Queen Unburnt Rises Again...Yes there shall be SPOILERS

[Maid So Fair]

5 hours ago, WingedShadow said:

Other than the Dosh Khaleen, Khals are the highest rank in Dothraki society. They do qualify as kings.

Because they've been killed and absorbed into the khalasars of the 10 Khals that currently existed. 

Dany eating a horse heart was different. This is a meeting between the Khals about what their plans are until the next meeting. 

 

I'm not saying they're not the highest rank - I'm saying that being a Khal doesn't necessarily  mean you command tens of thousands of men. You can be a Khal on a fairly small scale - just like there are plenty of examples both in universe and in real life of kings of tiny kingdoms. And since there has been no Dothraki unification movement until now there should be more than just a  handful of khals at any given time.

Things must have happened off screen for this ti make sense doesn't really help. And the presence of bloodriders as well as the fact that the scene credits only three khals makes the already small number of 10 knows even smaller.

Different how? Why should the Dothraki care more about whether Dany's child will be important than their battle plans for the foreseeable future?

[ummester]

19 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

1. She will absolutely return to Meereen.  100% certainty.

2. Tyrion will get his own dragon.  They may clash over his compromise.

3. There will be a huge battle, the Ironborn will show up in the nick of time with Dany Sue's fleet, some bandaid on how Meereen will survive in the future will be applied and all will sail to Westeros.

4. More people will die, maybe Grey Worm, Missy may be left in charge, Daario might die, I feel that Jorah will NOT die since he needs to infect Westeros or someone important with checkov's greyscale.

There, how's that.  

1 Yea, she'll go back to Mereen

2 I would really love it if Dany torched the arrogant little fucker known as show Tyrion - but I agree she probably won't. He has to confront Jamie and Cersie again before this tale is done. Re Tyrion riding a dragon, if he can't handle a horse, how would his legs wrap around something with 2 - 3 times the girth and muscle where it is mounted? Tyrion riding a dragon will be physically impossible.

3 Perhaps - I have a feeling Merren will be left in smoking ruins also and tat Dany will leave it a failed experiment.

4 Checkov's grey scale is for the whole of Westeros. By the end of this series, I see nothing but widespread destruction, disease, famine, chaos, cannibalism etc, etc - Dogs and Cats living together  A very small chosen few will survive the Long Night, facing a new dawn over an obliterated Westeros.

[khal drogon]

I hate that they have made Dany fireproof. Drogo's pyre was one time magic which Martin has revealed that Dany herself caused the magic. I wish the showrunners made her kind of a fire sorceress who created the magic by burning the khals than making her having a super power.

[WingedShadow]

4 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

I'm not saying they're not the highest rank - I'm saying that being a Khal doesn't necessarily  mean you command tens of thousands of men. You can be a Khal on a fairly small scale - just like there are plenty of examples both in universe and in real life of kings of tiny kingdoms. And since there has been no Dothraki unification movement until now there should be more than just a  handful of khals at any given time.

Things must have happened off screen for this ti make sense doesn't really help. And the presence of bloodriders as well as the fact that the scene credits only three khals makes the already small number of 10 knows even smaller.

At this point in time, Khalasars are getting larger and larger, so the number of Khals is dwindling. Makes sense to me. She weren't exactly following the Dothraki after Season 1, so plenty has happened off-screen they we might not know about.

4 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

Different how? Why should the Dothraki care more about whether Dany's child will be important than their battle plans for the foreseeable future?

The horse-heart eating is part of a pregnancy ceremony that all pregnant khaleesi undergo. It's meant to be a more public event.

The meeting of khals is, well, a meeting of khals. It's not a public event, it's a private meeting between a select few in the Dothraki.

 

1 hour ago, ummester said:

 Re Tyrion riding a dragon, if he can't handle a horse, how would his legs wrap around something with 2 - 3 times the girth and muscle where it is mounted? Tyrion riding a dragon will be physically impossible.

Just like Bran can never ride a horse again, right? Tyrion has experience designing weird saddles.

