If Jon is KitN when he learns about her mother which would be better...story-wise?

[Quillon]

(assuming the fact that R+L=J is true)

He's the King in the North, he has already risen to power when he...

#1: ...learns he's a Targ-bastard instead of being a Stark-bastard.

#2: ...learns that he's a trueborn Targ, rightful heir to IT.

Which would cause the better drama?

 

Shocks:

#1: His mother wasn't a whore or a tavern wench or a fisherman's daughter or some other highborn lady but effin Lyanna Stark! Who is...dead; he was curious about who she was, maybe he also hoped to meet her.

#2: Ned wasn't his father. Everyone told him he looked like him and he tried to live up to his reputation all his life He was proud Ned being his father.

#3: The Rapist or The Romantic Rhaegar was his father. - Did he ever thought about Rhaegar? How would he feel about it?..

#4: Trading one bastardry for another. "Fuck, I'm still a bastard". He could have a hysteric laugh about it.

 

Ramifications(if it becomes public knowledge):

#1: Northern response: Would northern houses tolerate a Targ-bastard or a trueborn Targ with a Stark mother as their King?

#2: Southern response: Especially If he's trueborn some houses could support his claim, some could rally/plot against him, both depending on his intentions about IT and his power level.

#3. Dany's response.

#4: His new intentions: Would he go for IT? It's higher probability if he's trueborn of course. If he hadn't already dealt with he could still have WW problem, which he'd rather focus on instead. He could show no interest in IT like Robb.

#5. Marriage: Assuming Val is not an option/Jon hadn't already married: He could marry a Stark(I think Sansa) for a stronger hold of the North and for probable Vale support. He could ally with and marry Dany for IT if he's trueborn, or ally with/marry her solely for defeating WWs.

 

Of course, at first he could learn that he's a bastard which could later turn out to be wrong and that he's actually trueborn...or the other way around, somehow.

[Lord Lannister]

A lot also depends on how Jon learns of R+L. If he just happens to find an exposition tablet in the crypts that's going to be suspect. Frankly, even the ever missing Howland Reed or the dead Benjen Stark are going to be questionable sources in the eyes of the rest of the world. It wouldn't surprise me though if we the reader find out about R+L but Jon actually never does. Bran's visions being the most obvious route of that. It just seems like something Martin would do, not every loose story thread ends neatly.

[Weirwood Schmeirwood]

These are the kinds of questions that get me so excited that I just want the next book to come out already!!

[Light a wight tonight]

Since the Iron Throne currently belongs to the Baratheons Jon should marry Stannis's daughter Shireen, to bind the North to Stannis, so that they could jointly expunge the false heirs to Robert's throne. 

[IceFire125]

2 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Since the Iron Throne currently belongs to the Baratheons Jon should marry Stannis's daughter Shireen, to bind the North to Stannis, so that they could jointly expunge the false heirs to Robert's throne. 

Shireen is gonna burn.

[Curled Finger]

I've actually thought about this.   I wonder how the Stark kids will react to Jon not being their brother.   Arya won't care, Sansa would be non-plussed, Rickon is too little to care and then there is Bran...hmmm.   Since it seems that everyone assumes all the kids will rise to great power in various er, capacities, I would think their support would be a big deal no matter what Jon chooses to do.   Stannis on the other hand...now THAT would be an interesting response.   Frickin Little Finger is another one I hope to read finding out about this.   I hope he doesn't pull any of that creepy come sit on my lap and give me a kiss crap with Jon.  And Cersei, oh please George, I need to read this.    I can just imagine Varys monumental "didn't see that coming" moment.   Yah, this is some great stuff.   

I think if this revelation becomes public knowledge it has to become a campaign.  (For anything Jon wants to do, Others included.) Targ bastard is ironic, but I'm not sure how that serves Jon, whereas being a baby Rhaegar is something everyone can work with.  (I just got a vision of a gladiator style beat down match between Aegon with Blackfyre and Jon with Longclaw to convince Dany which baby Rhaegar is her favorite nephew).   Maybe even Stannis and those idiots at Castle Black.   Further, I think Dany could actually help Jon embrace his fire & blood nature, you know, get him to quit being such a downer all the time.   That would be good for her, to have a Targ who knows less about his heritage than even she does.   If Martin allows Dany and Jon to ally it could be really good for both of them. 

