Is Dany becoming a megalomaniac? Is Bran?

[sj4iy]

7 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

I was talking about the first reply to this thread, not what the director said. Godwin's law applies to internet arguments.

As a Dany-fan, if I wasn't horrified at all the other stuff she's done... why would I be horrified now? To be honest: I was a little let down she didn't reclaim Astapor or Yunkai. I wanted to see fire and blood. This wasn't like when she claimed the Unsullied.  This was the promise of action, not action.

But I get it: This is proof that Dany is going to break bad soon and turn evil.

I know what a Targaryen dragonlord is capable of. I'm excited to see what she does next. She's done nothing to sway my opinion of her just yet.

I'm saying that if the director is making comparisons to Hitler, then people bringing up comparisons to Hitler in their arguments has merit and does not qualify under Godwin's law because the director clearly saw some similarities and very likely drew some inspiration from them.

[Darksky]

Daenerys is now a full blown narcissist. And Bran's getting there.

[RoamingRonin]

3 hours ago, sj4iy said:

I'm saying that if the director is making comparisons to Hitler, then people bringing up comparisons to Hitler in their arguments has merit and does not qualify under Godwin's law because the director clearly saw some similarities and very likely drew some inspiration from them.

Godwin's Law applies to internet arguments. Please look it up. And just because someone says something you agree with doesn't mean it has merit. 

The showrunners say stuff all the time that's dismissed out of hand but now we're clinging to their every word? Confirmation bias FTW.

[El Guapo]

I personally can't wait until Dany starts tearing some shit up in Westeros.

 

 

[Panther2000]

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Woman of War said:

I only can talk about Dany because I felt rather troubled. Bear in mind that her character is definitely one of my favorites 

When Dany made her stirring speech I got the vibe of Hitler's Sportpalast Total War Speech. Here she is not the breaker of chains but the conqueror of a continent. Westeros has as much use for her as for any High Lord or Lady or for any High House, be it Lannister, Targaeryen, Stark or Tyrell. She brings war to people who have not waited for her nor any other ruler but who care about their children surviving, about harvest, rain and sun, paraphrasing Jorah.

Hitler made his speech before a carefully selected audience who was certain to cheer for his total war.. Dany here does not promise freedom to slaves but instrumentalises a people for her cause, feeding them lunatic ideas of greatness. See the similarities.

	"I ask you: Do you want total war? If necessary, do you want a war more total and radical than anything that we can even yet imagine? [......] Now, people rise up and let the storm break loose!" Feb 18, 1943

Only I believe and I hope that Dany herself will learn her lesson and will turn all her force against the real enemy. We all hope that but in that speech terror came with a beautiful face.

I feel the same way in regards to Dani.  I have been off her train sense half way through season 2.  She seems to be turning more & more into her brother season by season.  It is very well good and all the get rid of slavery, however she had nothing to put in it's place.  You know that you are barking up the wrong tree, When the slaves ask you to sold back into slavery.    I think that she means well, but like ROB with each victory her head gets bigger & bigger.  I just wonder how she is going to get the Dorthaki(sp) to stay in line when they go to war?  They will want their spoils, that is there way of life, even Khal Drogo tried to expalin this too her.    I will just say that without her Dragons, she would be just like her brother. 

 

As for Bran,  unlike Dani he isn't seeking to rule or such.   This Greenseeing was put upon him.  I don't know what to think about him right now because, this just came out about his time traveling, and this is show.  I am pretty sure that the Book is going to much more different.  I can only go by the TV show right now. There are just too many question in regards to bran right now.  Is it him going back trying to fix things that cause the mess, or is he trying alter things in favor of his family that caused this mess.  I am keeping hope alive for Bran, bu I can see him going down that same street as dani.

