Pospi Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Hello everyone, so I was watching once again full scene of Tower of Joy and I've realized one thing. I know that it should not be possible but it seems that Bran has changed the history through visions. As we know from first part of ToJ, he shouted to his father and Ned stopped and turned back. But in second part, Bran did not shout and even though Eddard turned back. What do you think? Full scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf8fAh-DWDU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brightflame princess Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 It's hard to say. The three eyed raven seemed genuinely worried when eddard turned back, either because he doesn't want bran to screw up the future, or because he is worried bran will try to talk to his loved ones, but it won't work, and it will only make him sad. It's weird that they didn't elaborate on that more.. oh well, next season I guess. This is my theory.. bran can somewhat communicate to people in the past, but they can't really hear words, just rustling leaves, the sound of wind. So they might hear something, but never what bran or the three eyed raven is actually saying, therefore, the past can only be changed slightly, no messages can be relayed. That would be pretty frustrating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a dragon is still a dragon Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, brightflame princess said: This is my theory.. bran can somewhat communicate to people in the past, but they can't really hear words, just rustling leaves, the sound of wind. So they might hear something, but never what bran or the three eyed raven is actually saying, therefore, the past can only be changed slightly, no messages can be relayed. That would be pretty frustrating! i agree with this, i think the 3ER either had this power and used it to try and counsel Aerys who only heard whispers sending him mad. or bran goes back in time and results in the same effect on aerys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrid Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I was wondering about this as well. From the TOJ scene it made it seem like Ned turned around b/c he always has turned around. That's the thing about the ability to affect the past/future, it can all get very confusing very quickly. Like, did Ned turn around b/c there is only one time line at this exact moment in time 3ER and Bran of a few episodes past were there too with Finale Bran, and earlier Bran's shouting made Ned turned around? I feel like the show is keeping its options open on what exactly Bran can do. From a reader's perspective I had always thought Bran was special and really could communicate with the subjects he was viewing, at least in the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple-eyes Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 of couse bran can change the history. remember bran wants to be a knight for only one day? he knows jon will be the saviour and he knows jon is son of R and J. it is old god (bran) who helped a untrained 13 year old lyanna to defeat three well-trained adult knights and then made rhaegar meet her. and i am sure howland communicated with bran as well. he is father of meera. everything started from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienCarnivore Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 When will these theories die out? Why is it so hard to accept that things in the past happened because people were evil and that all Ned heard was the wind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobmartell Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 16 minutes ago, purple-eyes said: of couse bran can change the history. remember bran wants to be a knight for only one day? he knows jon will be the saviour and he knows jon is son of R and J. it is old god (bran) who helped a untrained 13 year old lyanna to defeat three well-trained adult knights and then made rhaegar meet her. and i am sure howland communicated with bran as well. he is father of meera. everything started from there. I read a theory years ago, possibly yours?, that said that the knight of the laughing tree came up with the sigil because bran was laughing through the weirnet once he saw it was Lyanna saving howland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchzaelous Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Did he change History? Yes and no. It was always supposed to have been that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The way they seem to be going with this is nothing has "changed" per se. Bran has already done everything he's going do. We're just going to see how and why he does so. Hodor was already saying Hodor long before Bran ever fell for example. Bit of a predestination paradox, but if you're going to introduce time travel that's a fairly tame way to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I don't think so. It's possible that Ned just turned around to check if there was no one behind him, following him, and Bran happened to shout at him at the moment. Either that or what Lord Lannister said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adiman83 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 No, he didn't change history. The Three Eyed Raven tells him that the past is set and cannot be changed. And in the book he tries something similar, talking to someone from the past. But the Raven says they won't hear him. Those people will only hear the wind, or some other meaningless noise like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatStallion Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 14 hours ago, Tchzaelous said: Did he change History? Yes and no. It was always supposed to have been that way. Completely agree with you mate, whatever happened happened, it is a loop and whatever Bran will do or interact will affect the past for sure (like Ned turning down when he heard something) but eventually it result in the past being the past as we know it. Kudoos to GRR Martin for this approach It is indeed very realistic because physics tell you you cannot change the past nor the future whatever happened happened and whatever will happen will happen (Lost treated that theme wonderfully and Interstellar even more so ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 18 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: The way they seem to be going with this is nothing has "changed" per se. Bran has already done everything he's going do. We're just going to see how and why he does so. Hodor was already saying Hodor long before Bran ever fell for example. Bit of a predestination paradox, but if you're going to introduce time travel that's a fairly tame way to do so. 4 hours ago, TheGreatStallion said: Completely agree with you mate, whatever happened happened, it is a loop and whatever Bran will do or interact will affect the past for sure (like Ned turning down when he heard something) but eventually it result in the past being the past as we know it. Kudoos to GRR Martin for this approach It is indeed very realistic because physics tell you you cannot change the past nor the future whatever happened happened and whatever will happen will happen (Lost treated that theme wonderfully and Interstellar even more so ) I agree with both of you. The "whatever happened, happened" Lost-style of time travel is known as the Novikov self-consistency principle. Elio and Linda discuss it a bit in this video on time in ASoIAF. It's closer to the end, iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjlxking Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 No! Time is a flat circle. The show also hinted on that. We see that when Bran goes back to the vision, he did not say father but it Eddark still turned around. whenever you mess with time you run into a loop (circle) and if you try to get out, you create a paradox. You can't change the past because you will change the present hence you being there in the first place to change the past won't happen.. Hence its a paradox. What at is more likely is that there is a ripple that Bran can create. You can change small things like a character moving back or around but he I'll still do what he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan of Rosby Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Novikov self-consistency principle applies here. If a ball rolls across the table and Bran goes into the past before the ball rolls across the table, he cannot stop the ball rolling across the table. Any changes he makes will either be ineffectual or he actually causes the ball to roll across the table in a self-fulfilling prophecy. We saw that with the Hodor incident. Everything is preordained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 The two scenes are exactly the same. Ned also hears Bran, but not this Bran, the Bran from previous episodes ago. It makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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