This proof of parentage is also important and I doubt it will be cheesy. Maybe there is something about it in the Kingsguard White Book of Deeds...Hightower, Whent and Dayne accompanied The Princess Lyanna to the TOJ to await the birth of Prince Rhaegar's...you get the idea. Though I do suspect that if Howland Reed has intel he also has something to back it up with.  With that said, Howland Reed may actually be the one with both pieces of promotional information for Jon.   Robb's will is one of the most tender moments in the entire story.   Robb gives Jon what Ned could not and I really hope Jon learns this information.  OTOH, the Lyanna/Rhaegar stuff is pretty stellar, certainly an overall game changer and he needs that, too.   Someone above made a point about the readers knowing the truth about Jon but he won't and I hope it doesn't end up like that.   Jon's had a rough go and none of this information will make anything easier for him, but knowing that he was adopted and appointed by a boy he loved as his brother, not to mention all those signatures at the bottom of the decree making Jon legitimate.  OK, sappy, but I would still like this kid to have a little happiness.  I do wonder what Howland will decide to spill. 

And I really need to read Stannis' reaction to Jon being a Targ.   Really. 

[purple-eyes]

14 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I've actually thought about this.   I wonder how the Stark kids will react to Jon not being their brother.   Arya won't care, Sansa would be non-plussed, Rickon is too little to care and then there is Bran...hmmm.   Since it seems that everyone assumes all the kids will rise to great power in various er, capacities, I would think their support would be a big deal no matter what Jon chooses to do.   Stannis on the other hand...now THAT would be an interesting response.   Frickin Little Finger is another one I hope to read finding out about this.   I hope he doesn't pull any of that creepy come sit on my lap and give me a kiss crap with Jon.  And Cersei, oh please George, I need to read this.    I can just imagine Varys monumental "didn't see that coming" moment.   Yah, this is some great stuff.   

I think if this revelation becomes public knowledge it has to become a campaign.  (For anything Jon wants to do, Others included.) Targ bastard is ironic, but I'm not sure how that serves Jon, whereas being a baby Rhaegar is something everyone can work with.  (I just got a vision of a gladiator style beat down match between Aegon with Blackfyre and Jon with Longclaw to convince Dany which baby Rhaegar is her favorite nephew).   Maybe even Stannis and those idiots at Castle Black.   Further, I think Dany could actually help Jon embrace his fire & blood nature, you know, get him to quit being such a downer all the time.   That would be good for her, to have a Targ who knows less about his heritage than even she does.   If Martin allows Dany and Jon to ally it could be really good for both of them. 

This proof of parentage is also important and I doubt it will be cheesy. Maybe there is something about it in the Kingsguard White Book of Deeds...Hightower, Whent and Dayne accompanied The Princess Lyanna to the TOJ to await the birth of Prince Rhaegar's...you get the idea. Though I do suspect that if Howland Reed has intel he also has something to back it up with.  With that said, Howland Reed may actually be the one with both pieces of promotional information for Jon.   Robb's will is one of the most tender moments in the entire story.   Robb gives Jon what Ned could not and I really hope Jon learns this information.  OTOH, the Lyanna/Rhaegar stuff is pretty stellar, certainly an overall game changer and he needs that, too.   Someone above made a point about the readers knowing the truth about Jon but he won't and I hope it doesn't end up like that.   Jon's had a rough go and none of this information will make anything easier for him, but knowing that he was adopted and appointed by a boy he loved as his brother, not to mention all those signatures at the bottom of the decree making Jon legitimate.  OK, sappy, but I would still like this kid to have a little happiness.  I do wonder what Howland will decide to spill. 

And I really need to read Stannis' reaction to Jon being a Targ.   Really. 

Where did you see Hightower accompany Lyanna to TOJ?