[Panther2000]

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 9:02 AM, blckp said:

slave trading is innocent yeah , she is wrong to stop slave trade? are you serious

You are correct, she was not wrong to stop the slave trade, However you have to have something to put in it's place.  Even Tyrion knew that.   Just look at todays state of affairs.  Dani did a great thing, however when she left each place, they went right back to business as usual, and I bet that the slaves were treated even worse than before because of her.

[Panther2000]

41 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

I personally can't wait until Dany starts tearing some shit up in Westeros.

 

 

Yeah, I can't wait for them to get their, in Winter with out proper clothing, being sea sick & White Walkers approaching.  I think that even Dani will have to see the bigger picture & fall in line & join the group to take on the White Walkers.  Dani doesn't have powers to raise the dead thousands at a time.  I have said it before, there will be no Iron Throne to fight over, seven kindgoms will go the way of Europe.  Like it was before they were taken over.  

I can't wait until a Doratki or unsully see a White Walker for the 1st time

[sj4iy]

2 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

Godwin's Law applies to internet arguments. Please look it up. And just because someone says something you agree with doesn't mean it has merit. 

The showrunners say stuff all the time that's dismissed out of hand but now we're clinging to their every word? Confirmation bias FTW.

I know very well what Godwin's Law is.  You don't have to tell me to 'look it up'.

But if a show is clearly drawing some inspiration from Hitler's speeches and the director even says that the parallels are there, then it's not "you automatically lose the argument because you mentioned Hitler" for bringing up the parallels in an online debate.  That's not how Godwin's Law works.

[Greymoon]

On 30/05/2016 at 6:42 PM, khal drogon said:

What makes you to think she is hellbent on utter destruction? 

Another set of pillaging barbarians is on the way to take Winterfell. But the show would make them goody goody because Jon's leading them. Dothraki are similar in their raping, pillaging ways  to the wildlings but they are lead by a person who abbhors rape and have a compassion for common people, who has earned Dothraki's respect and has a bloody dragon. That speech meant she was finally ready to destroy her enemies in their stone castles. What's wrong with that? I have seen people wishing for the dreadfort and the twins razed to the ground. When Dany wants that it means she is hitler and will burn her way through and let Dothraki run wild? 

Robert Baratheon is dead, Jon Arryn and Eddard Stark are dead...Hoster Tully and Tywin Lannister are dead. Who are Dany's "enemies"?

She's speaking about destroying people who have barely ever heard of her, just because she was born with the last name "Targaryen".... and it's not like Robert's Rebellion happened for no reason, it was legit to rebel against the Mad King....

What is she even hoping to achieve by conquering that throne? How can she presume to be a better ruler than whoever will sit on it when she enters the game?

She won't raze the twins to the ground, the Blackfish will....so Brynden and Edmure Tully will be her "enemies" if they refuse to bend the knee to her? Jon and Sansa will be her enemies, if they do not yield Winterfell to her, after winning it back from the Boltons?

Sansa and Jon have a legitimate reason to go against Ramsay. He has Rickon Stark, and his definition of ruling is to intimidate people with the threat of torture. He's a psychopath. He also threatened them, personally. And House Bolton betrayed their liege. Furthermore, they have true emotional ties to winterfell, because they grew up there. It's their home... Dany's home is in Essos, as it's always been. 

As too similarities between wildlings and Dothraki...Wildlings don't generally reduce people to slavery, their views on women differ from that of the Dothraki, too: they have Spearwives and other warrior women....and, going by Ygritte, some women enjoy relative sexual freedom... The Dothraki are slavers and their own women are treated like possessions - slave women are treated even worse... they are also a nomadic people.

All in all, settling the Dothraki in westeros is rather problematic, because they are so culturally different from westerosi.... the wildlings, at least, share history and religion with northerners and are not usually nomadic.

[khal drogon]

49 minutes ago, Greymoon said:

Robert Baratheon is dead, Jon Arryn and Eddard Stark are dead...Hoster Tully and Tywin Lannister are dead. Who are Dany's "enemies"?

