire and her "wits." I find it likely that any scenario would have been met with skepticism and/or outright derision by some people. At least what she did was consistent with her history and ability.

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4 minutes ago, hallam said:

Danny only starts mouthing off to the khals when she is in position and can push the braziers over. And she doesn't do even that until she has put her hand in the fire and is sure she won't burn to a crisp.

That’s a good point: it’s like she was testing the water before diving into it.

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