7 minutes ago, khal drogon said:

I hate that they have made Dany fireproof. Drogo's pyre was one time magic which Martin has revealed that Dany herself caused the magic. I wish the showrunners made her kind of a fire sorceress who created the magic by burning the khals than making her having a super power.

Well, the pyre was a one-time thing in the books. Was never restated for the show(and actually was stated back in 1998, so things could've changed since then)

 

i disagree, that would be dumb.

[Vastet]

"I'm not saying they're not the highest rank - I'm saying that being a Khal doesn't necessarily  mean you command tens of thousands of men."

Being a King doesn't necessarily mean you command tens of thousands of men. Stannis and Balon both called themselves King, and neither commanded that many people. Being a King simply means you give the orders, and take none (except in rare circumstances like when the church has power, or something else similar). It does not depend on how many people are under your command.

"Things must have happened off screen for this ti make sense doesn't really help. And the presence of bloodriders as well as the fact that the scene credits only three khals makes the already small number of 10 knows even smaller."

The scene credits mean nothing more than three Khal's spoke. If you rewatch the scene, you'll notice that only three Khal's spoke. It does not imply the rest weren't Khal's.

"Different how? Why should the Dothraki care more about whether Dany's child will be important than their battle plans for the foreseeable future?"

Because they have no say in what their Khal's plan for the future. This is not a celebration, it is strategy. Even democratic societies don't invite the people to watch or participate in government. Ancient barbaric societies would hardly be more enlightened.

A Khal becoming a father is a celebration for that Khal's Khalisaar. As is a Khal getting married. Under neither circumstance was every Khalisaar present. It is not a comparable event. If a world leader gets married or has children, they often celebrate with large parties with many people. But noone gets invited to a war room unless they earned the right to be there.

[The Arthur Smith]

17 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

Sure, but if her first try at dabbling with blood magic revealed anything it was that magic is a sword with no hilt and that your actions can have very unintended and serious consequences. It's unpredictable. It's not a zero sum game. She wanted to save Drogo and ended up killing her own child. Having learned her lesson the hard way, she should be hesitant to try again but the way it plays out she knows exactly what will happen - how?

Dany stated that she learned the "life equivalent exchange" for blood magic from Mirri. Which i don't have my GoT book with me, but i know Dany said she learned the life cost something to Mirri before burning her.

[Jack Bauer 24]

5 hours ago, khal drogon said:

I hate that they have made Dany fireproof. Drogo's pyre was one time magic which Martin has revealed that Dany herself caused the magic. I wish the showrunners made her kind of a fire sorceress who created the magic by burning the khals than making her having a super power.

The show is canon now until another book comes out, so it doesn't matter what was said almost two decades ago.

[watcher of the night]

On 2016. 05. 19. at 4:28 PM, Miss_Saffron said:

I think others did a pretty good job pointing how your interpretation of the criteria is significantly flawed.  

See, if I had criteria and interpretation it cannot be a "blind hate", why would I need criteria for that? Also could you quote those "others" who did a pretty good job, because I do not see anyone doing that.

[Vastet]

I'm one of those others. You can choose to ignore reality all you like, but don't expect anyone to follow you down the rabbit-hole.

[Maid So Fair]

3 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

Dany stated that she learned the "life equivalent exchange" for blood magic from Mirri. Which i don't have my GoT book with me, but i know Dany said she learned the life cost something to Mirri before burning her.

It's the 'equivalent' that's the issue here - it's very strongly implied that to achieve any significant results your sacrifice must be proportionate. If you don't give up something meaningful it's not truly a sacrifice and killing a bunch of assholes you hate anyway and whose life has no value to you is hardly a real sacrifice. If all it took to perform miraculous feats of magic was killing some people you don't like, everybody would be doing it.

[watcher of the night]

7 minutes ago, Vastet said:

I'm one of those others. You can choose to ignore reality all you like, but don't expect anyone to follow you down the rabbit-hole.

Haha, keep dreaming ... show me your post on those criteria. You have made none.

[Vastet]

You keep dreaming. And find my posts yourself.

[Elaena Targaryen]

21 hours ago, LifeRuiner said:

For party tricks. 