She's speaking about destroying people who have barely ever heard of her, just because she was born with the last name "Targaryen".... and it's not like Robert's Rebellion happened for no reason, it was legit to rebel against the Mad King....

What is she even hoping to achieve by conquering that throne? How can she presume to be a better ruler than whoever will sit on it when she enters the game?

She won't raze the twins to the ground, the Blackfish will....so Brynden and Edmure Tully will be her "enemies" if they refuse to bend the knee to her? Jon and Sansa will be her enemies, if they do not yield Winterfell to her, after winning it back from the Boltons?

Sansa and Jon have a legitimate reason to go against Ramsay. He has Rickon Stark, and his definition of ruling is to intimidate people with the threat of torture. He's a psychopath. He also threatened them, personally. And House Bolton betrayed their liege. Furthermore, they have true emotional ties to winterfell, because they grew up there. It's their home... Dany's home is in Essos, as it's always been. 

As too similarities between wildlings and Dothraki...Wildlings don't generally reduce people to slavery, their views on women differ from that of the Dothraki, too: they have Spearwives and other warrior women....and, going by Ygritte, some women enjoy relative sexual freedom... The Dothraki are slavers and their own women are treated like possessions - slave women are treated even worse... they are also a nomadic people.

All in all, settling the Dothraki in westeros is rather problematic, because they are so culturally different from westerosi.... the wildlings, at least, share history and religion with northerners and are not usually nomadic.

Simple her enemies are people who are currently holding the throne. 

No it's not like Robert's rebellion. More like Stannis war for the throne. She has the exact same motivation as him fighting for  the throne.

She wants to achieve exact same as what Starks wants to achieve after winning Winterfell or Yara wants to achieve after winning the Iron Islands. 

Yeah people who don't yield will be her enemies. Remember she is fighting for a throne. 

Dany feels Westeros is her home. Having physically never been there does not mean she could never have any emotional connection to Westeros. In fact pre GOT Dany's only wish is to go home. If you feel she feels Essos is her home, then you are not paying attention.

Wildling culture is based on stealing women. Their culture is if you want a woman you have to steal her. They raid and they rape too. Dothraki has their faults. But their religious council that they respect are made up of women. Their sacred city is managed by women.  The most important thing is they are now lead by a woman who fiercely hate their violence against women.

Westeros is hardly united culturally. There are different set of people who settled there at different time. There is a huge cultural difference between a wildling and a Dornishman. Also the Dothraki are used as an army here. Nothing suggests they would be settled in Westeros. Besides it is hard to integrate giants, skinchangers and cannibals to Westerosi than horse lords.

[Greymoon]

1 hour ago, khal drogon said:

Simple her enemies are people who are currently holding the throne. 

No it's not like Robert's rebellion. More like Stannis war for the throne. She has the exact same motivation as him fighting for  the throne.

She wants to achieve exact same as what Starks wants to achieve after winning Winterfell or Yara wants to achieve after winning the Iron Islands. 

Yeah people who don't yield will be her enemies. Remember she is fighting for a throne. 

Dany feels Westeros is her home. Having physically never been there does not mean she could never have any emotional connection to Westeros. In fact pre GOT Dany's only wish is to go home. If you feel she feels Essos is her home, then you are not paying attention.

Wildling culture is based on stealing women. Their culture is if you want a woman you have to steal her. They raid and they rape too. Dothraki has their faults. But their religious council that they respect are made up of women. Their sacred city is managed by women.  The most important thing is they are now lead by a woman who fiercely hate their violence against women.

Westeros is hardly united culturally. There are different set of people who settled there at different time. There is a huge cultural difference between a wildling and a Dornishman. Also the Dothraki are used as an army here. Nothing suggests they would be settled in Westeros. Besides it is hard to integrate giants, skinchangers and cannibals to Westerosi than horse lords. 

I wasn't comparing it to Robert's Rebellion, I was saying that RR was legitimate because Aerys burned innocents alive.

