Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Lady Fishbiscuit

A flaming sword

Recommended Posts

After Beric was resurrected by red priest Thoros, he had the ability to set his sword aflame using his own blood, rather than having to use wildfire, like Thoros did previously.  Beric's main purpose seems to be to set a precedent to show us the 'rules' around resurrection, so I wouldn't be surprised if Jon has this ability now too. 

Team Jon have weak odds going into the battle of the bastards and morale is probably very low.  Wouldn't a hero producing a flaming sword in the darkness to lead his army be good to rally the troops in team Jon? I really hope we see this!  It may make Jon become a bit less emo too :P

I'd also really like to see some of the armies on team Ramsay go over to team Jon at the last minute, as the battle is starting, because they were team Jon all along. I know the Braveheart movie already did this but it would be awesome nonetheless!  Even better if the not-dead-after-all Shaggydog could turn up and eat Ramsay. I realise I'm asking too much now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hound almost dies again, Beric passes his life into the Hound ala LSH, the Hound picks up the flaming sword and becomes Azor Ahai.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

The Hound almost dies again, Beric passes his life into the Hound ala LSH, the Hound picks up the flaming sword and becomes Azor Ahai.

I approve this message!

Except, a flaming chicken drumstick would be better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, JMJ said:

I approve this message!

Except, a flaming chicken drumstick would be better.

Now THAT would be a good legend!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

The Hound almost dies again, Beric passes his life into the Hound ala LSH, the Hound picks up the flaming sword and becomes Azor Ahai.

They do keep coming back to the fact that the Hound must have escaped death for a reason.  I don't think he's AA (although that's just my opinion) and my money would be on Brienne if anyone else is going to fill LSH's cloak, but he clearly has a key role still to play.  He's one of several who really should have died after the situations they've been in, including Danaerys, Arya, Tyrion and Bran.  Other than Dany's dealings with MMD and the funeral pyre, they haven't been using magic as far as we know (unlike the red priests, the warlocks, Bloodraven and the resurrected/undead Jon, Mountain & Beric), but it's strongly hinted for some of them at least that their survival is due to the gods seeing them as having a purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

They do keep coming back to the fact that the Hound must have escaped death for a reason.  I don't think he's AA (although that's just my opinion) and my money would be on Brienne if anyone else is going to fill LSH's cloak, but he clearly has a key role still to play.  He's one of several who really should have died after the situations they've been in, including Danaerys, Arya, Tyrion and Bran.  Other than Dany's dealings with MMD and the funeral pyre, they haven't been using magic as far as we know (unlike the red priests, the warlocks, Bloodraven and the resurrected/undead Jon, Mountain & Beric), but it's strongly hinted for some of them at least that their survival is due to the gods seeing them as having a purpose.

I know this is vague, but I think Sandor is destined to deal with another fire-related issue, perhaps leading to an ultimate self-sacrifice. His entire life has been marked by fire, both from his burn at the hands of Gregor, and how he lost his mojo at Blackwater with wildfire. I am betting once the dragons show up in Westeros, and the Others invade, he will have some key role to play there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jamie Lannister drives his sword through Cersie and his bloody sword catches on wildfire and he becomes Azor Ahai.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never really bought into the Rhollor and his followers. If you compare the differring religions of ASOIAF, to real world history, it seems to me that the Old Gods are the Pagans, the New Gods are the Romans, and the Red god are Judeo/Christian. Just my impression, and im sure there are people here who are more well versed than i we can discuss the comparisons later or in a different thread, but i digress.  In the book and show, the red god is met and viewed with tremendous skepticism and while its quickly and aggressively converting new followers, its trying to rewrite established history/mythology  much like Christianity did with the Pagans and Romans. The Last Hero=Azor Ahai, The Prince Who Was Promised =AA Reborn. The Red Priests and Priestesses are tasked with reeducating and converting peoples minds and hearts to a new faith. This means taking commonly known mythos and twisting it just enough for people relate to a familiar story and characters, but feel enlightened and affirmed by displays of this Red Gods power. The same power that Melisandre herself admits to being mostly illusions. Couple that with the fact that her visions have been misleading or outright wrong, i think builds a very good case of discrediting the legend and prophecy of AA all together. Maester Aemon seemed to think so too. 

