What the Heck Happened to Baby Maegor?

[Lord Varys]

7 hours ago, J. Stargaryen said:

That could provide the motive right there. Aerion helped to defeat the Blackfyres and his son was passed over. Not much of a reward.

Well, but little Maegor was an infant when that happened. And back during the first Great Council when Laenor Velaryon was passed over in favor of Prince Viserys this did not lead to some permanent rift between these two families despite the fact that Laenor could remember the humiliation being seven years at the time and him having the support of his long-lived, rich-as-hell parents his entire life.

Maegor also lacked a father who could fuel his hatred, and we don't actually if his mother Daenora yet lived (she could have died in childbirth) or what kind of person she was. I have the feeling that Aerion's faction - perhaps led by her and her resentment that she, the daughter of Prince Rhaegel of the elder Targaryen branch, was passed over in favor of Maekar in 221 AC - must have been pretty strong in 233 AC else there would have been no threat of another Dance.

However, with the assembled lords making it very clear that they would not support an infant child of Mad Aerion's the cause of little Maegor would have died in infancy - just as the Velaryons understood in 101 AC that a majority of the lords would not not rise in Laenor's name.

Knowing Aegon V I find it very unlikely that he did treat his cousin and little nephew unkindly or sidelined them in an aggressive way.

The problem with Aerion's role during the Third Rebellion is that Aerion could have killed some close kin of Illyrio's with his own hands. I mean, why would Varys Targaryen, the son of Prince Maegor, want to supplant the Targaryen dynasty with some half-Blackfyre? He could easily enough have arranged a marriage between his sister, the ominous Serra Targaryen, with Prince Rhaegar to finally help to seat a Targaryen born from the elder line on the Iron Throne. That's what Viserys I tried to do when he married Laenor Velaryon to his daughter and heir, Princess Rhaenyra.

But then, such an idea only works if you believe that Varys and Serra are brother and sister - which I do not.

7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The fixation on Maegor is that he is a loose thread. The George needs to tie it off. 

Not really. Some loose ends can just remain loose ends. We don't have to get a complete overview on the Targaryen family tree. And Summerhall works perfectly fine as an explanation for the end of Maegor and his line.

7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

And I also agree it is much more likely that Varys is just some seed of a Targaryen prince or the unfortunate son of a Blackfyre who died young than a descendant of Aerion.The reason to doubt that Varys was born a slave is that it came from Pycelle, who was trying to make your favorite eunuch look bad in the eyes of Eddard, whereas Varys himself tells Tyrion he was apprenticed as an orphan, suggesting someone paid his apprentice fee. He was sold later, but he wouldna be the first free boy sold into slavery. Whether we choose to believe one possibility doesn't eliminate the other possibility. 

I think we already discussed this once, didn't we? We don't know whether Varys' master was Westerosi or Essosi. Talented Lysene slaves could easily enough be sold to some mummery show and receive a free education there - after all, as slaves they would then make money for their master, never being able to earn an income in their own right.

The fact that the boy was eventually sold to the sorcerer is a strong indication that he was a slave at this point. But then, if Varys obscured his own origins later in life he could even have erased the fact that he was born in Lys. If we go by that he could have been born anywhere.

However, the fact that secret Aegon conference where Varys, Illyrio, Myles Toyne, and Jon Connington where all present (and Illyrio eventually handed the boy to Connington) took place at Lys of all places could be a hint that Varys is actually really connected to Lys in some fashion. It could also have been Pentos, Myr, or Tyrosh, after all. This connection also makes it rather likely to me that Lysono Maar is Varys and Illyro's new man in the Golden Company, tasked to ensure that things go into a direction they want it to go.

People usually wonder whether Varys/Illyrio would have been in favor of Aegon's invasion if they had been there. I think they would. Going to Meereen is risky and could easily enough postpone the thing again, and Westeros might recover in time. In addition the whole thing might actually help to draw Daenerys to Westeros so that they could forge an alliance there. I'm pretty sure even Varys and Illyrio will underestimate the speed in which Aegon will succeed in Westeros. And then they will began to wonder what the hell they need Daenerys for, after all.

7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

And I also think it is much more likely that Varys is just some seed of a Targaryen prince or the unfortunate son of a Blackfyre who died young than a descendant of Aerion. 

Just to clarify: If Varys is the legitimate child of a Blackfyre he must be the son of a female Blackfyre unless we assume Illyrio and Yandel both lied when they said House Blackfyre is extinct in the male line (Yandel might simply not know better but Illyrio certainly would).

Varys certainly could easily enough be a Targaryen or Blackfyre bastard, though. Those people do not really count. As a bastard he could even be Aerys II's half-brother or something of that sort (although I'm not sure Jaehaerys II entertained any mistresses).

