sweetsunray Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Cron said: Also, I question what you mean by "just sexual attraction." Is sex all there is to a relationship? Clearly, NO. However, believe me, it's very important especially to a man, as I've also seen stats showing that sex is FAR more important to a man than a woman (big news flash, I know), and can be integral to how they define "love." This is a myth actually. What "stats" did you see? Several of the "sex" arguments are based on biased older studies. First: a lot of studies were done in a period when there was a huge stigma around women and sex. Studies have shown bias where women downplay their sexual life, while men upplay it. In other words study subjects (men and women) purposefully tweak their answers to conform to bias ideas about sexual gratification and experience and enjoyment. This has been proven by making subjects believe they are hooked up to a lie detector. The numbers of men decrease then, and the numbers the female subjects give go up, and they are much closer. Two: women's sexual activity peaks from late 20s well into 40s, whereas men's sexuality peaks in the student years. Guess what age group most comparative studies usually investigate? Yup, that's right, students, when men are sexually peaking and do it most, and female students have not even reached it. So most studies only prove that young male students are more sexually active and peaking than female students, but nothing else than that. Three: a lot of other studies are done in the patient field (sex addicts to frigidity or impotency) where the subjects are not representative of the average male nor female. All in all, when you eliminate the gender-confirmation bias as in point 1, and compare the peak ages of average sexually active women and men there is less difference between women and men than there is a difference between a sex-addictive men and impotent men. News Flash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 GRRM writes very sexy stories, where the women desire men, and men desire women, just as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 23 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: Thanks for the reminder!! About the spoilers for next season: Hide contents If she allies with Euron Jaime won't stand it. He might meet with Brienne sooner than expected. I guess maybe Spoiler Euron could be Moonboy! But I hope he goes before that happens, that it's a choice he makes, to turn away, at long last... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 18 hours ago, Le Cygne said: I guess maybe Reveal hidden contents Euron could be Moonboy! But I hope he goes before that happens, that it's a choice he makes, to turn away, at long last... I thought that Spoiler Euron could be Aurane Waters.... but Moonboy would be priceless to see! Anyway I don't think that Spoiler Euron is as stupid to be in a relationship with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Oh yes, Tor Brute. What a lovely pairing. So lovely in fact, I felt the need to write a song about it, cause I was just so touched by this obvious great romance: Rough lovin', had me a blast Rough lovin', happened so fast I met a she-brute as mean as could be Met a wilding boy as obnoxious as me Bruising days drifting away To, uh oh, those bruising nights Well-a well-a well-a-uh Tell me more, tell me more Did you get very far? Tell me more, tell me more Like does he talk about his dick and go har? She rode by me, and me member didn't go limp He looked at me, like he was a pimp Looked at her, she nearly frowned He stared at me, like he was spellbound Winter sun, something's begun But, uh oh, those bruising nights Well-a,well-a,well-a, uh Tell me more, tell me more Was it love at first sight? Tell me more, tell more Does the she-brute like a good fight? Took her killing on a wildling raid We went smashing; then I got laid. I'm completely uncouth, I flashed my cock. I love him, but I'll bash his face with a rock. Winter fling don't mean thing. But,uh oh, those bruising nights. Tell me more, tell me more I bet she's a mean ol' hag. Tell me more, tell me more Sounds like his stench makes you gag He got rude, gave me a command Well, she got brutal, gave me the ol' backhand He was crude, no manners to be seen Well, she is brutal in bed, if you know what I mean It's sweet, when a brute and a barbarian meet But, uh oh, those bruising nights Tell me more, tell me more How many Stags did he spend? Tell me more, tell me more Does she have a newly empowered friend? Empowered Fansa turned colder, that's where it ends So I told her we'd still be friends Then we made our true love vow Wonder who the Brute is murdering now Sweet dreams, not a GOT theme But, oh, those bruising nights Tell me more, tell me more Originally posted in Rant and Rave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: I thought that Reveal hidden contents Euron could be Aurane Waters....but Moonboy would be priceless to see! Anyway I don't think that Reveal hidden contents Euron is as stupid to be in a relationship with her. Aurane Waters is better! But somehow I never pictured Cersei in a Romulan uniform. Maybe she will slip into something more comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: Oh yes, Tor Brute. What a lovely pairing. Ah, romance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 18 hours ago, Le Cygne said: Aurane Waters is better! But somehow I never pictured Cersei in a Romulan uniform. Maybe she will slip into something more comfortable. I have a feeling that they will be playing a little with Spoiler the Aurane Waters/pirate idea. I think that next season will become very political. We have Cersei, Dany, Euron, Tyrion+Varys, Jon, Sansa and Litlefinger. Jaime is going to talk to Cersei at first, but I think he won't be comfortable with her, especially when trouble comes (Dany). Anyway, I don't think he will ally with Jon, either. He is going to