 

So who is Azor Ahai? He is No One.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, TinfoilToolate said:

I've never really bought into the Rhollor and his followers. If you compare the differring religions of ASOIAF, to real world history, it seems to me that the Old Gods are the Pagans, the New Gods are the Romans, and the Red god are Judeo/Christian. Just my impression, and im sure there are people here who are more well versed than i we can discuss the comparisons later or in a different thread, but i digress.  In the book and show, the red god is met and viewed with tremendous skepticism and while its quickly and aggressively converting new followers, its trying to rewrite established history/mythology  much like Christianity did with the Pagans and Romans. The Last Hero=Azor Ahai, The Prince Who Was Promised =AA Reborn. The Red Priests and Priestesses are tasked with reeducating and converting peoples minds and hearts to a new faith. This means taking commonly known mythos and twisting it just enough for people relate to a familiar story and characters, but feel enlightened and affirmed by displays of this Red Gods power. The same power that Melisandre herself admits to being mostly illusions. Couple that with the fact that her visions have been misleading or outright wrong, i think builds a very good case of discrediting the legend and prophecy of AA all together. Maester Aemon seemed to think so too. 

 

So who is Azor Ahai? He is No One.

I agree with this 100%. We may end up having a character (maybe multiple) who resemble Azor Ahai, but there will be no literal Azor Ahai reborn that has some crazy power and saves the entire realm. As you mentioned, the red God religion seems to resemble Christianity the most, where Azor Ahai would be akin to Jesus. The major purpose religion serves in the series is for characters to explain what cannot otherwise be understood. To us, most of these mysteries are supernatural so it's easy to believe there may actually be some sort of god/high power at play, but for all we know, things like resurrections, white walkers, dragons, etc may just be part of the natural laws of the aSoIaF universe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Lord Davos Seaworth said:

I agree with this 100%. We may end up having a character (maybe multiple) who resemble Azor Ahai, but there will be no literal Azor Ahai reborn that has some crazy power and saves the entire realm. As you mentioned, the red God religion seems to resemble Christianity the most, where Azor Ahai would be akin to Jesus. The major purpose religion serves in the series is for characters to explain what cannot otherwise be understood. To us, most of these mysteries are supernatural so it's easy to believe there may actually be some sort of god/high power at play, but for all we know, things like resurrections, white walkers, dragons, etc may just be part of the natural laws of the aSoIaF universe.

I agree with you and with @TinfoilToolate about the parallels with progression and appropriation of religion in our universe and new religions reworking the same legends which may or may not have any basis in fact. It may be they are all the same god(s) or no gods at all. However, something seems to be different at this point in time in the ASOIAF universe. A red god ritual (which may have been passed in from older / pagan rituals) suddenly has the result of resurrecting Beric and Jon, when neither Thoros nor Mel expected this to happen.  Beric is resurrected this way multiple times.  Danaerys has twice survived unharmed after walking into/out of an inferno, which also seems unprecedented.  This isn't just a natural thing in this world. The other characters have highly unlikely survivals (although not 'impossible') - Sandor was suffering a badly infected wound and probably blood poisoning but instead of dying he got better. Tyrion survived blackwater, even though he was expected to die, and also fell in the river with the stone men without catching their highly infectious grayscale (as far as we know). Arya survives a serious stabbing. Bran survives a serious fall from a high tower onto hard ground. 

There are multiple manifestations of AA symbolism in numerous characters, but Jon has the most and also the whole ice and fire thing going on, which can't be just circumstantial.  I don't think it's as straightforward as Jon (or anyone else) is AA reborn, but more likely that Jon is destined to fulfil a similar role because the circumstances are similar to those of the long night legend. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone on another site brought up a very interesting fact regarding the show and AA.