He went there much later and he went there to look for Rhaegar and summon him back to his duties.

And where did you see Lyanna is Princess Lyanna?

It is quite annoying that people spoke something completely uncertain as if it is iron-like truth.

If this is the case, maybe you should call Merry Meg as Queen Megette too. at least history book recorded their secret wedding.

 

 

[Curled Finger]

Just now, purple-eyes said:

Where did you see Hightower accompany Lyanna to TOJ?

He went there much later and he went there to look for Rhaegar and summon him back to his duties.

And where did you see Lyanna is Princess Lyanna?

It is quite annoying that people spoke something completely uncertain as if it is iron-like truth.

If this is the case, maybe you should call Merry Meg as Queen Megette too. at least history book recorded their secret wedding.

 

 

Your position on Rhaegar & Lyanna is well known.   I speculated that some sort of record may have been kept of the expedition to TOJ.  The point being that a record would be undeniable proof of a marriage blah blah blah.  Relax, I would have supplied citations if I was pushing it off as gospel.   It's a shame you have to attack anyone who doesn't agree with your opinions. 

[redtree]

1. I really hope Davos will get Rickon, i don't buy the tv show that he's

Spoiler

dead because he didn't even think to run zig-zag and looking back. WTF ?

2. If he didn't, i think majority of nobles would still support Sansa who will has the support of Vale so Jon would need to step down
3. I don't think he'll have time to go after IT, he'll defend the Wall
4. Dany will meet fAegon first so if somehow a known northern bastard who doesn't have one bit of targaryen features suddenly claimed that he's her dead brother's trueborn son i highly suspect she'll laugh at his face

Note: Why did people keep calling him white wolf though ? That just reminds me of Geralt of Rivia

[purple-eyes]

20 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Your position on Rhaegar & Lyanna is well known.   I speculated that some sort of record may have been kept of the expedition to TOJ.  The point being that a record would be undeniable proof of a marriage blah blah blah.  Relax, I would have supplied citations if I was pushing it off as gospel.   It's a shame you have to attack anyone who doesn't agree with your opinions. 

I do not care if you hold that opinion, that is your freedom and right.

We are adults and adults are quite stubborn most of the time.

but I really feel that it is quite misleading to speak something like " oh, KG accompanied princess lyanna to toj blablabla.

 

[Curled Finger]

Youmisunderstood what I wrote.  No one else misunderstood my speculation for fact.   This is an opinion thread not actually requiring much proof.   Apparently you are the only person in topic who's been mislead.   You've got over 6000 posts.   But this is one poster you aren't going to punk with your rude or misleading statements.   Make a contribution to the conversation or find someone else to fight with.    You've got nothing here, 

[purple-eyes]

4 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

4 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Youmisunderstood what I wrote.  No one else misunderstood my speculation for fact.   This is an opinion thread not actually requiring much proof.   Apparently you are the only person in topic who's been mislead.   You've got over 6000 posts.   But this is one poster you aren't going to punk with your rude or misleading statements.   Make a contribution to the conversation or find someone else to fight with.    You've got nothing here, 

Youmisunderstood what I wrote.  No one else misunderstood my speculation for fact.   This is an opinion thread not actually requiring much proof.   Apparently you are the only person in topic who's been mislead.   You've got over 6000 posts.   But this is one poster you aren't going to punk with your rude or misleading statements.   Make a contribution to the conversation or find someone else to fight with.    You've got nothing here, 

To be honest the way you worded is indeed confusing, at least for me.

"Targ bastard is ironic, but I'm not sure how that serves Jon, whereas being a baby Rhaegar is something everyone can work with. "

I can not understand this sentence very well, using all my English knowledge. What is baby Rhaegar? so a bastard Jon is not baby of Rhaegar? Or you mean Jon looks so much like baby Rhaegar? by face value, baby rhaegar is Rhaegar when he was a baby. I have no idea what you meant here.

Then you went on and suddenly you got this:

"Maybe there is something about it in the Kingsguard White Book of Deeds...Hightower, Whent and Dayne accompanied The Princess Lyanna to the TOJ to await the birth of Prince Rhaegar's...you get the idea"

Got what idea? The White book were already written after they died and publicly displayed. Likely Jaime wrote these things.

