Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fraction [Spoilers]s

[Kalbear]

Oh yeah, I think he's too committed to it to not write it. It would be hard for him to back down. I'm just saying that another 10 years of waiting is probably more likely than less. 

Also, iirc everything he wrote before 2010 was before he became a parent, and that changed a lot for his routine. As well as the kind of chances he can take.

[themerchant]

TUC just missed a deadline, the last 3 years have mostly been dead time due to a publisher. Self-publishing removes all of that.

I don't remember hearing 2 years for proofs or anything like that. Can you link me to the source material for all this info. I've never read it. Must have missed an interview. He missed a deadline and never really got slotted back in till the "cants of calling" to Overlook.

[Hello World]

That's the first I've heard about him missing a deadline. Bakker finished the first draft of TUC late 2013 and then delivered the manuscript to his publisher early 2014 and said that he will give us more details once everything is settled with his publisher. Then for the next year and a half or so he kept making updates every few months saying 'I don't have an editor yet'.

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, themerchant said:

TUC just missed a deadline, the last 3 years have mostly been dead time due to a publisher. Self-publishing removes all of that.

I don't remember hearing 2 years for proofs or anything like that. Can you link me to the source material for all this info. I've never read it. Must have missed an interview. He missed a deadline and never really got slotted back in till the "cants of calling" to Overlook.

Yeah, there was no deadline that I'm aware of. It had to do with turning in the thing in 2014 after getting feedback from some folks like madness and then waiting. And waiting.

The point here is that those two years are still time for him to write. He wasn't just revising TUC at that point and could have been working on other books. Apparently he was, maybe? Dunno. The observable truth is that prior to his taking a job and having a child he put out a book a year. After those events he put out a book in no less than 3 years, and this was one he had already written some on.

Self publishing doesn't solve that.

And self publishing doesn't solve the issue of making much money for it and justifying the time commitment either.

[themerchant]

44 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yeah, there was no deadline that I'm aware of. It had to do with turning in the thing in 2014 after getting feedback from some folks like madness and then waiting. And waiting.

The point here is that those two years are still time for him to write. He wasn't just revising TUC at that point and could have been working on other books. Apparently he was, maybe? Dunno. The observable truth is that prior to his taking a job and having a child he put out a book a year. After those events he put out a book in no less than 3 years, and this was one he had already written some on.

Self publishing doesn't solve that.

And self publishing doesn't solve the issue of making much money for it and justifying the time commitment either.

I'll state my understanding, and then source the info later as a bit pushed for time atm.

He said he missed a deadline. Then that missed his run and he was sort of in Limbo. (i'll go find the post or wait until madness can maybe help lol)

I cannot see how the above demonstrates it will be 10 years "probably" more. He has been writing some of the last series already as well. Some is already written. It seems to be this is all conjecture as opposed to educated guessing. I thought it was the latter, since it's the former then not much to discuss.

[themerchant]

1 hour ago, Hello World said:

That's the first I've heard about him missing a deadline. Bakker finished the first draft of TUC late 2013 and then delivered the manuscript to his publisher early 2014 and said that he will give us more details once everything is settled with his publisher. Then for the next year and a half or so he kept making updates every few months saying 'I don't have an editor yet'.

I have a memory of Bakker bemoaning missing a deadline. It might be false. Good thing is this can actually be checked so i'll go and look.

" .My delay turning the manuscript in and the quick turnover of editorial staff in the industry means that no one was up to speed on the series–but six months on from submission, "

Incidentally above isn't the quote i had in mind, it was just his announcement about the publishing, it was the first place i went to look.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/3eyovn/what_happened_to_the_prince_of_nothing_series_is/

Discussed in reddit as well.

Sorry busy at the moment. I'll try and source the actual quote later.

[themerchant]

10 hours ago, kuenjato said:

That said, I agree anywhere from 5-10 years is a likely guess.

5-10 is what i think. at least 10 probably more isn't what i think.

