If Rhaegar left a will who would have it?

[the tower of albion]

On the way back to kings landing ready to take charge of the forces that would meet Robert on the trident, if Rhaegar had drawn up a will in case he died (like Rob Stark) legitimizing his unborn child with Lyanna who would he of entrusted it to?

[Universal Sword Donor]

Ser Arthur Dayne, given that his father was insane and he hadn't seen anyone else he trusted in months.

[Michael Mertyns]

Rhaegar would have no legal basis to legitimize his child while his father was still king.

[IceFire125]

Howland Reed could possibly be holding two documents all pointing to Jon being king. 

1. King Robb Stark for Jon to be the heir of the KitN

2. King Aerys Targaryen's legitimizing Rhaegar's marriage with Lyanna via the old gods; giving it to Hightower and a possible reason to convince Rhaegar to return.  This also binds Hightower, let alone the other 2KG, to the TOJ, staying there instead of going to Viserys.  There was a higher claimant to their Kingsguard vows than the young prince at Dragonstone.  

However, I don't think Jon will choose.  In the end, responsibilities and duties, titles and the ultimate crown will be thrust upon on him via the Great Council, just as the responsibilities of a Lord Commander was thrust upon him without his asking or him claiming.

 

 

 

[purple-eyes]

Rhaegar was never ever a king, not even for one second. So he can not legitimize anybody. The only thing he can write is that he acknowledged the unborn child from Lyanna Stark was his bastard. 

[dariopatke]

But he seemed pretty cocky before he departed so I dont think he hought it was necessary to write a will (or something about acknowledging his kid since he was not in position to create a will).

[Lurid Jester]

54 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

Rhaegar was never ever a king, not even for one second. So he can not legitimize anybody. The only thing he can write is that he acknowledged the unborn child from Lyanna Stark was his bastard. 

Unless, you know, polygamy.  

[sweetsunray]

There's no will, since Rhaegar was crown prince, but not the King, and he was fighting for his father the King.

I do think though there is a treasure buried in the crypts. In aCoK, Jon seeks Sam in the library vault of Castle Black. Sam calls books "treasures", while Jon thinks to himself "treasures are gold, silver and jewels not books in a dusty place full of spiders" (paraphrasing here)

And a few paragraphs later Jon thinks of the other men of the NW "digging for treasures in Mole's Town", which is basically an underground village, and an expression used to sleep with a whore. Jon assumes his mother was a whore. Oh and he's wearing gloves of moleskin and moles are blind... Jon knows nothing.

I think the Targs have their personal geneology book, and the last line of the book has Rhaegar's writing of his marriage before a heart tree to Lyanna (with him not giving a fuck what the king says or a septon would say) and the name of the child that Lyanna was to birth, signed and witnessed by Arthur and Whent and Hightower. Ned buried it with Lyanna's bones in her tomb. Vows made before the Old Gods can't be undone, not by a king, not by a septon, not even the Northerners. There's just no way those 3 KG remained at the ToJ, especially the LC to keep a dying mistress and a newborn bastard safe while their prince rode out to battle or the believed King Viserys was in need of protection.

It nicely parallels Ned studying the geneology book that Pycelle gave him and helped him discover that Robret's children weren't his. One book making clear children are bastards, another one making Jon trueborn, and the last is gathering dust and is surrounded by spiders in a "vault" (aka tomb).

[Lady Lia]

4 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Unless, you know, polygamy.  

If polygamy is still allowed to Targaryens, any child born of such a marriage would be legitimate from the start, making the point moot.

[Universal Sword Donor]

2 minutes ago, Lady Lia said:

If polygamy is still allowed to Targaryens, any child born of such a marriage would be legitimate from the start, making the point moot.

Well not really. He still needs to tell people he's married. If the mom and father are both dead, that is kind of hard to do in a believable way, especially when the people who were there and trustworthy enough to believe (KG) are dead.

[Lurid Jester]

2 minutes ago, Lady Lia said:

If polygamy is still allowed to Targaryens, any child born of such a marriage would be legitimate from the start, making the point moot.

Right, I get you but so far anytime I've seen some say that whether R+L=J or not, Jon would still be a bastard someone jumps on the polygamy bandwagon (which sounds horrible byw) so I thought I'd preempt.  

Not sure I believe it or not, but it's floating around. 

