aSoIaF characters and their tWoIaF and prequels counterpart.

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

 

Robert - Lyonel

"but Steffon’s own firstborn son, Robert, succeeded him as Lord of Storm’s End and grew to be one of the finest knights in the Seven Kingdoms—a warrior so strong and fearless that many hailed him as the Laughing Storm reborn."

Orys one hand - Jaime one hand

both lost their sword hand and what made them happy and great, changed bitterly after it

Dunk - Brienne

well, obviously

 

 

[norwaywolf123]

People i assume are counterparts

With unworthy's reign i mean Aegon the Unworthy

1. Present/ 2. Unworthy's Reign

Robert Baratheon - Aegon the Unworthy

Cersei Lannister - Naerys Targaryen

Jaime Lannister - Aemon the Dragon Knight

Tommen Baratheon - Daeron the Good

Myrcella Baratheon - Daenerys Targaryen Martell

Trystane Martell - Maron Martell

Edric Storm - Daemon Blackfyre

Delena Florent - Daena Targaryen

Lancel Lannister - Baelor the Blessed

Tywin Lannister - Viserys the Second

Jon Snow - Daeron the Young Dragon

Loras "The Knight of Flowers" Tyrell - Quentyn "Fireball" Ball

1. Present/2. Dance of Dragons/3. Aegon's conquest

1. Daenerys Targaryen - 2. Rhaneyra Targaryen - 3. Aegon the Conquror

1. fAegon Targaryen Blackfyre - 2. Aegon the Second

1. Petyr Baelish - 2. Larys Strong - 3. Harren "the Black" Hoare

1. Shireen Baratheon - 3. Argella Durrandon

1. Jon Connington - 2. Boros Baratheon

1. Jon Snow - 2. Cregan Stark - 3. Torrhen Stark

1. Aurane Waters - 3. Visenya Targaryen

1. Arianne Martell - 3. Meria Martell

1. Jaime Lannister - 2. Jason Lannister - 3. Loren Lannister

1. Tyrion Lannister - 2. Tyland Lannister

1. Mace Tyrell - 3. Mern Gardener

1. Robert Ryyn - 3. Ronnel Arryn

1. Sansa Stark - 3 Sharra Arryn

1. High Sparrow - 2. Great Sherpard - 3. Great Septon(Aegon's Conquest)

1. Robb Stark - 3. Orys Baratheon

 

What do you think of these paralells or counterparts? Do they fit? Do you agree or disagree?

[Wm Portnoy]

1. Samwell Tarly = Mushroom
2. Mance Rayder = Bael the Bard
3. Daenerys Targaryen = Aegon the Conqueror
4. Tyrion Lannister = Lann the Clever
5. Aery II = Aegon IV
6. Jon Snow = Torrhen Stark
7. Sansa Stark = the daughter of Lord Brandon Stark, Bael's paramour.
8. Varys = Bloodraven
9. Littlefinger = Bael the Bard
10. Lyanna Stark = the daughter of Lord Brandon Stark, Bael's paramour

[Jon's Queen Consort]

18 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Cersei Lannister - Naerys Targaryen

Jaime Lannister - Aemon the Dragon Knight

Actually they have no similarities so they are not their counterparts.

[norwaywolf123]

12 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Actually they have no similarities so they are not their counterparts.

They both has affairs where one was queen and one was kingsguard

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, norwaywolf123 said:

They both has affairs where one was queen and one was kingsguard

The fact that they had affairs, which we don't know if it was true about Aemon, doesn't make them counterparts.

Naerys was said to be pious, gentle and kind. Cersei is the completely opposite and Jaime tried to kill a child, was ready to kill another one and killed his King. I can't recall Aemon doing something like that.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 3/8/2016 at 1:41 AM, Nictarion said:

This is rich coming from you.

Maybe I am boring sometimes. However I don't support someone who killed 12 years old children and maybe even younger because she felt like it. So I might be boring but at least I don't support genocide.