[themerchant]

13 hours ago, Kalbear said:

@MadnessIf- but more importantly (I think) it's hard to write 600,000 words on a story that isn't paying squat. I know I would have a hard time justifying that kind of time commitment to my family.

Says the person with 40k+ posts on this site alone. 15 words a post and then you have your story. Just from one source. I'm sure he'll manage.

[Kalbear]

I strongly suspect that the market for Internet posts by guy on Westeros as a marketable book is not that great. Then again, Chuck tingle manages to put out books at a high rate, so it's clear that that level of quality is achievable.

[themerchant]

7 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I strongly suspect that the market for Internet posts by guy on Westeros as a marketable book is not that great. Then again, Chuck tingle manages to put out books at a high rate, so it's clear that that level of quality is achievable.

I was more laughing at the lack of self awareness when writing this about Bakker.

" it's hard to write 600,000 words on a story that isn't paying squat. I know I would have a hard time justifying that kind of time commitment to my family. "

When one has written over 40,000 posts on one message board alone.

[Kalbear]

And I was pointing out that writing a 600000 word story isn't the same as writing posts on message boards. The difference is that I'm using the evidence of bakker's productivity writing novels as an indication of his writing speed; you're using the evidence of my post count as an indication of his writing speed. Which of the two seems to be more correlative?

[themerchant]

34 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

And I was pointing out that writing a 600000 word story isn't the same as writing posts on message boards. The difference is that I'm using the evidence of bakker's productivity writing novels as an indication of his writing speed; you're using the evidence of my post count as an indication of his writing speed. Which of the two seems to be more correlative?

I'm talking about not being able to justify writing 600k words to finish your lives work to your family, while you could have anywhere as many 100k posts on the net which you justify no problem. I find this really funny.

I'm laughing at that. That is all. I'm not stating they are the same. I'm not comparing productivity. I'm sure you have reasons for not finding it as funny as me. I'm not comparing writing speeds at all. This isn't about what is more correlative. It's about how one cannot justify to their family the time sink needed to complete their lives work, but can justify writing tens of thousands of random posts. You said you couldn't justify it, labelled it "more importantly" Not even talking about Bakker.

This is really funny to me, i'm sure you have reasons why i shouldn't find it funny, but i do. that is all, not comparing writing speeds, not saying one post of yours equals X words of him, or any other straw-man.

[Kalbear]

Okay. Sounds fine to me.

I suspect talking about justifications for my Internet behavior, while really funny, aren't all that useful for others reading about the great ordeal, so I'll stop my participation in this thread. If you would like to continue talking about me feel free to. Alternately if you're curious why I might not find it quite as funny right now and what my personal circumstances are that would somewhat explain my posting behavior are, feel free to PM me.

 

Apologies for the derailment.

[themerchant]

6 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Okay. Sounds fine to me.

I suspect talking about justifications for my Internet behavior, while really funny, aren't all that useful for others reading about the great ordeal, so I'll stop my participation in this thread. If you would like to continue talking about me feel free to. Alternately if you're curious why I might not find it quite as funny right now and what my personal circumstances are that would somewhat explain my posting behavior are, feel free to PM me.

I'm not curious.

No need to get all defensive, I was just laughing, not like i called you misogynistic or anything. Just mentioned you had a lot of posts. I have 20k on another board myself. I thought since you dished out you could take, i didn't realise the error in my thinking. I'll correct my behavior to you in future.

[themerchant]

The one little detail that jumped out for me was how the Niom is "honoured" in every arc bar Kellhus.

Thel/Kel as sister/brother Esme is an enemy

Mimara/Koringus with Akka

The original trio of Moe/Serwe and Sorweel.

 

[Werthead]

Bakker's writing speed seems to be fine: he's far faster than Rothfuss, GRRM or Kay, and he seems to have turned the last book around faster than Erikson managed his last one. It's just the interminable delays waiting for the editors to get their arses in gear. I suspect Bakker could still write a 200,000 word novel from scratch in about 18-24 months fairly straightforwardly.