If seriously, I think the fireproofiness has served her well already and it saved her life. At least on two major occasions. 

Yes but I'm curious if it will play a role going forward and what others thought. Lol yea party tricks was the extent of my imagination but maybe it could tie into the three fires she must light from the books or does it mean she's AA or anything really I don't know. The show can be creative here if they wanted.

21 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

I doubt Dany is actually fireproof. She may have used blood magic to make herself look like one. Before, it happened due to Dany burning Mirri that enable Dany to be immune to fire once. Now she used the Khals' blood for the same reason.

I think that's a pretty cool idea. If that's the case Dany may discuss it and she would likely be able to do it again if necessary.

18 hours ago, TWR said:

So they could provide a "realistic" way for a 120 woman to take out a room full of hardened warriors alone & unarmed.

Could be but I hope they do something more with it since they went there. I just don't see what's so beneficial about it really except for the birth of the dragons so I want it to have more of an effect.

18 hours ago, WingedShadow said:

Because she is a true dragon. It's likely that other Targaryens also had this immunity, and some didn't liek Viserys.

I like that too but could you explain more fully what you mean by true dragon. Do you feel the Targaryens might not be quite human or maybe otherworldly? Or do you mean some mystical connection with the dragons? Just where on the magical spectrum do you place blood of the dragon? I've thought about this stuff before so I'm curious to see your thoughts.

[Maid So Fair]

8 hours ago, WingedShadow said:

At this point in time, Khalasars are getting larger and larger, so the number of Khals is dwindling. Makes sense to me. She weren't exactly following the Dothraki after Season 1, so plenty has happened off-screen they we might not know about.

The horse-heart eating is part of a pregnancy ceremony that all pregnant khaleesi undergo. It's meant to be a more public event.

The meeting of khals is, well, a meeting of khals. It's not a public event, it's a private meeting between a select few in the Dothraki.

I'm sorry,b ut where are you getting this information? As you say, we havent heard anything about the Dothraki since s1. 

And again, why should a big part of the Dothraki society care whether some khaleesi or another got banged up? Why is that a momentumous occasion  but no one cares to see the most important people in their society meeting and making real plans with real consequences for everybody?

7 hours ago, Vastet said:

"I'm not saying they're not the highest rank - I'm saying that being a Khal doesn't necessarily  mean you command tens of thousands of men."

Being a King doesn't necessarily mean you command tens of thousands of men. Stannis and Balon both called themselves King, and neither commanded that many people. Being a King simply means you give the orders, and take none (except in rare circumstances like when the church has power, or something else similar). It does not depend on how many people are under your command.

"Things must have happened off screen for this ti make sense doesn't really help. And the presence of bloodriders as well as the fact that the scene credits only three khals makes the already small number of 10 knows even smaller."

The scene credits mean nothing more than three Khal's spoke. If you rewatch the scene, you'll notice that only three Khal's spoke. It does not imply the rest weren't Khal's.

"Different how? Why should the Dothraki care more about whether Dany's child will be important than their battle plans for the foreseeable future?"

Because they have no say in what their Khal's plan for the future. This is not a celebration, it is strategy. Even democratic societies don't invite the people to watch or participate in government. Ancient barbaric societies would hardly be more enlightened.

A Khal becoming a father is a celebration for that Khal's Khalisaar. As is a Khal getting married. Under neither circumstance was every Khalisaar present. It is not a comparable event. If a world leader gets married or has children, they often celebrate with large parties with many people. But noone gets invited to a war room unless they earned the right to be there.

1, I'm glad you agreed with me about khals not necessrily having to have huge khalasars to earn the title. But of course, that begs the question - how many Dothraki do you think there are? Drogo's khalasar alone had 40k. Even if you go with a fairly conservative estimate of couple of 100k there should be ozens of khals. But somehow only a few are present, even though this was presented as the big gathering of khals. Maybe they should rename it to a private meet-of a fairly moderate number of khals? (PMOFMNOK for short)

How many people were in that scene? 10? 15? If Khal Moro brought his bloodriders along, so would have the other khals. That's 3-4 people per Khal, which places the number of khals participating in the great gathering that everyone kept going on about a grand total of fewer  than five. Five.