[Lady Lia]

2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Well not really. He still needs to tell people he's married. If the mom and father are both dead, that is kind of hard to do in a believable way, especially when the people who were there and trustworthy enough to believe (KG) are dead.

That's quite true. The 'moot point' I meant was whether Rhaegar could have legitimised Jon or not.

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Well not really. He still needs to tell people he's married. If the mom and father are both dead, that is kind of hard to do in a believable way, especially when the people who were there and trustworthy enough to believe (KG) are dead.

Hence a personal Targaryen geneology book that was kept by the family. Rhaegar wrote in the marriage line and the KG (witnesses) signed it. And buried in Lyanna's crypts means it was buried together with her all those years ago, to hide the truth. It's hard to claim it's a forgery if found like that. 

And the whole is "polygamy legit discussion" is moot imo if Rhaegar married Lyanna before a weirwood tree. No man's law or opinion or "heh" supercedes vows made before the Old Gods or the laws of the Old Gods.

[Universal Sword Donor]

5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Hence a personal Targaryen geneology book that was kept by the family. Rhaegar wrote in the marriage line and the KG (witnesses) signed it. And buried in Lyanna's crypts means it was buried together with her all those years ago, to hide the truth. It's hard to claim it's a forgery if found like that. 

And the whole is "polygamy legit discussion" is moot imo if Rhaegar married Lyanna before a weirwood tree. No man's law or opinion or "heh" supercedes vows made before the Old Gods or the laws of the Old Gods.

The North might have no issues with it, but 6/7 of the kingdom doesn't believe in the Old Gods and a solid chunk have little or no respect for the customs.

6 minutes ago, Lady Lia said:

That's quite true. The 'moot point' I meant was whether Rhaegar could have legitimised Jon or not.

Ah ok. I just kinda assumed that and worked it in

[sweetsunray]

7 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The North might have no issues with it, but 6/7 of the kingdom doesn't believe in the Old Gods and a solid chunk have little or no respect for the customs.

Ah ok. I just kinda assumed that and worked it in

And a solid chunk is gonna be dead soon, hanged and killed at a wedding by a woman they saw killed and chucked into a river or face ice demons and krakens believed to have been grumkins stories. I'm guessing there will be few people who'll argue "meh, magic and Old Gods, we don't believe in that."

[Universal Sword Donor]

17 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And a solid chunk is gonna be dead soon, hanged and killed at a wedding by a woman they saw killed and chucked into a river or face ice demons and krakens believed to have been grumkins stories. I'm guessing there will be few people who'll argue "meh, magic and Old Gods, we don't believe in that."

Just because they come face to face with things from legend, which aren't even really tied to the old gods, doesn't mean they will forsake the only religion they've ever known.

[sweetsunray]

19 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Just because they come face to face with things from legend, which aren't even really tied to the old gods, doesn't mean they will forsake the only religion they've ever known.

So, am I correct in assuming that you are arguing that smallfolk and surviving nobles and septons will say, "we've seen an army of dead with starry blue eyes and ice demons that were stories from 8000 years ago, and we survived it. We've seen a dead woman come alive and avenge the red wedding, but well they have nothing to do with Old God. Man's laws rules over the gods"?  If as you say people will not abandon the only religion they've ever known (the Faith) after what they see, then why are there so many fires burning every evening in the Riverlands?

[Universal Sword Donor]

7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

So, am I correct in assuming that you are arguing that smallfolk and surviving nobles and septons will say, "we've seen an army of dead with starry blue eyes and ice demons that were stories from 8000 years ago, and we survived it. We've seen a dead woman come alive and avenge the red wedding, but well they have nothing to do with Old God. Man's laws rules over the gods"?  If as you say people will not abandon the only religion they've ever known (the Faith) after what they see, then why are there so many fires burning every evening in the Riverlands?

It's very cold. Fire is warmer than no fire.

[sweetsunray]

Just now, Universal Sword Donor said:

It's very cold. Fire is warmer than no fire.

And it's got nothing to do with following Rh'llor then?

[Universal Sword Donor]

7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And it's got nothing to do with following Rh'llor then?

People were making fires long before Red Rahloo was a twinkle in anyone's eye. Humans definitely had fire on Earth tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago (if not far far far earlier). I imagine that Westeros isn't too different.