[Adam Targaryen]

A lot of these are super great, and though I myself made a thread about the extreme parallells between Aegon IV's family and Robert's "family" (where I focused on the similarities of Daeron and Tommen), I hadn't even thought about such things as Lancel as Baelor. I had thought about Edric as Daemon, though.

 

Anyway, going to add some as well as summarizing:

 

1. Brienne and Pod - Dunk & Egg

2. Daenerys - Aegon the Conqueror

3. Tommen - Daeron II (Shocking parallells between extended families included)

4. Mace Tyrell - Otto Hightower? (Don't know that much about Otto, but they actually remind me of one another)

5. Cersei - Alicent Hightower (Obviously in the sense that Tywin is Otto)

6. Illyrio - Ambrose Butterwell

7. Stannis - Maekar

8. Robert Arryn - Ronnel Arryn

9. Doran Martell - Meria Martell

10. Joffrey, Tommen & Myrcella Baratheon - Jacaerys, Lucerys & Joffrey Velaryon

11. Tyrion - Mushroom?

12. Walder Frey - Harren "The Black" (Lord of the Riverlands, old bad guy, big family, hides inside a big tower, will probably get what's coming to him)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

8 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

3. Tommen - Daeron II (Shocking parallells between extended families included)

Can we say that? I mean Tommen is 10 how he is Daeron's counterparts?

 

[norwaywolf123]

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

The fact that they had affairs, which we don't know if it was true about Aemon, doesn't make them counterparts.

Naerys was said to be pious, gentle and kind. Cersei is the completely opposite and Jaime tried to kill a child, was ready to kill another one and killed his King. I can't recall Aemon doing something like that.

we don't know alot od Naerys and Aemon.... Only the offical story. Not many people in westeros think or know that Jaime pushed bran for example 

[norwaywolf123]

3 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Can we say that? I mean Tommen is 10 how he is Daeron's counterparts?

 

 similarities between Daeron "The Good" II and Tommen. Both have a fat, whoring, "unworthy" father (Let's face it, Aegon IV is basically an exaggerated, malevolent version of Robert). I even believe that both Aegon and Robert are described as having grown beards in their later years in order to hide their double-chins. Also, Tommen and Daeron are both plump and good-hearted with light golden hair(Daeron might have silver-golden hair but it's almost the same). Tommen's real father is Jaime, his maternal uncle and a member of the Kingsguard since his teens. Daeron's real father was believed by some to have been Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, his maternal uncle and a member of the Kingsguard since his teens. Even if Daeron's father was Aegon, they're both born from incest. Speaking of family, Daeron's only grandfather was a shrewd old man who served as a competent Hand for many years and grew stern after his wife left him. See a parallel to Tywin? Lastly, Daeron's sister Daenerys married Maron Martell, a Dornishman, to make Dorne a part of the fold. Tommen's sister Myrcella is engaged to Trystane Martell, in order to keep Dorne in the fold. Furthermore, one could possibly argue that there are similarities between for example Edric Storm and Daemon Blackfyre

[Jon's Queen Consort]

26 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

we don't know alot od Naerys and Aemon.... Only the offical story. Not many people in westeros think or know that Jaime pushed bran for example 

Yet we know that Naerys wasn't a psychopathic, I hate that word, killer who started killing when she was 10, had abused her brother his whole life, enjoyed torturing people and gave birth to a monster. Naerys and Cersei except for an affair which we don't know if there was one in Naerys' case have no 

23 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

similarities between Daeron "The Good" II and Tommen. Both have a fat, whoring, "unworthy" father (Let's face it, Aegon IV is basically an exaggerated, malevolent version of Robert).

Tommen's father is Jaime.

23 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Tommen and Daeron are both plump

I have never read about Daeron being "plump".

23 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Daeron's real father was believed by some to have been Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, his maternal uncle and a member of the Kingsguard since his teens.