Dany conquering Westeros otoh is war for the sake of entitlement. She wouldn't be conquering westeros in the name of justice or for the sake of abolishing slavery. House Targaryen comitted crimes and lost the throne to Robert, and that should be the end of that.

Her conquest would absolutely not be comparable to the Starks reconquering the north. Bolton rule is bad news, not only are they turn-cloaks and traitors, not only have they killed Sansa's brother, not only do they hold Rickon captive, not only has Ramsay threatened them personaly, (and the wildlings too), but Ramsay also enjoys killing and torturing innoncents for the sake of killing and torturing them.

In the books, Dany's "home" is "the house with the red door" and in the show, when after being introduced to Khal Drogo she says she "wants to go home", she's speaking about Illyrio's mance (see the behind the scene interview with Emilia Clarke). Returning to Westeros was Visery's ambition to begin with, not hers. If she didn't care then, why does she care now?

Ygritte would disagree with you about wildling culture, she is a "free woman" and she only gets stolen if she wants to be stolen, otherwise she'd just kill the man who tried to steal her without her consent. By "stealing" a woman, a free man means to earn that woman's affection by demonstrating his strenght and valor. Among wildlings it is sometimes presented as a custom, serving the specific purpose of legitimazing intercourse, though yes, that doesn't prevent violence against women.

It's not the same for women taken during raids, but we've yet to see wildlings mindlessly rape women or behave the way you say. The only ones that would be trouble in the show are the Thenns, but as far as I know, no Thenn is currently residing south of the wall. Styr is dead, and ther others died at hardhome.

There's only a single giant on the show currently, WunWun. I don't see why WunWun would be a problem, Giants are vegetarians anyway. Bran is a Skinchanger, and he's perfectly able to live in society. Being a Skinchanger is not a cultural thing.

Who said that westeros was culturally united? it isn't, but the wildlings believe in the old gods, the same as northerners. Religion plays an important role in the construction of a common identity. In that respect, Tormund's lot aren't that different from northerners. 

The Dornishmen believe in the seven new gods, the same as any other southerner. In westeros, it's only the Iron Men that have a different faith and the few followers of the Red God here and there. The Dothraki otoh have an entire different belief system.

[khal drogon]

41 minutes ago, Greymoon said:

I wd asn'to comparing it to Robert's Rebellion,  I was saying that RR was legitimate because Aerys burned innocents alive.

Dany conquering Westeros otoh is war for the sake of entitlement. She wouldn't be conquering westeros in the name of justice or for the sake of abolishing slavery. House Targaryen comitted crimes and lost the throne to Robert, and that should be the end of that.

Her conquest would absolutely not be comparable to the Starks reconquering the north. Bolton rule is bad news, not only are they turn-cloaks and traitors, not only have they killed Sansa's brother, not only do they hold Rickon captive, not only has Ramsay threatened them personaly, (and the wildlings too), but Ramsay also enjoys killing and torturing innoncents for the sake of killing and torturing them.

In the books, Dany's "home" is "the house with the red door" and in the show, when after being introduced to Khal Drogo she says she "wants to go home", she's speaking about Illyrio's mance (see the behind the scene interview with Emilia Clarke). Returning to Westeros was Visery's ambition to begin with, not hers. If she didn't care then, why does she care now?

Ygritte would disagree with you about wildling culture, she is a "free woman" and she only gets stolen if she wants to be stolen, otherwise she'd just kill the man who tried to steal her without her consent. By "stealing" a woman, a free man means to earn that woman's affection by demonstrating his strenght and valor. Among wildlings it is sometimes presented as a custom, serving the specific purpose of legitimazing intercourse, though yes, that doesn't prevent violence against women.

It's not the same for women taken during raids, but we've yet to see wildlings mindlessly rape women or behave the way you say. The only ones that would be trouble in the show are the Thenns, but as far as I know, no Thenn is currently residing south of the wall. Styr is dead, and ther others died at hardhome.