Of the almost 60 episodes only 3 have opened with a prologue

The intro to the White Walkers

The creation of Oathkeeper

The reintroduction of the Hound

Its being theorized that this represents the 1: Enemy 2: The Flaming Sword 3: The One who wields it/AA

As others have stated, Beric and Thoros gave the "you are here and alive for a reason Sandor" speech. He is now on his way North. Brienne is in the neighborhood and looks like the show will link up to the book plot. Oathkeeper and Sandor and Thoros ability to light up swords. This is all kinda making sense that Sandor is AA,  and Oathkeeper is lightbringer (or whatever its called)

Edit: I also believe this is only a show plot. I still believe that the books Cleganbowl and AA being Jon or Dany or some compo.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

The Hound almost dies again, Beric passes his life into the Hound ala LSH, the Hound picks up the flaming sword and becomes Azor Ahai.

12 hours ago, lancerman said:

Jamie Lannister drives his sword through Cersie and his bloody sword catches on wildfire and he becomes Azor Ahai.

But since Stannis we know that having a flaming sword doesn't make you Azor Ahai. Any idiot can buy armor and set a sword on fire. 

Besides... The hound who has been established to be terrified of fire on a number of occasions picks up a flaming sword? That would be consistent and logical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

But since Stannis we know that having a flaming sword doesn't make you Azor Ahai. Any idiot can buy armor and set a sword on fire. 

Besides... The hound who has been established to be terrified of fire on a number of occasions picks up a flaming sword? That would be consistent and logical.

Can you explain the 3 prologues? Why those 3?

Also all 3, WW, Hound and Oathkeeper all seem to be coming together. Its not a crazy theory and until I see something better I'm sticking with it at this point.

I also don't see AA in the shows as someone who is sort of labeled or anointed. It might be a simple as Brienne falling in battle, the Hound picking up a Valaryan Sword and killing the Nights King.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hound is a secondary character, he is not going to end up having a more important role in the endgame than the protagonists, not a snowball's chance in hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Jayc said:

Can you explain the 3 prologues? Why those 3?

Also all 3, WW, Hound and Oathkeeper all seem to be coming together. Its not a crazy theory and until I see something better I'm sticking with it at this point.

I also don't see AA in the shows as someone who is sort of labeled or anointed. It might be a simple as Brienne falling in battle, the Hound picking up a Valaryan Sword and killing the Nights King.  

The Hound is on record saying "I always wanted a Valaryian Sword." I am pretty sure he said that in relation to Oathkeeper. Maybe there was some foreshadowing there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Jayc said:

Can you explain the 3 prologues? Why those 3?

Also all 3, WW, Hound and Oathkeeper all seem to be coming together. Its not a crazy theory and until I see something better I'm sticking with it at this point.

I also don't see AA in the shows as someone who is sort of labeled or anointed. It might be a simple as Brienne falling in battle, the Hound picking up a Valaryan Sword and killing the Nights King.  

The three prologues can certainly be interpreted like this. I personally don't see there's a particular connection and I certainly don't think the show would make a point of the three prologues being connected. I also don't see why Oathkeeper of all swords would be lightbringer. What do we base that on other than the it would be cool is the prologues were connected factor? 

And I think that if the savior figure is going to be a thing (which I certainly think it should be), it's not going to be a secondary character. How awfully anticlimactic would it have been if Neville killed Voldemort, Pippin destroyed the ring and Han Solo threw the emperor off the ledge? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RhaeBee said:

The three prologues can certainly be interpreted like this. I personally don't see there's a particular connection and I certainly don't think the show would make a point of the three prologues being connected. I also don't see why Oathkeeper of all swords would be lightbringer. What do we base that on other than the it would be cool is the prologues were connected factor? 

