Tchzaelous Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 13 minutes ago, The Lash said: Robb almost assuredly legitimized Jon already, plus made him his heir. Sansa has the best claim for now. Til either the will comes out or Bran shows up. Bran would probably refuse in my opinion. The Northern Lords would support either Sansa or Jon. Benjen is a complete mystery. In Benjen's case, it would depend on how well they know him and what they think is right for The North. Benjen does not want Winterfell either in my opinion. If R+L=J is true and it comes out. Jon will be able to do whatever he wants with Winterfell. I assume it will be Sansa's then. Benjen will never come South of the Wall. I'm pretty sure his story will be over once Bran is South, since season 6 is more chess than story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Snow Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Just love the idea of Sansa undermining Baelish's quest for power in the north by backing Jon as both Lord of Winterfell & King in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam141414 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 But who can support Jon's claim. He needs highborn support. His most trusted advisers are Meliandre, Davos & Tormund who are nonentities in the North in terms of politics. Which other houses would support him (aside form Mormont). Sansa has the Stark name, & Littlefinger will do everything he can do block Jon's pathway to legitimacy. Plus, Jon isnt pushing, & even after Ned, Catelyn and Robb's death, & all he has done for House Stark - he still appears to be uncomfortable with the notion of being a Stark. Jon should do a Theon, & throw his support behind his sister. I think Sansa wants Winterfell herself, she has developed & become quite head strong, & had more foresight with regards to what Ramsey was capable of. Whilst Jon dismissed Sansa's advice about Ramsey's sick intellect, by being goaded to get within range of Bolton archers. It was Sansa who won the battle having previously wrote to Littlefinger to get the Knights of the Vale. I dont think Sansa trusts Jon to rule. Jon is a good leader, battle commander & fighter. But Sansa must know deep down he doesnt know 'the game'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 19 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said: All the the spoilers on the internet I read are saying that Sansa will crown Jon king in the north, LF and and all the northern lords will try to convince Sansa to become lady on winterfell because she is the only heir present there, but she will give up her right to Jon and make him the king, and LF will not like that, there is no such thing like what you are saying!!!! Google Truede leaks the only reliable leaks there have been (everything 100% correct), the Northern lords declare Jon King in the North, it's Lyanna Mormont who leads this allegedly backed by the Manderleys, Glovers etc and Sansa agrees to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youshallnotpass Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Spoiler Sansa will declare Jon King, she will do this to ruin little finger. Little finger I think is to mary Sansa and make his claim to the north but in order to stop this she will make Jon king. The north is an independent kingdom with no authority from the Iron throne. The northern lords and Sansa can back Jon to become king. Also do you think the lannisters will let the Starks take back the north!! So its in the Starks best interest to be independent once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 After all the leaks I have to say: "no trust to the leaks at all!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadedNorwegian Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 She can`t, nad most likey wouldn`t even if she could. Seems to me Sansa has trust issues and don`t really know where she has Jon. Besides. iven if she could and would do it, none outside the north would recognise it. THe only thing left to see now is if the north would want a queen of the north, and by the looks of it got has a strong independent chick thing going so I would`t be suprised if Sansa ended up ruling. THere is still the matter of Littlefinger though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Prince Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 hours ago, Adam141414 said: I think Sansa wants Winterfell herself, she has developed & become quite head strong, & had more foresight with regards to what Ramsey was capable of. Whilst Jon dismissed Sansa's advice about Ramsey's sick intellect, by being goaded to get within range of Bolton archers. It was Sansa who won the battle having previously wrote to Littlefinger to get the Knights of the Vale. I dont think Sansa trusts Jon to rule. Jon is a good leader, battle commander & fighter. But Sansa must know deep down he doesnt know 'the game'. Sansa is unquestionably more savvy nowadays. But, like Jon, she's had recent failures too. She was convinced the northern houses would rally to their cause -- but they didn't. We saw her failure to communicate with Lyanna Mormont and Robett Glover. And there is a strong argument that her actions with the Vale cost the north thousands of lives needlessly. She's in Littlefinger's pocket, has caused trust issues with her own brother, and might at this point be driven by anger. Likewise, one rash decision in a battle doesn't make Jon a second-rater. It's important to contextualise his charge with his character arc this season: insecure, nihilistic, bordering on suicidal. The murder of Rickon in front of his eyes was the catalyst for change. But prior to Jon's own assassination he had shown a combination of strategic wisdom and ruthlessness that made him the sanest man in Westeros. Jon doesn't have time for the game -- there is no way to be a smooth operator when bringing thousands of wildlings beyond the Wall. He does what's right and what needs to be done, and that's why the north will surely unite behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinifan Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 There is no need for anyone to legitimize