There's only a single giant on the show currently, WunWun. I don't see why WunWun would be a problem, Giants are vegetarians anyway. Bran is a Skinchanger, and he's perfectly able to live in society. Being a Skinchanger is not a cultural thing.

Who said that westeros was culturally united? it isn't, but the wildlings believe in the old gods, the same as northerners. Religion plays an important role in the construction of a common identity. In that respect, Tormund's lot aren't that different from northerners. 

The Dornishmen believe in the seven new gods, the same as any other southerner. In westeros, it's only the Iron Men that have a different faith and the few followers of the Red God here and there. The Dothraki otoh have an entire different belief system.

I can't take the justification used for Starks retaking Winterfell. Lets say if Roose was in charge, he actually ruled the North well, Ramsay didn't exist and Jon and Sansa tried to retake Winterfell, would you say they were wrong? Because they lost to Roose and they only want to retake because Stark entitlement?

Because that situation is comparable to Dany here except there is ambiguity in her case while in the Starks case the Bolton's are clear bad guys so they get more reason.

The rebellion is lot more ambiguous than Aerys burnt,Targaryens lost rights, Robert won. She definitely have a claim to the throne. Her claim comes as pure entitlement because she does not have an additional reason like the Starks to retake the throne. But the same emotional connection is there. Starks miss their home. Dany yearns for a home.

Read the very first Daenerys chapter to know what she thinks as her home. Or the scene where Viserys, Illyrio and Dany talks in the show. She says she wants to go home meaning Westeros. It doesn't refer to Illyrio's mance as they are already there. The House with the red door represents her childhood but it also represents Westeros. There are at multiple points in the books she associates Westeros with home.

Where do you get the romantic idea of stealing women? Not all wildling women are spearwives like Ygritte. So not all women get to choose. There are various cases of wildlings crossing the wall to steal women from villages too.

In fact they raid and rape and steal. Them worshipping the same religion did not change the enmity between the wildlings and Northerners for thousands of years. The wildling customs are still strange to the Northerners. Skinchanging is taboo south of the wall. So it is not like they are no problem south of the wall.

[Stonelands]

I really hope Dany does go mad. As is, her character arc in the show is getting so boring and tedious to me. I really hated that last scene in episode 6.

[Amris]

3 hours ago, Stonelands said:

I really hope Dany does go mad. As is, her character  I really hope Dany does go mad. As is, her character arc in the show is getting so boring and tedious to me. I really hated that last scene in episode 6.

Hm.

Can't agree with any of the above.

Storywise Dany seems to be supposed to take a 'villainous' path for a time, become the outside invader of Westeros, vaguely like Atttila the Hun or Genghis Khan.

The utterly cool thing - for me - is that she is an invader with understandable motivations who sees herself (wrongly but understandably) as completely justified and in the rights. In addition to that she makes mistakes along the way and has amazingly good sides too. Enormous empathy (when she is in Mhysa - and not in 'fire and blood'-mode) trying to be a saviour and so on.

In short: The Sauron of Westeros is a complex character with amazingly empathic sides and good intentions (not to speak of good looks) but (probably) will turn out to do the Dark Lord (or Dark Lady rather) brutal invasion type thing and mass killing nonetheless. For reasons that may be wrong but are somewhat understandable. And this 'Sauron's' enemies mostly aren't pure-as-the-driven-snow type heroes either. In fact many of Dany's enemies are grey characters (at best!) and to at least some degree deserve what is coming.

I find all of this amazingly faszinating and a lot more intersting than the simple black-and-white setting of Tolkien's world.

I can see where many fan's problems with Dany come from though: Can one simply jump onto the 'she is the unfallible heroine' - train and root for her? No! One can't because she isn't your typical 'always right' heroine. On the other hand: Can one simply hate her as evil incarnate? No! Not either. She has different sides. Some good, some bad.