And I think that if the savior figure is going to be a thing (which I certainly think it should be), it's not going to be a secondary character. How awfully anticlimactic would it have been if Neville killed Voldemort, Pippin destroyed the ring and Han Solo threw the emperor off the ledge? 

Your trying to draw conclusions of the show from the books. The show, Valaryan steel can kill a WW. It doesn't have to be Lightbringer.

Book Hound is a great character, show Hound is an epic character. I would not put it past the show writers to change the plot to include the Hound as AA

You have the three prologues. You have all three coming together. You have the recent Beric/Thoros speech to the Hound. You have some subtle hints listed above (I always wanted a Valaryan Sword), and you have the Hound in the presence of a very powerful priest of R'hllor.

"the greatest swordsman in the world killed by Merin f'in Trant" *giggles* 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Jayc said:

Your trying to draw conclusions of the show from the books. The show, Valaryan steel can kill a WW. It doesn't have to be Lightbringer.

Book Hound is a great character, show Hound is an epic character. I would not put it past the show writers to change the plot to include the Hound as AA

You have the three prologues. You have all three coming together. You have the recent Beric/Thoros speech to the Hound. You have some subtle hints listed above (I always wanted a Valaryan Sword), and you have the Hound in the presence of a very powerful priest of R'hllor.

"the greatest swordsman in the world killed by Merin f'in Trant" *giggles* 

I understand that not only lightbringer but Valyrian steel can kill white walkers too. But how is Oathkeeper of all the Valyrian steel swords in the world Lightbringer (which you said it is with the hound being Azor ahai)? Lightbringer being a sword in itself is an assumption. AND in said prologue we see two swords made, Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. So what makes you say that Oathkeeper is the significant one and not Widow's Wail? 

The Hound doesn't have either of those swords at the moment and how would he acquire either? By killing Brienne or Tommen? I don't see how else he would get either. 

The show (as well as the books) has aggressively pushed Daenerys, Jon and Tyrion being the three main characters, I don't see the show runners making a secondary character (no matter how awesome he is) the promised savior of the world. 

But let's say the Hound kills Brienne for no reason and keeps her sword which happens to be lightbringer for no reason while the hound happens to Be the champion of the God of an element he is terrified of for no reason. I would still need a very strong build up about the hound making his peace with fire and embracing its positive nature before all this happens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

I understand that not only lightbringer but Valyrian steel can kill white walkers too. But how is Oathkeeper of all the Valyrian steel swords in the world Lightbringer (which you said it is with the hound being Azor ahai)? Lightbringer being a sword in itself is an assumption. AND in said prologue we see two swords made, Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper. So what makes you say that Oathkeeper is the significant one and not Widow's Wail? 

The Hound doesn't have either of those swords at the moment and how would he acquire either? By killing Brienne or Tommen? I don't see how else he would get either. 

The show (as well as the books) has aggressively pushed Daenerys, Jon and Tyrion being the three main characters, I don't see the show runners making a secondary character (no matter how awesome he is) the promised savior of the world. 

But let's say the Hound kills Brienne for no reason and keeps her sword which happens to be lightbringer for no reason while the hound happens to Be the champion of the God of an element he is terrified of for no reason. I would still need a very strong build up about the hound making his peace with fire and embracing its positive nature before all this happens. 

Listen all great points. I do think the Hound/AA connection is a tough theory to get behind.

Part me of me thinks all these characters are going to be north fighting the WW, Jon, Brienne, Hound etc.... I feel that the person who kills the Night King is AA and the weapon used is Lightbringer.

We have been waiting six seasons for this climatic moment where Jon's heritage is revealed. Some thought we would find out through a resurrection in a pyre or some event that would reveal to the world his true identity. Part of me thinks we the viewers will find out, but those in the story will not. I think its going to be the same with AA. I don't think Jon or the Hound or whoever becomes AA will ever be revealed to those in the story. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...