It isn't sure if Aemon was Daeron's father. Also Aemon was his maternal and paternal uncle.

23 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Daeron's only grandfather was a shrewd old man who served as a competent Hand for many years and grew stern after his wife left him.

Joanna died she didn't abandoned Tywin and Viserys hadn't killed children. Also Viserys was the only man Aegon III trusted when Tywin was untrustworthy.

23 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

See a parallel to Tywin?

Not really.

23 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Lastly, Daeron's sister Daenerys married Maron Martell, a Dornishman, to make Dorne a part of the fold. Tommen's sister Myrcella is engaged to Trystane Martell, in order to keep Dorne in the fold. 

And he was married to a Martell. 

23 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Edric Storm and Daemon Blackfyre

Not really.

 

I am not saying that in the future Tommen couldn't be involved in someone like Daeron, I am saying that for now they are not counterparts.

[Adam Targaryen]

15 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Can we say that? I mean Tommen is 10 how he is Daeron's counterparts?

 

If you're referring to the fact that Tommen appears two times on my list, both at number 3 and at number 10, then it's as simple as this: He can have several historical parallels/counterparts. If you're referring to the fact that Tommen is 10 years old (which I'm not 100 % that he is, he may be 9), then just compare Tommen to a 10-year-old Daeron.

 

 

Right then, since it was my old post that norwaywolf123 quoted I suppose I'll answer to these:

 

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Tommen's father is Jaime.

Obviously, but legally his father is Robert and he grew up with Robert as a father etc. etc.

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I have never read about Daeron being "plump".

Daeron was round shouldered and had a small pot belly, according to awoiaf.westeros.org

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

It isn't sure if Aemon was Daeron's father.

...which is why I wrote "was believed by some to have been" and not "was".

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Also Aemon was his maternal and paternal uncle.

Only if Aegon really was his father and even in that case it doesn't matter, because Jaime was not Tommen's paternal uncle, hence that was not a similarity between Tommen and Daeron and not  worth to mention.

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Joanna died she didn't abandoned Tywin

...which is why I, very consciously, chose to write "left" and not "abandoned", as "left" can mean both "die" and "abandoned", depending on how you interpret it.

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

and Viserys hadn't killed children.

I didn't say he had, the other similarities between these men are big enough without them both needing to have killed children for anyone to see a resemblance.

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Also Viserys was the only man Aegon III trusted when Tywin was untrustworthy.

Well, in that you may be right. Still, as I've said, I think that looking at the bigger picture(the families), Viserys and Tywin are definitely alike enough for them to be considered parallels.

 

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I am not saying that in the future Tommen couldn't be involved in someone like Daeron, I am saying that for now they are not counterparts.

I'm not sure what you mean by "be involved with someone like Daeron", but I'm guessing you're talking about the fact that Tommen is still young and hasn't turned out to be that similar to Daeron yet. Well, I definitely think Tommen will die in a year or two and won't get a chance to do the things Daeron did as an adult but in my opinion the similarities are still absolutely compelling and I frankly can't see how anyone could think otherwise.

 

BTW, I completely agree that Naerys and Cersei are as different as can be personality-wise, but that's pretty much the only thing that doesn't add up. Everything else about it screams "parallel" to me.

[norwaywolf123]

On 9.8.2016 at 8:30 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

The fact that they had affairs, which we don't know if it was true about Aemon, doesn't make them counterparts.

Naerys was said to be pious, gentle and kind. Cersei is the completely opposite and Jaime tried to kill a child, was ready to kill another one and killed his King. I can't recall Aemon doing something like that.

im just saying that people in planetos not readers dont all know that jaime and cersei had a affair just rumors that they did.

[norwaywolf123]

 

19 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Right then, since it was my old post that norwaywolf123 quoted I suppose I'll answer to these:

Thanx

 

[ShadowCat Rivers]

Arya and Egg. So many parallels - from small ones like catch phrases ("I could if I wanted to") to behavioural patterns, and many many plot parallels. Especially Arya and Sandor is, IMO, a dark reflection of Dunk and Egg.

