Xarkar Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 7 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said: for anyone, possible spoiler ahead : Hide contents You remember the scene of Sansa and LF in the catacombs of Winterfell? Yes he knows, LF will tell Jon about his real parents after the battle I dont think LF knows. LF wasnt reacting to who Jon's parents were. LF was reacting to Sansa's comment that Rhaegar kidnapped her and then raped her. LF was at teh tourny. He saw that they liked each other and he probably knew she went willingly. He also says "how many thousands had to die because he chose her". Saying this started the war. If LF knew who Jon's parents were, he would be trying to use that to his advantage and control Jon. Not Sansa. Howland reed will tell us the truth... thats why he was introduced in the ToJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Kitten Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 8 hours ago, mattnj81 said: I agree overall, but it seems LF does know based on his interaction with Sansa in the crypts last season. That being said, I don't buy this rumor and hope it is false for the reasons you stated. There was a scene in one of the trailers where LF is in some snowy forest, turns around and is surprised to see someone. I don't think he survives that scene. All that was implied in the LF scene in the crypts was that he didn't believe Lyanna was kidnapped and raped, that she ran away with Rhaegar, which I am sure plenty of others speculated after the tourney. I do not believe anyone knows Jon's heritage, least of all LF, who would have sold that info out to the Lannisters ages ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Claw Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Spoiler Sansa said LF knows everyone's secrets possible spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmug Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 9 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said: for anyone, possible spoiler ahead : Hide contents You remember the scene of Sansa and LF in the catacombs of Winterfell? Yes he knows, LF will tell Jon about his real parents after the battle Why would LittleFinger reveal this even if he does know? LittleFinger wants the Iron Throne but first he needs to have the North. Revealing this news about Jon would ruin his own chances at taking over the North or Westeros. Unless LF is going to devise another plot so that in the end game it would be Jon vs. Dany, or in other words LittleFinger vs. Varys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefingerbanger Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I think Sansa will play Sweet Robin. That's her trumpcard on LF (and also the fact that LF has a soft spot for her). She has some degree of influence over Sweet Robin. She knows LF pushed his mom down the moondoor. Would make sense that she'd manipulate him somehow. If Sansa has learned anything at all, it would be to slit LF's throat after the Vale army has helped her cause and then manipulate Robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 19 hours ago, McAssey said: How would this play out in the books? I assume in the next book Jon comes to Winterfell from the wall with an army of northerners and wildlings and perhaps Melisandre (while Davos is off looking for Rickon), while Sansa and Littlefinger come from the Vale with Robin and the Vale army. Unless Sansa learns that Littlefinger betrayed her father, she doesn't have any quarrel with him. (Meanwhile Stannis and his family and part of his army are still alive, Mance is still alive somewhere, Brienne has never encountered any of these people, and Jeyne Poole is somewhere in the middle of it all.) If the show and the books are to eventually get back in sync, I am curious how these divergent stories will ultimately converge. Jeyne Poole is on her way back to Castle Black, but when she gets there her identity will be revealed because Jon knows who she is, lol. She will be in a mess though, she lost half of her nose to frostbite in the escape from Winterfell. It sounds like she has been pretty traumatized by her experiences since Kings Landing, so Castle Black will probably be the first safe place she has been in for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 8 hours ago, Battle Kitten said: All that was implied in the LF scene in the crypts was that he didn't believe Lyanna was kidnapped and raped, that she ran away with Rhaegar, which I am sure plenty of others speculated after the tourney. I do not believe anyone knows Jon's heritage, least of all LF, who would have sold that info out to the Lannisters ages ago. The story that she had been abducted was something the Starks came up with to explain what happened. The story that she was being raped was something Robert came up with, probably because he could not imagine anything else. The Targeryan version on the other hand was that they eloped together for love. LF would be aware of all three versions. And at least some people have doubts that Jon is Ned's son (Stannis implied doubt in his conversation with his wife at Castle Black). LF probably has a pretty good idea of what happened, he is nothing if not shrewd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 7 hours ago, tmug said: Why would LittleFinger reveal this even if he does know? LittleFinger wants the Iron Throne but first he needs to have the North. Revealing this news about Jon would ruin his own chances at taking over the North or Westeros. Unless LF is going to devise another plot so that in the end game it would be Jon vs. Dany, or in other words LittleFinger vs. Varys Not really. Jon would still be a bastard, and bastards don't count in the social order. They are not eligible to inherit anything unless legitimized, and no one has the authority to legitimize a Targaryen other than Tommen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 On 07.06.2016. at 9:59 PM, The Great and Mighty Poo said: I'm of the opinion that you're right-ish but that the Stark team will actually be winning when Littlefinger and the Vale show up. Even though leaked information says I'm wrong, I still feel this makes for a stronger narrative. Also it would be a play on the reverse of "the game". As her game tactics weren't necessary. You are right