Jon. If the Northern lords back him as king, then he is king. That is how power works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 hours ago, JonSnowed said: Google Truede leaks the only reliable leaks there have been (everything 100% correct), the Northern lords declare Jon King in the North, it's Lyanna Mormont who leads this allegedly backed by the Manderleys, Glovers etc and Sansa agrees to it. This. I'm anxiously awaiting Lyanna's speech. It's going to be epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 minute ago, illinifan said: There is no need for anyone to legitimize Jon. If the Northern lords back him as king, then he is king. That is how power works. Pretty much this. The North will be it's own, independent Kingdom with its own ideals, laws, and beliefs. The whole "so-and-so needs to be legitimized" is a 7 Kingdoms thing. With the North independent...the can pretty much do whatever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masha Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 39 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said: Pretty much this. The North will be it's own, independent Kingdom with its own ideals, laws, and beliefs. The whole "so-and-so needs to be legitimized" is a 7 Kingdoms thing. With the North independent...the can pretty much do whatever they want. Till Wall is breached or Dany comes with her dragons - whatever comes first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Snow Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 As many have said, Jon can be KitN without being legitimized. Legitimizing him as a Stark wouldn't make story sense anyway since we will likely soon learn he's a Targaryen. But as KitN, Jon can make whatever decrees need to be made to ensure the Stark line continues thru Sansa or Arya should Bran prove incapable of providing an heir. The girls could have kids, keep the Stark name, and the beat goes on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 15 hours ago, tugela said: When she marries, she becomes a member of the house she marries into. That is the symbolism of the cloak changing ritual they have at the wedding ceremony. Sansa technically is no longer a Stark. She is a Bolton. Oh, c'mon, As I said, tell that to Dany. She was coupled with a dothraki khal, but she's no less the last Targaryen, still the Targ heir to the Iron Throne. Women do not miraculously loose former family identities when married - Catelyn Stark was still viewed very much a Tully in addition to being Lady Stark, Cercei Baratheon is no less a Lannister, etc. If all the male relatives in line to inherit their "home bases" would've kicked the bucket, they would've been ladies of Riverrun and Casterly Rock. (In the eyes of those who don't know Bran and Arya are still alive,) Sansa is the only surviving Stark, thus the Lady of Winterfell. Unless theories of Sansa's pregnancy *shudder* hold water, House Bolton is no more. Even all that is irrelevant when discussing kings and queens. Might makes right, as we saw from Robert's usurping of the Iron Throne, Robb was spontaniously "voted" as KitN, Balon one day decided he fancied being a king too and some might even remember poor king Stannis... Cloak changing symbolizes how a woman is moved from her father's protection under the protection of her new husband. It's not a severing of blood ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sun moon stars rain Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Quote he North will be it's own, independent Kingdom with its own ideals, laws, and beliefs. The whole "so-and-so needs to be legitimized" is a 7 Kingdoms thing. With the North independent...the can pretty much do whatever they want. I love this because this action will put Jon/Starks in conflict with Dany when she shows up. Remember what Tyrion said about the other Kingdoms of Westeros, what if they want to be independent like the Iron Islands? The North is the biggest and Jon as a secret Targ? Problems. Can't Wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam141414 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Is the North strong enough to be independent from the seven kingdoms? House Stark is back in control in the North, yet its army is a coalition of Wildings and small Northern houses. The fact Wildings are part of the Stark army adds another dilemma to any attempt for Sansa/Jon to reunite the North under House Stark, given the Wildings are not trusted by Northmen. And how can the North declare their independence when they only won due to the Knights of the Vale. Its not exactly the definition of 'winning your independence' - relying on others to save you from defeat. If the North declare independence, then the Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale should also declare their own independence. As if the North feel they are strong enough, then so should the Vale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 None of the legalistic bickering matters one whinging whit once the White Walkers pace the frozen Trident. It's like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin as civilization is blasted out of existence. Nobody will fucking care. Nor should they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caravaggio Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Perhaps everyone is made to understand that the real fight is against the Others and Winter. They agree that it is no longer a matter of politics, but survival. They agree to make Jon KITN so he can lead that fight and have the authority to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitteh Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Even if she could, why would she? Jon is The Endgame. He doesn't need Winterfell. She does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hound 25 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 On 6/22/2016 at 3:22 AM, CrypticWeirwood said: Not while Benjen yet lives, he's not. Benjen gave up all rights to lands and holdings when he joined the Night's Watch. He hasn't died yet so his watch hasn't ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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