However, the big issue may be motivation. I completed the 66,000-word first draft of my history of epic fantasy early this year. My agent has taken it to publishers but no-one has bitten. I should be revising and finishing it for self-publication, but so much other stuff has come up that it's been easy to put it on the backburner in the hope a publisher does take a look and put some money on the table. This may even be self-defeating, since the book may do better (or make me more profit individually) if I self e-publish. But there's still a massive motivational difference between having money in your account and a contract on the wall and having to do everything yourself.

1 hour ago, themerchant said:

When one has written over 40,000 posts on one message board alone.

Over the course of close to a decade and a half, I believe in Kal's case, and posts on a message board are not comparable to writing fiction. GRRM smashed out 300,000 words for The World of Ice and Fire in under 4 months, which earned some ire about his writing speed on TWoW, but that was because writing fictional history is still a lot easier than characterisation and dialogue in a novel format.

[themerchant]

13 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Over the course of close to a decade and a half, I believe in Kal's case, and posts on a message board are not comparable to writing fiction. GRRM smashed out 300,000 words for The World of Ice and Fire in under 4 months, which earned some ire about his writing speed on TWoW, but that was because writing fictional history is still a lot easier than characterisation and dialogue in a novel format.

I can't remember making a claim that they were comparable(beyond they both take time). You're the 2nd person to say that to me, I've went back and checked and cannot find me saying that. What's causing this mix up, do you know? why do you think I'm comparing them? What qualities am i comparing? That you say they cannot be compared.

I was laughing at not being able to justify finishing your life's work as a unpaid time sink, to ones family. While simultaneously having no problem writing tens of thousands of random posts on the net over the years, The timeline given was "at least 10 years" to finish 2 books. Which could be "close to a decade and a half" anyway. Not that any of that matters it was funny to me. Being comparable in that they both take time is the only context needed as it was time that was given as the problem.

 

[JGP]

28 minutes ago, themerchant said:

I can't remember making a claim that they were comparable(beyond they both take time). You're the 2nd person to say that to me, I've went back and checked and cannot find me saying that. What's causing this mix up, do you know? why do you think I'm comparing them? What qualities am i comparing? That you say they cannot be compared.

I was laughing at not being able to justify finishing your life's work as a unpaid time sink, to ones family. While simultaneously having no problem writing tens of thousands of random posts on the net over the years, The timeline given was "at least 10 years" to finish 2 books. Which could be "close to a decade and a half" anyway. Not that any of that matters it was funny to me. Being comparable in that they both take time is the only context needed as it was time that was given as the problem.

Well, I'd say you're putting words in Kal's mouth. He was talking about impediments, not prohibitions. Things that would sap the will, not negate it. Wert expanded on it, and none of it is necessarily untrue. Depends on Bakker.

When I made fun of Kal on that, I was referring to Bakker's own recently posted thoughts about Kal elsewhere. It was in good humor. Not sure about yours. 

[themerchant]

28 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Well, I'd say you're putting words in Kal's mouth. He was talking about impediments, not prohibitions. Things that would sap the will, not negate it. Wert expanded on it, and none of it is necessarily untrue. Depends on Bakker.

When I made fun of Kal on that, I was referring to Bakker's own recently posted thoughts about Kal elsewhere. It was in good humor. Not sure about yours. 

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't accept that interpretation of the text. YMMV. 

Anyway...

Akka picked a bad week to give up Qirri.

Akka seems in a bad way mentally at the end of the that excerpt. The Qirri normally dulls stuff but he's info overloaded.

Mimara has two chorae on her so he isn't safe from them being procured and used against him.

I'd sort of thought Akka may travel to Ishterbenith. Coming to the rescue of The Great Ordeal with the rest of the Nonmen and Serwe etc.

However after the new information and the hint of more revelations i'm not so sure.

 

[JGP]

Hahaha...