One of my favourite details is the parallel-contrast where Egg reflects on Dunk's "clout in the ear" and believes that Dunk would never actually do it, while Arya also ponders on Sandor's "cut off your tongue" and while she doudt's he'd do it, she thinks it's best not to try him.

 

Btw, in regards to the Nymeria parallels discussion, I think that Daenerys makes the best fit so far. It's nothing about *liking* the character, it's about the aspects that the two characters and their respective plots have in common. (And, in the end, it says nothing about the "current" character's eventual fate - literary parallels are not at all like the geometrical, they include departures and subversions as well.)

[Jon's Queen Consort]

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

If you're referring to the fact that Tommen appears two times on my list, both at number 3 and at number 10, then it's as simple as this: He can have several historical parallels/counterparts. If you're referring to the fact that Tommen is 10 years old (which I'm not 100 % that he is, he may be 9), then just compare Tommen to a 10-year-old Daeron.

By counterparts the OP means more psychological and personality wise  than circumstantial similarities like "plump".

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Obviously, but legally his father is Robert and he grew up with Robert as a father etc. etc.

Robert wasn't cruel like Aegon.

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

...which is why I wrote "was believed by some to have been" and not "was".

A counterpart isn't based on rumours. 

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Only if Aegon really was his father and even in that case it doesn't matter, because Jaime was not Tommen's paternal uncle, hence that was not a similarity between Tommen and Daeron and not  worth to mention.

It wasn't me who mentioned.

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

...which is why I, very consciously, chose to write "left" and not "abandoned", as "left" can mean both "die" and "abandoned", depending on how you interpret it.

To me "left" implies that someone wanted to leave.

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

I didn't say he had, the other similarities between these men are big enough without them both needing to have killed children for anyone to see a resemblance.

The fact that they were grumpy and had no wife is more important that they were totally different? No, that isn't what a counterpart means. 

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Well, in that you may be right. Still, as I've said, I think that looking at the bigger picture(the families), Viserys and Tywin are definitely alike enough for them to be considered parallels.

Not really. The fact that they were Hands, grumpy and with no wife doesn't make them parallels.

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "be involved with someone like Daeron", but I'm guessing you're talking about the fact that Tommen is still young and hasn't turned out to be that similar to Daeron yet. Well, I definitely think Tommen will die in a year or two and won't get a chance to do the things Daeron did as an adult but in my opinion the similarities are still absolutely compelling and I frankly can't see how anyone could think otherwise.

Because they are just circumstantial similarities based entirely on some gossips when everything else has huge differences.

22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

BTW, I completely agree that Naerys and Cersei are as different as can be personality-wise, but that's pretty much the only thing that doesn't add up. Everything else about it screams "parallel" to me.

Because Aemon was used for his habit to kill children and his King?

[Adam Targaryen]

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

By counterparts the OP means more psychological and personality wise  than circumstantial similarities like "plump".

First of all, though we don't know that much about Daeron's personality I definitely think that they are alike personality-wise. I think Daeron was a sweet and innocent boy when he was little, just like Tommen. He is said to have had a kind face, for example, and for those saying Tommen is too weak and bla bla bla, first of all he is still young, second Daeron's political agreement with Dorne - where he basically allowed the entire Targaryen bloodline to become diluted by Rhoynish genes - always seemed like a somewhat amiable and Tommen-like move to me. The point is, I think their personalities are quite alike and I think Daeron was much like Tommen when he was just a boy as well as to a degree later in life.

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Robert wasn't cruel like Aegon.

No, but there are big similarities. The whoring, the drinking, the feasting, the lack of love for his legal children etc. In my opinion Aegon is, as I said, a malevolent version of Robert and they are alike enough for Tommen to be a counterpart of Daeron, LOOKING AT THE BIGGER PICTURE.

