Summer not dead?

[Forlong the Fat]

2 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Yes they Lady and Greywind deaths happen in the books at the hands of GRRM himself, but there is meaning and purpose behind them.  They hurt all the same but I guarantee you, the Umbers won't just plop Shaggy's head on a table.  He will have gone out a soldier.  

Like Lady did?

[mattnj81]

I would say again, for the record, that everything suggests Summer is in fact dead. It just struck me as odd that they showed the exact spot he died, but no body. So I'm just hoping it was a fake out, despite the fact that it's unlikely. That's all.

[mattnj81]

2 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Like Lady did?

Lady's death had no meaning? A wolf of the North, killed at the order of a Baratheon king? A wolf who deserved better than a butcher? Nothing????

[GeorgeIAF]

1 minute ago, mattnj81 said:

I would say again, for the record, that everything suggests Summer is in fact dead. It just struck me as odd that they showed the exact spot he died, but no body. So I'm just hoping it was a fake out, despite the fact that it's unlikely. That's all.

Yea, fake-Summer. Come on man, you're clutching at straws.

[mattnj81]

3 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

So your point has changed.  At the beginning it was that killing Summer didn't show respect for the "importance of dire wolves."  Now it's that the relationship between wolves and Starks hasn't been fully developed.  Of course that's true, along with many other relationships because, again, the books are thousands of pages long.  Additionally, the difficulty of including wolves in scenes filmed for a television show seems fairly obvious, and explains why they wolves aren't just hanging around a lot.

My point hasn't changed at all. 

[mattnj81]

2 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said:

Yea, fake-Summer. Come on man, you're clutching at straws.

I didn't say it was a fake summer, just that he survived his wounds. Again, very unlikely and I said earlier that I am in fact grasping at straws.

[Nymeria's pack]

18 minutes ago, mattnj81 said:

I'm betting Nymeria is the only wolf to survive all the way to the end, books and show.

I see her getting close but not right to the end. Ghost possibly.  But I think there will be a direwolf pup or two. Although maybe not in the show. 

[GeorgeIAF]

Ghost is hinted to be the alpha of the group, i really think that Ghost will survive until the end and i also believe we'll also see more direwolves than those of the Starks.

[mattnj81]

3 minutes ago, Nymeria's pack said:

I see her getting close but not right to the end. Ghost possibly.  But I think there will be a direwolf pup or two. Although maybe not in the show. 

A new set of wolf pups could be a cool touch at the end of the story. I actually think Nymeria has a better shot than Ghost, but we'll see.

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

11 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Like Lady did?

Of course it meant something.  As I said Bran's push aside because they didn't know he was pushed, that was the first time Ned realizes his friend Robert hasnt changed and the 1st known blow from the Lannisters against the Starks.  Again they didn't know Bran had been pushed yet, so Lady is the first known domino to fall.  Ned chooses to do it himself and it represents the beginning of the end of Sansa's childhood.  It was powerful, it was the first piece of the Stark armor to take a hit.  It was done right in the show too, it meant something.  Greywind in the books, his death was tragic and symbolic too.  Him being able to sense impending doom, trying to warn Robb who usually listened to him but didn't this time, and he should have, and then Greywind fighting until the end.  

I could have accepted Summer's more if he would have put up a better fight against 6 skeletons, that was just wrong, and we won't even get into Shaggy.  That was just fucked up. 

[Nymeria's pack]

8 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Like Lady did?

Lady was a very different wolf.  She was gentle and trusting. Shaggydog was wild.

Anyway I think the point was that Shaggydog won't get such an unceremonious end in the books. 

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

To me it seems that when D&D have source material to go off of they do a decent job of conveying it but when they adapt and change and have to make their own stuff it isn't very good a lot of the time.  Just one man's opinion.  

[Neffaria]

1 hour ago, mattnj81 said:

I don't really buy that. Are the wolves more expensive than the dragons, or the army of zombies, or the Dothraki horde? I doubt it's a budget thing.

 

 

 

from what I understand where they film has zero access to wolves, there was a scene with ghost that apparently was filmed near me in canada. Because they use real animals as well as CGI to green screen and make them bigger. so apparently its a bigger deal than just CGI/budget its also a time sink when you're sending crew to do the filming, paying a handler to train the animal to learn the scene etc. (see article about ghost) . http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/game-of-thrones-casts-alberta-wolf-as-jon-snow-s-canine-companion-1.3078253

They've axed so much in terms of the direwolves, and I seem to recall in early days of the show D&d mentioned that the wolves were a major pain in their ass. so Im not shocked that any chance they get to either omit or delete or even kill off wolves that they'll take it. at this point Im happy not to see ghost or Nymeria because at least that means they're still alive. next wolf to be seen on screen is SERIOUSLY gonna give me a panic attack.

