Jairion Lannister Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Considering his knowledge on various subjects, I'd be very surprised if Varys doesn't, at the very least, have a strong suspicion. I don't think LF knows, though. He likely enjoys the idea of Ned not being honourable to the point where he much prefers the thought of him having fathered a bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Pile-O-Starks said: You seem fun. Tell ya what - why don't you try to actually enjoy the books instead of getting your jollies from being a pretend hardass to folks on the internet? Betcha you can't. Why would someone prefer to not be highborn? Because people will try to kill you (all Starks). Because you get used as a bargaining chip (Sansa). Because you'd much prefer to do non-highborn things (Arya). Just as an example. I'm not saying that anybody would rather be a lowborn peasant, but there are plenty of reasons that being a merchant or blacksmith would be preferable to being a noble in ASOIAF. Anyway, I've read the books 3 times, and in my opinion GRRM makes a big enough deal about who the Kettleblack clan is and where they came from that it should be questioned. I am not saying that Oswell is Whent. Just that he might be. EDIT: Also, this is how Kettleblack is listed in the appendix in AFFC and ADWD: "OSWELL, a grizzled man-at-arms in Lord Petyr’s service, sometimes called KETTLEBLACK" His real last name is not Kettleblack. The only other people who get the "sometimes called" treatment in AFFC are LSH and Robert Arryn. Only Kettleblack gets it in ADWD. There's something up. I'm glad you think I'm fun And how do you know I'm a pretend hardass? You don't even know I'm a dog The reasons you give, well, they are a good try, and even applicable to the Starks, but since you can't give any reason why Oswell would hide his birth, he is just a man loyal to Littlefinger. The author makes a big deal about who Oswell is because he is part of Petyr's scheme. That is the big deal. Father and sons are all part of Petyr playing the game of thrones. So, why say something outlandish like, Oswell is actually a member of Aerys' kingsguard who was supposedly killed by Ned and co 17 years ago if you didn't think it was true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pile-O-Starks Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, Dorian Martell said: I'm glad you think I'm fun And how do you know I'm a pretend hardass? You don't even know I'm a dog The reasons you give, well, they are a good try, and even applicable to the Starks, but since you can't give any reason why Oswell would hide his birth, he is just a man loyal to Littlefinger. The author makes a big deal about who Oswell is because he is part of Petyr's scheme. That is the big deal. Father and sons are all part of Petyr playing the game of thrones. So, why say something outlandish like, Oswell is actually a member of Aerys' kingsguard who was supposedly killed by Ned and co 17 years ago if you didn't think it was true? I didn't say it was true. I said it might be true. You recognize the difference, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oopeed Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 LF is an absolute no no... At the time he was just a piece of crap nobody respected that was alive just because of pity. People like to give LF way too much credit when he has exhibited his ignorance disregarding Dany, outright ignoring Varys plotting with Targaryens and fake Targaryens, pretty much ignorant of the true state of the North because he's too busy just being full of himself. Varys may know or suspect something was fishy, but apparently knew nothing... Let's say he knew, why would he risk leaving alive someone who could have a bigger claim to the IT than his Targaryen King or princes? And why not bring the issue when Ned was in KL to use it for his own agenda? The war was a period of chaos with news coming from almost every corner of the realm, some news could easily escape his web.... Besides Rhaegar had to know that he had to find some place out of the radar to elope, and likely only trusted people were allowed in the ToJ thus no one got wind of it (like no one got wind of Robb's will or the survival of the Stark boys), thus he'd be completely out of the loop, more worried on how to keep his fragile position at court. TL;DR Varys and LF ain't Sauron with his eye that pierces clouds mountains and flesh to keep watch over Middle Earth... you're entitled to like them, but they ain't god... The ToJ event unlike most, involved people whose loyalties were absolute and in a location far from prying eyes. (Just like the Stark children escape or the redaction of Robb's secret will) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 People forget how much Jon favors Ned's side of the family. Varys might have had questions at first, but when he was so clearly of the North and there is no way to prove it, it becomes irrelevant to him, moreso when Ned dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 On 5/21/2016 at 7:36 PM, Pile-O-Starks said: I didn't say it was true. I said it might be true. You recognize the difference, surely. Not at all, please explain said difference in a long winded and baroque way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I don't think neither Varys or LF know but i think varys has the clues he just didn't add them up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying mosquito Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 On 20 de mayo de 2016 at 9:53 PM, Sensenmenn said: Because I believe little finger has been working for blood Raven ever since he was cut open by Brandon stark. A near death experience like that allows him to be contacted by Blood Raven and he's been his tool in the south ever since. Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_of_the_black Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 On 5/18/2016 at 9:01 AM, Gylfi Gylfi Gylfi said: Does anyone think that Varys or Littlefinger know about Jon's real identity? It seems like one of them should have pieced it together. Rhaegar and Lyanna spend a year together, Lyanna dies, the honourable Ned Stark comes back with a bastard - surely Varys would have figured it out? Somebody besides Ned and howland has to know! Or at least have an idea about it.. It's too obvious, if anybody just thought about, even if lyanna was kidnapped and raped like everybody thinks, the pieces fit too perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 Littlefinger definitely not , but Varys may suspect , but since Ned claimed Jon as his son it is immaterial . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fishbiscuit Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 I think Varys probably would know, for all the reasons @Greg B said above. He wouldn't need to do anything about it just the same as he didn't need to do anything about Robert's bastard's - a bastard is not a threat to the throne, especially one so hidden and far away as Jon, who doesn't even know of his origins. Varys even helps Gendry IIRC. Dany and (f)Aegon are different as they have potentially legitimate claims to the throne. Jon doesn't have any claim without being legitimised by a King and what King is going to legitimise Jon as a Targ when it would put their own position at risk? It's possible Varys would keep knowledge of Jon in his back pocket as a possible last ditch attempt to get a Targ back on the throne if things didn't work out with the other 2. If this is the case, he wouldn't want to show his hand too early in this, including showing Ned that he knows. just my thoughts, and I also don't think Jon is destined to be a king of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 On 5/20/2016 at 3:37 PM, Dorian Martell said: how about you write your own book instead of poorly rewriting Geroge's............ He is from a house sworn to Petyr Baelish. you know that if you read the books instead of trying to rewrite them Name one and say why it would fit the character without referencing a theory Betcha you can't Lol...if YOU read the books you would know that Baelish was the lord of a little sliver of land with a small village and a few sheep on it. He has no houses sworn to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permaximum Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I'm positive Baelish knows it. I don't know how he got the information but he knew Ned as such a stubborn honorable man and Rheagar as a good and kind man. He probably suspected it and tried to get a confirmation for it. He didn't use the information since he liked to see Ned's image suffer even a bit and he knew Targaryens were nearly extinct. Jon wouldn't have a claim for it while the Starks were standing and the realm was in order. I believe at this point of the story, it's the perfect time for him to reveal it to Jon. Baelish is going to back Jon and Sansa until Varys and Daenerys come to Westeros and reveal Baelish for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 No. If he knew, Varys would not have left things as is. could ruin his plans for fAegon, even if Jon's can't claim the IT. I suppose Ned's reputation was sufficient to not question his words. Even if he never said "he is my son". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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