this would make stronger narrative and it could work, if show didn't make Ramsey political, military genius, master manipulator gods chosen and what not, and if they didn't make Stark stupid assholes without any strategic thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 On 6/7/2016 at 7:16 AM, Future Null Infinity said: My opinion on Sansa sending a letter to LF : after a disastrous compaign with the lords of the north, Jon and Sansa got a desorganized army of 2000 wildlings and 62 mormonts, they have 0 chance against the powerful alliance of boltons-karstarks-umbers, sansa knows that it will be a genocide, jon knows that, davos knows that and everybody knows that Winterfell is occupied and Rickon is a prisoner, she sent a letter to LF to help them, why she didn't tell Jon about this letter? we all know the answer : Jon will categorically refuse any help from LF, she got two options : death of everybody by the boltons or lie to Jon, she picked the second option, is a lie compared to a victory a big deal, no!!! by writing this letter, sansa renounced to what left of her stark pride to call the man who gave her to a rapist for help, she was forced to lie to her trutworthy brother, she sacrificed all that to save Winterfell, Rickon, Jon, Davos, the wildlings and all the North The letter may not be to Littlefinger, it may be to Lord Arryn. Remember, he is besotted with her. If he commands LF to go to her aid, there is not much LF can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, Cragen said: You are right this would make stronger narrative and it could work, if show didn't make Ramsey political, military genius, master manipulator gods chosen and what not, and if they didn't make Stark stupid assholes without any strategic thought. it's not about military strategy, the battle will start exactly the same as stannis' (huge army vs small army and stannis is a military genius), the difference beetwen the armies will be big, but unlike the case of stannis they will be saved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJimmyJangle Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 14 minutes ago, tugela said: Not really. Jon would still be a bastard, and bastards don't count in the social order. They are not eligible to inherit anything unless legitimized, and no one has the authority to legitimize a Targaryen other than Tommen. Do we know for certain though that he was born out of wedlock? It wasn't uncommon for Targaryens to practice polygamy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 12 minutes ago, Cragen said: You are right this would make stronger narrative and it could work, if show didn't make Ramsey political, military genius, master manipulator gods chosen and what not, and if they didn't make Stark stupid assholes without any strategic thought. Chances are that the Blackfish will show up in time and take command of the Stark forces. He is a well known and respected commander, so he would be more tactical than Ramsey (who tends to want to charge into battle for glory without much thought for strategy). If someone like the Blackfish took command, his experience and skill in tactics would outweigh the numerical superiority of the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, tugela said: The letter may not be to Littlefinger, it may be to Lord Arryn. Remember, he is besotted with her. If he commands LF to go to her aid, there is not much LF can do about it. I don't think Sansa will hide the letter from Jon if it is for Lord Arryn, plus she knew that moon door boy is a puppet for LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, SerJimmyJangle said: Do we know for certain though that he was born out of wedlock? It wasn't uncommon for Targaryens to practice polygamy... No witnesses and no formal wedding would mean that it would not be regarded as a legitimate marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerJimmyJangle Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, tugela said: No witnesses and no formal wedding would mean that it would not be regarded as a legitimate marriage. And we neither have proof or disproof of that. So we'll have to see how this little issue gets resolved, which I expect it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, tugela said: Chances are that the Blackfish will show up in time and take command of the Stark forces. He is a well known and respected commander, so he would be more tactical than Ramsey (who tends to want to charge into battle for glory without much thought for strategy). If someone like the Blackfish took command, his experience and skill in tactics would outweigh the numerical superiority of the enemy. Blackfish is in Riverun under siege. There is no way for him to go there in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragen Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 28 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: it's not about military strategy, the battle will start exactly the same as stannis' (huge army vs small army and stannis is a military genius), the difference beetwen the armies will be big, but unlike the case of stannis they will be saved In show I didn't see Stanis military genius at all. He tried to siege Winterfell with 2000 man, pure stupidity, same kind of stupidity they attached to Jon. Strategy is important when odds are against general and he use unorthodox strategy to even odds. Look at The Battle of Agincourt, it could be executed, but I don't expect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's ok I'm the Glass Guy Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 What if Sansa wrote to Robyn and skipped LF?She may be one of the only people who can manipulate/motivate Robyn to act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 18 minutes ago, Cragen said: In show I didn't see Stanis military genius at all. He tried to siege Winterfell with 2000 man, pure stupidity, same kind of stupidity they attached to Jon. Strategy is important when odds are against general and he use unorthodox strategy to even odds. Look at The Battle of Agincourt, it could be executed, but I don't expect it. I think that the writers are doing this to insert littleFinger in the plot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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