Th ey don't have to have a say. People have no say in what the king or their lord does either, but them announcing a sentence or going to war are public spectacles. Bread and circuses .Dany's ceremony clearly wasn't her khalasar only thing - else they could have had it anywhere, but it was considered crucial this happen in Vaes Dothrak to be witnesses by others. And they're not talking strategy - they're talking about what to do with Dany - people were keen to know about her pregnancy, but what happens to her now is suddenly uninteresting? 

 

[Vastet]

"1, I'm glad you agreed with me about khals not necessrily having to have huge khalasars to earn the title. But of course, that begs the question - how many Dothraki do you think there are? Drogo's khalasar alone had 40k. Even if you go with a fairly conservative estimate of couple of 100k there should be ozens of khals. But somehow only a few are present, even though this was presented as the big gathering of khals. Maybe they should rename it to a private meet-of a fairly moderate number of khals? (PMOFMNOK for short)"

I have no idea how many there are in show or book. In season 1 it was said that Drogo had 100k. Now in season 6 there's apparently only 100k in total, of all the Khalisaars combined. Clearly both cannot be true.

In the books they haven't gotten to the penultimate gathering of Dothraki yet, and I haven't read them recently enough to recall anything about numbers for Drogo or overall.

"How many people were in that scene? 10? 15? If Khal Moro brought his bloodriders along, so would have the other khals. That's 3-4 people per Khal, which places the number of khals participating in the great gathering that everyone kept going on about a grand total of fewer  than five. Five."

I don't believe any of those men were blood riders. They don't serve nearly as much purpose in the show as they do in the books. Basically just glorified bodyguards.

"Th ey don't have to have a say. People have no say in what the king or their lord does either, but them announcing a sentence or going to war are public spectacles. Bread and circuses .Dany's ceremony clearly wasn't her khalasar only thing - else they could have had it anywhere, but it was considered crucial this happen in Vaes Dothrak to be witnesses by others. And they're not talking strategy - they're talking about what to do with Dany - people were keen to know about her pregnancy, but what happens to her now is suddenly uninteresting?"

How could the Khal's even arrange for everyone to view the proceedings? Regardless of how many Khalisaars are there, I'm sure you'd agree that less than 1% of the Dothraki are Khals. There is no sound technology anywhere on the planet more advanced than a horn. It doesn't make sense that all the people COULD view the discussions, let alone that they would be invited to.

Announcements of war are bread and circuses when it comes to announcing it to the public, but not for deciding it. Not for planning it. For fear of espionage alone, such discussions are always reserved for the elite of the elite.

Dany's ceremony happened where it did because the Dosh Khaleen had to oversee and approve it.

They are discussing everything from strategy to minutiae. When the scene opens, they are discussing the finding of Aggo's corpse. After that matter is settled, they call in Dany as the next subject of discussion. If they hadn't all been killed, after her future was setted they would have gone on to the next subject, whatever that might have been.

[watcher of the night]

48 minutes ago, Vastet said:

You keep dreaming. And find my posts yourself.

You clearly made no post on the Mary Sue criteria.

[Vastet]

""You clearly made no post on the Mary Sue criteria"

I made at least two posts on the Mary Sue criteria. Thanks for proving you have no argument.

[watcher of the night]

5 minutes ago, Vastet said:

""You clearly made no post on the Mary Sue criteria"

I made at least two posts on the Mary Sue criteria. Thanks for proving you have no argument.

But none about the two paragraph I posted and the numbered list. I were refering to that when you started bragging about something that you never done ...

[Vastet]

"But none about the two paragraph I posted and the numbered list. I were refering to that when you started bragging about something that you never done ..."

Your list was ridiculous. I had no need to comment on it.

[watcher of the night]

12 minutes ago, Vastet said:

"But none about the two paragraph I posted and the numbered list. I were refering to that when you started bragging about something that you never done ..."

Your list was ridiculous. I had no need to comment on it.

Haha ... I guessed this would be your detailed response ...