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

A counterpart isn't based on rumours. 

Well, perhaps not according to your definition

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

It wasn't me who mentioned.

Yes it was, you said "Also Aemon was his maternal and paternal uncle".

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

To me "left" implies that someone wanted to leave.

Yes, of course it can be interpreted like that, but it's also possible to interpret as someone having died.

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

The fact that they were grumpy and had no wife is more important that they were totally different? No, that isn't what a counterpart means. 

Not really. The fact that they were Hands, grumpy and with no wife doesn't make them parallels.

Of course they are not similar enough to be counterparts/parallels in their own right, but my Daeron/Tommen "theory" is ONCE AGAIN BASED ON THE BIGGER PICTURE, mostly focusing on Daeron and Tommen's familial and political ties as well as noticing a lot of (be it large or small) similarities between people.

16 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Because Aemon was used for his habit to kill children and his King?

We can never know for sure what type of person he was but I myself think Aemon was a super good guy, like Naerys, so alas, I'll have to agree with you on this as well.

 

In conclusion, it seems like you have a somewhat strict/well-defined definition of what counts as a counterpart/parallel in this thread - they have to have very similar personalities - while my definition is a bit broader. I could either see it as "This is your thread and in your thread we'll play by your rules" or go ahead and say "Hey man, why can't we all say what we personally think counts as a counterpart and just have fun in this thread?", but I suppose that I myself would want to be in charge of the contents of my own thread so in the future I'll try to see it from your perspective. I retain that my Tommen/Daeron thing is perfect according to mine and many others' "counterpart" definition, though.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

20 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

First of all, though we don't know that much about Daeron's personality I definitely think that they are alike personality-wise. I think Daeron was a sweet and innocent boy when he was little, just like Tommen. He is said to have had a kind face, for example, and for those saying Tommen is too weak and bla bla bla, first of all he is still young, second Daeron's political agreement with Dorne - where he basically allowed the entire Targaryen bloodline to become diluted by Rhoynish genes - always seemed like a somewhat amiable and Tommen-like move to me. The point is, I think their personalities are quite alike and I think Daeron was much like Tommen when he was just a boy as well as to a degree later in life.

You don't make sense. We don't know how 10 years old Daeron was and we don't know how adult Tommen will be. You cannot compare those two.

20 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

No, but there are big similarities. The whoring, the drinking, the feasting, the lack of love for his legal children etc. In my opinion Aegon is, as I said, a malevolent version of Robert and they are alike enough for Tommen to be a counterpart of Daeron, LOOKING AT THE BIGGER PICTURE.

Can you scream a little louder? I can barely listen to you.

20 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Well, perhaps not according to your definition

And that is your opinion. But is what the OP is about.

You are basing your wishful thinking on gossips and rumors with no evidence that you are right. That seems a little bit like fan fiction.

20 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Yes it was, you said "Also Aemon was his maternal and paternal uncle".

And?

20 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Yes, of course it can be interpreted like that, but it's also possible to interpret as someone having died.

Yet you seem to believe that dying and abandoning someone is the same.

20 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Of course they are not similar enough to be counterparts/parallels in their own right, but my Daeron/Tommen "theory" is ONCE AGAIN BASED ON THE BIGGER PICTURE, mostly focusing on Daeron and Tommen's familial and political ties as well as noticing a lot of (be it large or small) similarities between people.

Your Tommen=Daeron wishful thinking is based only on gossips and circumstantial similarities and nothing more.

[The Fresh PtwP]

On 8/1/2016 at 11:13 AM, Nevets said:

Brienne & Podrick and Dunk & Egg

Dunk vs. Aerion Brightflame and Arya vs Joffrey

I always thought Brienne vs. Loras was more the Dunk vs. Brightflame of "our" time.

Sansa and Ashara Dayne

Gendry and Gaemon Palehair

Robert and Viserys I

Tywin and Otto Hightower

Cersei and Alicient Hightower