In my personal opinion it is quite likely Dany will do some very bad things in the near future - even become one of the 'antagonists' for a while -  but will eventually find out where her true destiny lies - which is NOT the Iron Throne! -  and turn out to be one of the people who save Westeros from the White Walkers.

 

[Illiterati]

Bran is completely humble, even overwhelmed, with the power that has been thrust upon him.  I don't know how an argument that he is narcissistic could stand.

Consider too that he is still a child.  Children don't historically deal well with having power.  That makes his humility even more amazing.

[Frejac]

5 hours ago, khal drogon said:

I can't take the justification used for Starks retaking Winterfell. Lets say if Roose was in charge, he actually ruled the North well, Ramsay didn't exist and Jon and Sansa tried to retake Winterfell, would you say they were wrong? Because they lost to Roose and they only want to retake because Stark entitlement?

Because that situation is comparable to Dany here except there is ambiguity in her case while in the Starks case the Bolton's are clear bad guys so they get more reason.

The rebellion is lot more ambiguous than Aerys burnt,Targaryens lost rights, Robert won. She definitely have a claim to the throne. Her claim comes as pure entitlement because she does not have an additional reason like the Starks to retake the throne. But the same emotional connection is there. Starks miss their home. Dany yearns for a home.

Read the very first Daenerys chapter to know what she thinks as her home. Or the scene where Viserys, Illyrio and Dany talks in the show. She says she wants to go home meaning Westeros. It doesn't refer to Illyrio's mance as they are already there. The House with the red door represents her childhood but it also represents Westeros. There are at multiple points in the books she associates Westeros with home.

Where do you get the romantic idea of stealing women? Not all wildling women are spearwives like Ygritte. So not all women get to choose. There are various cases of wildlings crossing the wall to steal women from villages too.

In fact they raid and rape and steal. Them worshipping the same religion did not change the enmity between the wildlings and Northerners for thousands of years. The wildling customs are still strange to the Northerners. Skinchanging is taboo south of the wall. So it is not like they are no problem south of the wall.

But this is the entire point.

There is less (almost to the point of no) ambiguity in the Starks' campaign to retake the North than there is in Dany's campaign to retake the Iron Throne.

Roose isn't in charge.  Ramsay does exist.  And Ramsay does present a direct threat to the Starks, to the wildlings, and to the North in general.

You could certainly argue than Dany would be better for the people of Westeros than the rulers currently in power.  You could argue that her claim to the Iron Throne gives her a right to invade.  You could argue that she does have a strong emotional attachment to Westeros.

What you cannot argue is that a hypothetical state of the world proves that the Starks and Dany are a one-to-one comparison when looking at the justifications for their wars, because the state of the world is not hypothetical.  The story is what it is.  And that story presents the Starks with more clean-cut justifications for retaking Winterfell than it does Dany with justifications for retaking Westeros.

[Greymoon]

8 hours ago, khal drogon said:

I can't take the justification used for Starks retaking Winterfell. Lets say if Roose was in charge, he actually ruled the North well, Ramsay didn't exist and Jon and Sansa tried to retake Winterfell, would you say they were wrong? Because they lost to Roose and they only want to retake because Stark entitlement?

Because that situation is comparable to Dany here except there is ambiguity in her case while in the Starks case the Bolton's are clear bad guys so they get more reason.

The rebellion is lot more ambiguous than Aerys burnt,Targaryens lost rights, Robert won. She definitely have a claim to the throne. Her claim comes as pure entitlement because she does not have an additional reason like the Starks to retake the throne. But the same emotional connection is there. Starks miss their home. Dany yearns for a home.

Read the very first Daenerys chapter to know what she thinks as her home. Or the scene where Viserys, Illyrio and Dany talks in the show. She says she wants to go home meaning Westeros. It doesn't refer to Illyrio's mance as they are already there. The House with the red door represents her childhood but it also represents Westeros. There are at multiple points in the books she associates Westeros with home.