It is just as ridiculous as that photo-shopped Stark tomb script picture: Jon Snow, 283-, father rhaegar, mother lyanna.

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, purple-eyes said:

To be honest the way you worded is indeed confusing, at least for me.

"Targ bastard is ironic, but I'm not sure how that serves Jon, whereas being a baby Rhaegar is something everyone can work with. "

I can not understand this sentence very well, using all my English knowledge. What is baby Rhaegar? so a bastard Jon is not baby of Rhaegar? Or you mean Jon looks so much like baby Rhaegar? by face value, baby rhaegar is Rhaegar when he was a baby. I have no idea what you meant here.

Then you went on and suddenly you got this:

"Maybe there is something about it in the Kingsguard White Book of Deeds...Hightower, Whent and Dayne accompanied The Princess Lyanna to the TOJ to await the birth of Prince Rhaegar's...you get the idea"

Got what idea? The White book were already written after they died and publicly displayed. Likely Jaime wrote these things.

It is just as ridiculous as that photo-shopped Stark tomb script picture: Jon Snow, 283-, father rhaegar, mother lyanna.

I will proceed on the assumption that you're making this public request as a fellow reader and fan, not a jerk just trying to drive a really lame point home.   In the spirit of peace, I utilized 15 year-old slang that has become mainstream on the West Coast of the United States.   My children could be referred to as baby Curled Fingers and your babies could be called baby purple-eyes.  It is a form of slang.   There was no reason for it other than to enjoy myself while composing my reply.   That's all.   There were no sudden transitions.   The OP offers a variety of points to comment upon and that's all I was doing.   Offering my opinions.  The White Book is the only record that came to mind outside the Citadel.   Birth and marriage certificates were not issued and I don't recall a single instance of journaling.   If a written record could be discovered with enough hints, like the names of Kingsguard (because my example was The White Book) with the dates or even the people they accompanied to a destination it could be helpful in validating events at least leading to Jon's birth. Any record naming Lyanna princess or queen would confirm Jon as trueborn.   Hence my inability to resist employing the term "Princess Lyanna"  I didn't say there was evidence of this type.  The "you get the idea" was designed to spare me from writing up the entire history and the way I see things.  Who knows, maybe the midwives keep birth records of some type.  No one cares if I think Rhaegar and Lyanna were married or not.   That's not what this topic was addressing.   In order for Jon to utilize any power associated with being a Targaryan Prince or King people will require proof.   At least I believe they would.    A record would do more than pretty much anything else could do to further this cause.   I understand The White Book is written and the likelihood of a record this nature being there is nill.   The point is simply a written record.   Any number of possibilities are out there for Martin to grab.   Even missing chapters from The White Book if he feels like it. If I ever find The White Book to become a defensible possibility I will start a topic with adequate proof to support my theory.   I haven't seen this tombstone.   

We've taken up too much space in an interesting topic. If you have no reply to my post or any other post in this topic our conversation is done.  

@QuillonI apologize for the unfortunate derailment.   This foolishness has nothing to do with your topic.   It's an old ongoing thing that really has no place here.   My part in this is done.   

[Quillon]

15 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

It just seems like something Martin would do, not every loose story thread ends neatly.

Well this not any loose story, this THE loose story. I'd be disappointed if Jon never finds out himself.

6 hours ago, redtree said:

Note: Why did people keep calling him white wolf though ? That just reminds me of Geralt of Rivia

Yep, if its gonna be in the book like Robb was the Young Wolf, my mind will go to Geralt every time I read "White Wolf".

5 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I apologize for the unfortunate derailment.   This foolishness has nothing to do with your topic.   It's an old ongoing thing that really has no place here.   My part in this is done.   

I don't mind. Not even sure if this is a valid discussion; too much prediction, wishful thinking or fan-fiction's involved. I looked at recent threads like "Whose gonna be whose wife?" etc and decided to go with this. Will see if it goes somewhere.