be more and more independent. And now, same for Brienne. I think that's room for them to meet again, in the middle of the storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: Anyway, I don't think he will ally with Jon, either. He is going to be more and more independent. And now, same for Brienne. I think that's room for them to meet again, in the middle of the storm. Oh, that sounds good. So they need to find a bit of shelter from the storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted September 11, 2016 Author Share Posted September 11, 2016 8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said: Oh, that sounds good. So they need to find a bit of shelter from the storm. Yeah! Remember that NCW said there was no time for "private Brienne and Jaime" in the interview I posted? If they stay away (and politically they should now that he is no longer LC of the KG) they would have time for that! They could have conversation, maybe and aventure or two together with some trouble, fighting together...and then...love is in the air! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cron Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 7 hours ago, Cridefea said: I think we're discussing here just because we have different views about the real reason of Tormund/Brienne scenes. For me they added them to the show only because we can see that Brienne can be an attractive woman for someone. It could be preparatory for some "romance", probably with Jaime. In books, we have read something about Brienne's sexual appeal, in the show it's difficult to point out. Moreover I'm still not convinced Brienne will manage to return to Sansa and Jon. In long term I think she will marry someone, I agree with you. Good, good. And yeah, maybe Tormund's not the guy, that's possible. By the way, I believe you completely, I'm not saying you're wrong, but what part(s) of the books talked about Brienne's sexual appeal? Is it convenient to give a reference to that? (If not, I understand, there are things I remember from the books that I"m not going to take the time to go look up, but maybe you have it handy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A spoon of knife and fork Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Could we not openly talk about filming spoilers please? I didn't even open the marked spoilers and yet I have deduced without any difficulty what they are about. meh maybe I'll just stay away from forums until the end of next season. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 5 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said: Yeah! Remember that NCW said there was no time for "private Brienne and Jaime" in the interview I posted? If they stay away (and politically they should now that he is no longer LC of the KG) they would have time for that! They could have conversation, maybe and aventure or two together with some trouble, fighting together...and then...love is in the air! Oh, that's right. So there must be time for that now. Their mission must be each other. Operation: Find The Wench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cron Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 13 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said: Thanks for adressing the topic with more detail. Now I think we can understand more what's going on. About bearing a child, I know he/she wouldn't be the same than a lover, but she will definitely wouldn't be lonely, she might love that child more than Jaime. When the child is grown...well that's so many years! 20 years time? who knows? I think that in so much time anything can have happened: she could have married someone, be a widow like other women from their peirod of time.... I know she MIGHT be not that young in the show (although I think she is young) but she could still find love being older, no matter if she bears a child or not, it's never too late for love. I was talking about being young for finding love-not bearing a child in her period of time. I think there has been a misunderstanding from both parts. I agree with 5) if there is an epilogue and the hints are there in the next seasons, although considering the books, I find it extremely unlikely because the ending should be the same than in the books. We agree on 6) she could find someone else. I don't 100% discard Tormund in an epilogue (although, as I said, the scenes from the show to me are reminders of Hyle Hunt--> not happening) About Tormund and Jaime's comparison.....Well, Jaime being handsome or not it's not what matters. It surely matters to her, but she has fallen in love with a handsome man who was like a Beast but changed. My problem with Tormund is that doesn't fit the story of Brienne (at least not in a short period of time, close to JB's relationship) because he is a wilding, something Brienne's tastes and story is against, she is into knights. Yes, combat is a good thing they have in common, I can buy it. But my point is that the connection between them has not happened in the show (on the contrary, she has rejected him). And, eventhough, it's a different style of fighting, she likes knights, not wildings. We agree on the bolded part of 8) About your questions... To me Trmund didn't fall in love with Brienne at first sight. Well, I don't even think it's possible in real life. He just likes her, and judging by his looks, lustful looks, he is sexually attracted to her. Brienne is a sexual being, and is attracted to Jaime in a romantic and sexual way, but her characterisation is about a woman that puts love first to sexuality. She is an idealist. No, I meant that a person might fall in love with several candidates. That there is more than one possible love to choose. But love is what makes you choose.... But that this story is about an epic romance. SO, in that sense, Jaime is the one, or at least, he will always be the love of her life, no matter if she falls in love again. Someone can be in love (romantically) with more than one person at the same time? that person surely loves one more than the others, but feelings are complicated things. That's the basis of triangle stories. . Great stuff, I enjoyed reading it all! I think we actually have quite a bit of common ground, but of course there are some differences around our edges, which is natural and to be expected among any friends. And who knows, maybe my central premise is wrong anyway, and Jaime will live. If so, there go all my theories on this subject out the window! HAR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 9 hours ago, Le Cygne said: Oh, that's right. So there must be time for that now. Their mission must be each other. Operation: Find The Wench. Both have been spoted in Belfast recently. Could they be filming together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 The estrogen is important, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashes Of Westeros Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 What stastics on marriage in modern western society has to do with this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 13 hours ago, Cron said: Good, good. And yeah, maybe Tormund's not the guy, that's possible. By the way, I believe you completely, I'm not saying you're wrong, but what part(s) of the books talked about Brienne's sexual appeal? Is it convenient to give a reference to that? (If not, I understand, there are things I remember from the books that I"m not going to take the time to go look up, but maybe you have it handy.) I know the question was for @Cridefea but I wanted to share one of my favourite moments in the books on that topic: Quote Brienne moved her longsword back and forth, watching the silvery flames shift and shimmer. Beneath her feet, a reflection of the burning blade shone on the surface of the flat black water. She was as tall and strong as he remembered, yet it seemed to Jaime that she had more of a woman's shape now. This is in Jaime's dream, the one that makes him return to Harrenhall to save Brienne. When they meet he says: "I dreamed of you". There are more, with Ser Hyle Hunt, for instance. In the show they kind of showed it (woman's shape) in the Bath scene, but considering Brienne's haircut is more androgynous than the one she has in the books, and we always see her with the armour, I think the Tormund scene helped people to remind them that Brienne is a woman with a sexual appeal. ETA: @Cridefea , I just posted at the same time you did, so I didn't read your comment before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 15 hours ago, Cron said: By the way, I believe you completely, I'm not saying you're wrong, but what part(s) of the books talked about Brienne's sexual appeal? Is it convenient to give a reference to that? Jaime notices she has real beautiful eyes, he thinks of sex after their fight whenthey're captured by the Bloody Mummers (she looks like they've just had been fucking), and he gets an erection when she steps out of the bath in Harrenhal and he sees her blonde bush. His eyes may say "not a beautiful woman" but his sword says otherwise. All those quotes can be found in aSoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenous reader Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 1 hour ago, sweetsunray said: His eyes may say "not a beautiful woman" but his sword says otherwise. “Give me the sword, Kingslayer.” “Oh, I will.” And then he goes on to 'give her the sword'...! At least Nikolaj Coster-Waldau clearly understands the subtext, even if much of the male audience is averse to it... 17 hours ago, Cron said: what part(s) of the books talked about Brienne's sexual appeal? Is it convenient to give a reference to that? This is the full quote of one of them, which I've provided below. It's heavily laden by GRRM with sexual tension conveyed by the double entendres (to the point of cheesiness; GRRM is practically hitting us over the head with the Jaime-Brienne attraction, but I guess if all you want to see is a 'sword fight,' then that's all you'll see!) Quote “Give me the sword, Kingslayer.” “Oh, I will.” He sprang to his feet and drove at her, the longsword alive in his hands. Brienne jumped back, parrying, but he followed, pressing the attack. No sooner did she turn one cut than the next was upon her. The swords kissed and sprang apart and kissed again. Jaime’s blood was singing. This was what he was meant for; he never felt so alive as when he was fighting, with death balanced on every stroke. And with my wrists chained together, the wench may even give me a contest for a time. His chains forced him to use a two-handed grip, though of course the weight and reach were less than if the blade had been a true two-handed greatsword, but what did it matter? His cousin’s sword was long enough to write an end to this Brienne of Tarth. Kissing and kissed again... Quote High, low, overhand, he rained down steel upon her. Left, right, backslash, swinging so hard that sparks flew when the swords came together, upswing, sideslash, overhand, always attacking, moving into her, step and slide, strike and step, step and strike, hacking, slashing, faster, faster, faster . . . 