 

. 

[Neffaria]

5 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

To me it seems that when D&D have source material to go off of they do a decent job of conveying it but when they adapt and change and have to make their own stuff it isn't very good a lot of the time.  Just one man's opinion.  

 

 

totally agree. a lot of this seasons awesomest moments were still either "on book" or "on preview chapters" or "based on a long conversation with George telling them the story about a  door." whereas a lot of the  major gaping plot holes, and some of the more boring bits all tended to be the "off book" or "deviations from the book" stuff. 

[mattnj81]

5 minutes ago, Neffaria said:

 

from what I understand where they film has zero access to wolves, there was a scene with ghost that apparently was filmed near me in canada. Because they use real animals as well as CGI to green screen and make them bigger. so apparently its a bigger deal than just CGI/budget its also a time sink when you're sending crew to do the filming, paying a handler to train the animal to learn the scene etc. (see article about ghost) . http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/game-of-thrones-casts-alberta-wolf-as-jon-snow-s-canine-companion-1.3078253

They've axed so much in terms of the direwolves, and I seem to recall in early days of the show D&d mentioned that the wolves were a major pain in their ass. so Im not shocked that any chance they get to either omit or delete or even kill off wolves that they'll take it. at this point Im happy not to see ghost or Nymeria because at least that means they're still alive. next wolf to be seen on screen is SERIOUSLY gonna give me a panic attack.

 

. 

This is good info. If the wolves were too hard to realisticaly create and had to go, then so be it. But two off-screen, unceremonious (particularly with Shaggydog) deaths? Even for D&D that's a new low.

[Hangover of the Morning]

1 minute ago, mattnj81 said:

This is good info. If the wolves were too hard to realisticaly create and had to go, then so be it. But two off-screen, unceremonious (particularly with Shaggydog) deaths? Even for D&D that's a new low.

What do you mean off-screen? Would you prefer to watch Summer to be ripped into pieces?

[Neffaria]

1 minute ago, mattnj81 said:

This is good info. If the wolves were too hard to realisticaly create and had to go, then so be it. But two off-screen, unceremonious (particularly with Shaggydog) deaths? Even for D&D that's a new low.

 

100% !!!!!!!   at least with Summer the death was noble and on screen. shaggy dog?? I was SOOOOOO MAD. like ffs at least give the DIrewolves a proper nod when they're going out.

[mattnj81]

1 minute ago, Hangover of the Morning said:

What do you mean off-screen? Would you prefer to watch Summer to be ripped into pieces?

YES DAMMIT. No seriously, I just mean he kills one wight, then gets swarmed as the camera pans away and achieves nothing before getting killed? That's poop. If this was the first dire wolf death they'd screwed up it would just be overlooked. It's number three, and just a few episodes after dropping Shaggy dog's head on a table. 

[Hangover of the Morning]

Just now, mattnj81 said:

YES DAMMIT. No seriously, I just mean he kills one wight, then gets swarmed as the camera pans away and achieves nothing before getting killed? That's poop. If this was the first dire wolf death they'd screwed up it would just be overlooked. It's number three, and just a few episodes after dropping Shaggy dog's head on a table. 

Unless he's able to torch them, he wouldn't be able to truly kill them anyways. What does it matter if he kills a few whites or none at all before he dies? Either way wont' make his death any less sad or impactful. Summer gave Bran and Meera the precious few seconds that enabled them to escape and losing him will likely have large consequences for Bran.

[dbunting]

3 minutes ago, mattnj81 said:

YES DAMMIT. No seriously, I just mean he kills one wight, then gets swarmed as the camera pans away and achieves nothing before getting killed? That's poop. If this was the first dire wolf death they'd screwed up it would just be overlooked. It's number three, and just a few episodes after dropping Shaggy dog's head on a table. 

You missed what he did then. They all stopped advancing to Bran because they had to kill Summer first. That bought Meera time to drag Bran away. Summer sacrificed himself to save Bran, how much more noble could it be?

Who are we to say they screwed it up? It's their story to tell, just because it doesn't match the version we have built up in our heads doesn't mean it's screwed up. You, me, and everyone other than GRRM have no idea what will happen with Summer, we are all guessing.