Bran Snow Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I'd say it doesn't matter who has the right to rule but who will be followed. Sansa might have the best claim but I don't see the North following her. She married a Lannister and then a Bolton, and while she did that to survive, I think the north would view that as weak. Jon is a leader and has proven himself to fight for the weak. He is alot like Ned and I think the north will see that and will follow him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcorpyo001 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Both Sansa and Jon should know by now that Bran is still alive. And the show also gave us Benjen, who’s almost dead, but not fully dead?!? Anyway, in the show, she’s third in line for succession. It might suck that males always come first in succession, but it is as it is. In the books, we also have Rickon and a Jon that was legitimised by Robb, so she’s fifth in line of succession, sixth if Robb’s child is not dead and is with the Blackfish. So she can’t legitimise anyone, because she has no right to be queen to begin with. I don’t know why Sansa already believes herself Lady Sansa Stark of Winterfell in the letter she sends to the Blackfish, but she should know that both Rickon and Bran are still alive at that moment. Or are we to believe that they had time to talk about old Nan’s soup, but Jon forgot to tell her about Bran(he knows from Sam), or she forgot to tell him about Arya(she knows from Brienne). Don’t know why either Sansa or Jon would want to usurp Bran’s right to the title of Lord of WF/KitN.Maybe act as his regents until he is found, alive or dead. This ‘they probably talked about it off screen…oops, they didn’t’ is getting quite old. It’s impossible for them to forget that they have living family members that are before them in the line of succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Sansa Stark must not give the lordship of winterfell to the bastard/targaryen, he can become the king of the north, it's his full right, he fought valiantly, but Sansa must take her rightful place as lady of Winterfell (like Lyanna Mormont) temporarily until Bran returns, the law is the law , and then when Bran returns, he can legitimize Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregg22 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 If the spoilers are true about Jon being King then there are some serious holes in the show's telling of the story. Davos and Tormund basically have come to the conclusion that following a King was their mistake, and Jon is not a King so they can follow him. Maybe this conversation was half joking, but there must have been a reason for it. Remember, proclaiming Robb KitN was GreatJon Umber's idea. Well, the House Umber relationship is yet to be determined. The Boltons went along, but Roose probably always planned to betray Robb. The Karstarks? Half the other Houses havn't even been mentioned. Proclaiming Robb KitN didn't turn out so well for ANYONE. Why would they be so eager to do that again? The whole "Warden of the North" title is an Iron Throne proclamation, and thats not coming anytime soon. Not to mention Jon being a Bastard complicates things. I mean, Ramsay just personified every stereotype of a Bastard. I imagine some in North would still be distrustful of a Bastard. Then you have Jon's parentage to muddy the waters. I hope Jon just doesn't accept this proclamation of King in the North. He needs to do whatever is best to lead everyone through the Long Night. That is his path. Im just wondering when he will learn of the world greatest army, and its Dragon rider Queen. He will undoubetly decide he needs Dany for the battle to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bad Wolf Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Noveson said: And dumber things in the book as well according to your thinking. At the end of the day everything goes out the window when it people decide it to. Look at how many people followed Renly. If Jon decides to declare himself King in the North people will follow him, and that's the important thing. You do have a point, but the problem is that Jon isn't loved by north houses (people in Reach actually did like Renly, plus the Renly - Marge marriage). He's just that Ned's bastard who became NW Lord Commander. What is more there was no "North Remembers/Northern Conspiracy" build up whatsoever (which really bothers me - it seems like a really big deal in the books). If there was, I would be fine with Jon becoming a king. But for now... Umbers actually did betray Starks and Smalljon even gave a speech about it, Mormonts supported Sandra and Jon ONLY after hearing about White Walkers (they didn't care for Rickon, possibly the LAST LIVING TRUEBORN Ned's son) and a bunch of other houses (Glovers also Manderlys it seems) didn't care. So how could possibly they now want to choose Jon for a King (especially after he's proven how poor of a battle commander he is)? It would seem like northern lords are being oportunistic... which feels just wrong and unsatisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Freddy Blackfyre Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 The Lords crowned Robb King In The North, those Lords as a some sort of Grand Council can put another King, that does't mean that Bran stop being Lord of Winterfell, a King In The North can now make The Dreadfort or the Umber castle his home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinifan Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 The ironic thing about the Tormund and Davos chat is that if R+L=J, Jon actually has the best claim to the Iron Throne. They are following another king without eve realizing it. And one thing that Game of Thrones hits again and again is merit should matter, not lineage. Of course I am not sure exactly why Jon merits any election, but I believe that is what they are going for. I also think that Sansa and Jon out scheme LF in this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 People will not give a shit about line of succession at this point. If northern lords consider Jon to be the best candidate as their king, then he will be their king. White Walkers are coming, and we know that northerners only follow a Stark of Winterfell as their king. If Jon needs to become King Jon Stark, that is what he will become in order to stop the biggest threat of this series. Jon, at this point, is an alpha wolf of his pack, the patriarch of House Stark. And it is time to start breaking decades long traditions of looking down on bastards, kneeling and oath swearing. This is the main story impact of Free Folk, they will change the North from the root into something more democratic and progressive (in its social hierarchy) and diminish significantly the power of nobility and feudal structure in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 9 hours ago, The Bad Wolf said: Only a king can legitimize. A Lord can ask him to do so, just like Roose asked the Crown for legitimacy for Ramsay and King Tommen allowed it. In book!canon it is speculated that Robb, as King in the North, legitimized Jon in his will before the RW. I don't recall such will in TV Show. Sansa can't become a Queen, because she was married to Tyrion and Ramsay (plus the latter consummated the marriage), so she can't legitimize him. Since Rickon is dead, only Bran could do it. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if northern lords declared Jon a Stark and a King because reasons.. there were dumber things in this show already. On the other hand... if northern lords agreed on Stannis as their king... couldn't Davos do it? After all he is Hand of the King. None of them can do it unless they are a king/queen. If they renounce that claim, then they would require Tommen to legitimize him. If Sansa were to become queen, she could make Jon a Stark, but that would still leave him under her. Davos ceased to be the hand when Stannis died and left no heirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 7 hours ago, Iona said: I'm sorry, but where in the rulebook does it say that a girl who's not been f*cked (in a marriage bed) and then later a girl that has been f*cked (in a marriage bed) cannot become a queen? Mark it down and give a copy to Dany... When she marries, she becomes a member of the house she marries into. That is the symbolism of the cloak changing ritual they have at the wedding ceremony. Sansa technically is no longer a Stark. She is a Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 10 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said: All the the spoilers on the internet I read are saying that Sansa will crown Jon king in the north, LF and and all the northern lords will try to convince Sansa to become lady on winterfell because she is the only heir present there, but she will give up her right to Jon and make him the king, and LF will not like that, there is no such thing like what you are saying!!!! If she wants to become the Lady of Winterfell, all she has to do is marry Jon: a crow in the hand is worth more than a flock of falcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 4 hours ago, Scorpion92 said: Jon, at this point, is an alpha wolf of his pack, the patriarch of House Stark. Not while Benjen yet lives, he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 minute ago, CrypticWeirwood said: Not while Benjen yet lives, he's not. Who in the North is gonna follow Benjen-hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 7 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said: Sansa Stark must not give the lordship of winterfell to the bastard/targaryen, he can become the king of the north, it's his full right, he fought valiantly, but Sansa must take her rightful place as lady of Winterfell (like Lyanna Mormont) temporarily until Bran returns, the law is the law , and then when Bran returns, he can legitimize Jon As Cicero famously noted, laws are silent in the midst of arms (silent enim leges inter arma). So it has ever been, and so ’twill be now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said: Who in the North is gonna follow Benjen-hands? Everyone who sees him wielding Lightbringer: don't you remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said: Everyone who sees him wielding Lightbringer: don't you remember? Sooo...is he "the corpse that was promised"? Damn, it is so obvious now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yin & Yang Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 10 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said: Another case of the extreme favoritism of game of thrones for some characters, first we kill Rickon because he's barring the road to KitN and then we put aside Sansa, the rightful heir because she's a girl only to put a bastard/targaryen as a King on winterfell and you have Stannis killed like a sheep, and people are saying that anyone can be killed in the story Littlefinger wants something from Sansa as we can see in the trailer. If he wants to marry Sansa then it will be to gain control of the North through Sansa. How awesome would it be if Sansa ruined all his plans by then helping to declare Jon KitN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Sansa can proclaim Jon Stark King in the North, heck Davos could say that Stannis legitimized him and here's the signed and backdated parchment. It's not as if he hasn't forged a letter in Stannis' name before. But more to the point, the North is a separatist movement from the Seven Kingdoms. They can make their own rules and do whatever they want until someone stops them. If they want Jon to lead them, Jon will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lash Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Robb almost assuredly legitimized Jon already, plus made him his heir. Sansa has the best claim for now. Til either the will comes out or Bran shows up. Bran would probably refuse in my opinion. The Northern Lords would support either Sansa or Jon. Benjen is a complete mystery. In Benjen's case, it would depend on how well they know him and what they think is right for The North. Benjen does not want Winterfell either in my opinion. If R+L=J is true and it comes out. Jon will be able to do whatever he wants with Winterfell. I assume it will be Sansa's then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchzaelous Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 11 hours ago, Red Tiger said: We have had kinslaying ahoy, bastards ruling Dorne and all types of other things inconsistent with the laws and customs of westeros. We have already gotten waaaaaay past the sloppy storytelling. I still laugh at how cartoonish Euron was about it. "Let's go kill my niece and nephew! It's kin-hunting season!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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