'Sparks flew when they came together...Faster, faster, faster...' I have to laugh... Quote . . . until, breathless, he stepped back and let the point of the sword fall to the ground, giving her a moment of respite. “Not half bad,” he acknowledged. “For a wench.” She took a slow deep breath, her eyes watching him warily. “I would not hurt you, Kingslayer.” “As if you could.” He whirled the blade back up above his head and flew at her again, chains rattling. Jaime could not have said how long he pressed the attack. It might have been minutes or it might have been hours; time slept when swords woke. He drove her away from his cousin’s corpse, drove her across the road, drove her into the trees. She stumbled once on a root she never saw, and for a moment he thought she was done, but she went to one knee instead of falling, and never lost a beat. Her sword leapt up to block a downcut that would have opened her from shoulder to groin, and then she cut at him, again and again, fighting her way back to her feet stroke by stroke. The dance went on. He pinned her against an oak, cursed as she slipped away, followed her through a shallow brook half-choked with fallen leaves. Steel rang, steel sang, steel screamed and sparked and scraped, and the woman started grunting like a sow at every crash, yet somehow he could not reach her. It was as if she had an iron cage around her that stopped every blow. The dance... Quote “Not bad at all,” he said when he paused for a second to catch his breath, circling to her right. “For a wench?” “For a squire, say. A green one.” He laughed a ragged, breathless laugh. “Come on, come on, my sweetling, the music’s still playing. Might I have this dance, my lady?” Grunting, she came at him, blade whirling, and suddenly it was Jaime struggling to keep steel from skin. One of her slashes raked across his brow, and blood ran down into his right eye. The Others take her, and Riverrun as well! His skills had gone to rust and rot in that bloody dungeon, and the chains were no great help either. His eye closed, his shoulders were going numb from the jarring they’d taken, and his wrists ached from the weight of chains, manacles, and sword. His longsword grew heavier with every blow, and Jaime knew he was not swinging it as quickly as he’d done earlier, nor raising it as high. She is stronger than I am. The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all. But this was a woman. A huge cow of a woman, to be sure, but even so . . . by rights, she should be the one wearing down. Jaime's attracted to strong women -- or he wouldn't be into Cersei, would he? He also thinks of Brienne's strength in the Harrenhal bathtub scene, when they're both naked and Brienne catches him in her arms, prompting him to tellingly compare her to Cersei. His last thought, as he's lying cradled in her arms, before almost passing out is that Brienne is strong but gentler than Cersei. There's a tenderness between them there. Anyway, back to the kinky Jaime-Brienne 'foreplay': Quote Instead she forced him back into the brook again, shouting, “Yield! Throw down the sword!” A slick stone turned under Jaime’s foot. As he felt himself falling, he twisted the mischance into a diving lunge. His point scraped past her parry and bit into her upper thigh. A red flower blossomed, and Jaime had an instant to savor the sight of her blood before his knee slammed into a rock. The pain was blinding. Brienne splashed into him and kicked away his sword. “YIELD!” The flower blooming...that's so obviously a reference to taking someone's maidenhood, or a woman's menstruation. Would Jaime be thinking of 'a red flower blossomed on her upper thigh' and 'savoring the sight of her blood' if he were fighting that fair flower Ser Loras rather that Brienne -- ask yourself that?! If you think I'm stretching credulity, consider that GRRM uses the same technique here: Quote A Dance with Dragons - The Turncloak "Someone has been down here stealing swords. Brandon's is gone as well." "He would hate that." She pulled off her glove and touched his knee, pale flesh against dark stone. "Brandon loved his sword. He loved to hone it. 'I want it sharp enough to shave the hair from a woman's cunt,' he used to say. And how he loved to use it. 'A bloody sword is a beautiful thing,' he told me once." "You knew him," Theon said. The lantern light in her eyes made them seem as if they were afire. "Brandon was fostered at Barrowton with old Lord Dustin, the father of the one I'd later wed, but he spent most of his time riding the Rills. He loved to ride. His little sister took after him in that. A pair of centaurs, those two. And my lord father was always pleased to play host to the heir to Winterfell. My father had great ambitions for House Ryswell. He would have served up my maidenhead to any Stark who happened by, but there was no need. Brandon was never shy about taking what he wanted. I am old now, a dried-up thing, too long a widow, but I still remember the look of my maiden's blood on his cock the night he claimed me. I think Brandon liked the sight as well. A bloody sword is a beautiful thing, yes. It hurt, but it was a sweet pain. Quote Jaime drove his shoulder into her legs, bringing her down on top of him. They rolled, kicking and punching until finally she was sitting astride him. He managed to jerk her dagger from its sheath, but before he could plunge it into her belly she caught his wrist and slammed his hands back on a rock so hard he thought she’d wrenched an arm from its socket. Her other hand spread across his face. “Yield!” She shoved his head down, held it under, pulled it up. “Yield!” Jaime spit water into her face. A shove, a splash, and he was under again, kicking uselessly, fighting to breathe. Up again. “Yield, or I’ll drown you!” “And break your oath?” he snarled. “Like me?” She let him go, and he went down with a splash. And the woods rang with coarse laughter. Brienne lurched to her feet. She was all mud and blood below the waist, her clothing askew, her face red. She looks as if they caught us fucking instead of fighting. Jaime crawled over the rocks to shallow water, wiping the blood from his eye with his chained hands. Armed men lined both sides of the brook. Small wonder, we were making enough noise to wake a dragon. “Well met, friends,” he called to them amiably. “My pardons if I disturbed you. You caught me chastising my wife.” “Seemed to me she was doing the chastising.” 'Fucking instead of fighting...my wife...enough noise to wake a dragon' (when dragons wake, children are conceived...) GRRM makes his intentions clear and has a lot of fun doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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