Where do you get the romantic idea of stealing women? Not all wildling women are spearwives like Ygritte. So not all women get to choose. There are various cases of wildlings crossing the wall to steal women from villages too.

In fact they raid and rape and steal. Them worshipping the same religion did not change the enmity between the wildlings and Northerners for thousands of years. The wildling customs are still strange to the Northerners. Skinchanging is taboo south of the wall. So it is not like they are no problem south of the wall.

By conquering Westeros, Dany would not be fighting for justice or prosperity or even freedom. Waging war to serve self interest is unethical. You can argue that she will unite the Kingdoms for the war for dawn or whatever, but the fact is that current Dany doesn't know the state of affairs in Westeros and wants to conquer it just because she can...and she has weapons of mass distruction at her disposal.

The Starks need to retake Winterfell because the Botlons are unfit rulers and that paves the way for more conflict. Winterfell plays a central role in the north's defences, having peace in the north is a matter of survival.

What you call a "romantic portrayal" of stealing women is what you get by reading the books through Val, through Ygritte and even through Tormund. It isn't anything "romantic" but it is cultural.

The very fact that some women are warriors should be enough of a hint to tell you that wildlings don't have traditional models of patriarchy. And that's true in the show as well.

I did explicitly say that it doesn't prevent violence against women and that it is different for women taken on raids. But to say that their culture is based on raids and rape is a gross misconception. Free folk live in villages and settlements, they do raid south of the wall, but I imagine, that's because ressources are sparse.

[RoamingRonin]

5 hours ago, Illiterati said:

Bran is completely humble, even overwhelmed, with the power that has been thrust upon him.  I don't know how an argument that he is narcissistic could stand.

Consider too that he is still a child.  Children don't historically deal well with having power.  That makes his humility even more amazing.

You're right. Look what Bran caused after using his powers without supervision. 

[The Bear]

On 30/05/2016 at 2:12 AM, khal drogon said:

What makes you to think she is hellbent on utter destruction? 

Another set of pillaging barbarians is on the way to take Winterfell. But the show would make them goody goody because Jon's leading them. Dothraki are similar in their raping, pillaging ways  to the wildlings but they are lead by a person who abbhors rape and have a compassion for common people, who has earned Dothraki's respect and has a bloody dragon. That speech meant she was finally ready to destroy her enemies in their stone castles. What's wrong with that? I have seen people wishing for the dreadfort and the twins razed to the ground. When Dany wants that it means she is hitler and will burn her way through and let Dothraki run wild? 

Well, to be fair Jon also abhors rape, has compassion for common people and has the respect of the Wildlings. He doesn't have a dragon but he has been brought back from the dead and that's pretty impressive. As Tormund says, the Wildlings think he's a god much as the Dothraki think Dany is pretty much a god for being fireproof and having dragons (in the show, of course).

Dany does come across like she could easily cross the line, especially since she no longer has the grounding council of Ser Barristan or Jorah. She instead has her boy toy encouraging her to be ruthless and the means to do so. I don't think the comparisons with Hitler are apt or that it's a sure thing that she'll be an agent of pure destruction, but I think it's possible she'll do a lot of harm - not that other characters haven't.

[Illiterati]

13 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

You're right. Look what Bran caused after using his powers without supervision. 

He was the audience's eyes, and I think that's what his role will mostly be.  I think D&D predicted that every person watching would be thinking, "Yes!  Go back to TOJ and let's see the revelation!"  And I bet they were more right than wrong if that was their prediction.  My guess is that was his intention but he took on a power he didn't understand and made a wrong turn with it.

Making an error in judgment does not make someone a prima donna.  Pre-teens and teens strike out on their own when they think they can get away with it.  That's how they are wired, because that's how they learn, through trial and horrifying error.  Doesn't make them narcissistic.

Putting aside this mistake, can you give a phrase he uttered, a look on his face, an action he took, that suggests he's a Kanye West?