If we go with Illyrio being a descendant of Daemon I and Bittersteel through Calla and a bunch of daughters (as I do) then Varys certainly could be closer to the male Blackfyre branch, being a son or grandson of a daughter of Aenys Blackfyre or the son or a sister or daughter of that unfortunate fourth Daemon Blackfyre who was killed by Maelys. The chance that he is closely related to Maelys himself is unlikely, in my opinion, because the line of the last Blackfyre would have been watched rather closely.

But then, we still have no clue who the two younger Blackfyre sons were nor how they fit into the family tree. There are much more loose ends in the Blackfyre family tree than there are in the Targaryen family tree.

[DigUpHerBones]

being part Arryn might open up the Gulltown Arryn storyline, where *something* is hiding?

super wealthy cadet branch of a high house that made their money by marrying merchants?

add into the equation some major event occurred that made the rest of the Arryn's disown them? 

no timeline is given per usu, but pretty easy to hide someone under those circumstances, i would think?

[estermonty python]

On 12/9/2016 at 5:34 PM, Lord Varys said:

But Aegon V most definitely would have kept an eye on his nephew Maegor had the boy lived, and Jaehaerys II and Aerys II would have done so, too. If the man held any grudges against the branch of Aegon V they would have been very wary of any attempts from that side to reclaim the throne that was withheld from him.

This is true.  Not only that, but there's no way that none of Robert's advisors would have been aware of Maegor and his line if he, or his descendents, were still alive under their given names.  Robert wasn't exactly bookish, but considering his obsession with wiping out Targaryens, it seems unlikely that no one would have mentioned Maegor to him at some point, if there was any question as to his ultimate fate.

On 12/9/2016 at 7:54 PM, Maxxine said:

Wow this interesting & full of possibilities. My gut says that GRRM just forgot about him. But that doesn't mean he can't do something with him now & make him somehow relevant. I like the Tattered Prince idea. Makes him more relevant & not as much as a random extra. Plus the name would fit too. I guess the age thing could be an issue. But the TL in this series is convoluted & fuzzy anyway so I wouldn't be hurt if his age is off by a few years

I don't really think the age thing is an issue. It's within, what, 5 years?  That's more than fudgeable - and there's no real reason to believe ever detail of the Tattered Prince's story.  If he's lying about being a Targ, why wouldn't he also slightly lie about his age?  I'm not saying I buy it (although I like it), just saying that the least believable thing about the Tattered Prince being Maegor Targaryen is NOT that Maegor would be 67 and he's only 62.

On 12/9/2016 at 9:35 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

The fixation on Maegor is that he is a loose thread. The George needs to tie it off. 

Despite entertaining more convoluted theories, I agree that the most likely outcome for Maegor is death before offspring, or as you suggest, that he and his line were extinguished at Summerhall. 

The more I think about it, the more I think that GRRM may be keeping Maegor on the bench to reappear in a Dunk and Egg novella, either as part of a rebellion or as part of Summerhall.  Considering he's been mentioned somewhere between zero and one time in the ASOIAF series, there's just no way he's important to the plot.  He's infinitely more likely to play a role in a Dunk & Egg narrative.  

On 12/10/2016 at 5:52 AM, Lord Varys said:

Some loose ends can just remain loose ends. We don't have to get a complete overview on the Targaryen family tree. And Summerhall works perfectly fine as an explanation for the end of Maegor and his line.

While I agree in general with those first two sentiments, the patrilineal primacy of the Targs makes some resolution of the Maegor question important, even if its just GRRM clarifying via a Q&A at some point.

I agree that Summerhall works fine as an explanation, and whether that's always been the answer or if GRRM just retroactively clarifies that Maegor died at Summerhall, either is sufficient.  

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, estermonty python said:

This is true.  Not only that, but there's no way that none of Robert's advisors would have been aware of Maegor and his line if he, or his descendents, were still alive under their given names.  Robert wasn't exactly bookish, but considering his obsession with wiping out Targaryens, it seems unlikely that no one would have mentioned Maegor to him at some point, if there was any question as to his ultimate fate.

Yeah, Maegor's legitimate children would have been too prominent for the Targaryens to not continue to watch for them. And since either Varys or Illyrio would have to be a son of Maegor's (or Serra his daughter) I find this idea pretty hard to swallow.

If we go by illegitimate children all bets are off. But in such a setting we don't have to restrict ourselves to obscure Targaryens - Maekar could have had bastards, Daeron the Drunk, Aemon, Aegon V, Duncan, Jaehaerys II, Daeron the Gay (assuming he had some threesome once in his life). There is literally no end to this whole list. Varys could even Aerys II's own bastard if the man began sleeping around very early in life, around the time of or shortly before his marriage.

2 hours ago, estermonty python said:

I don't really think the age thing is an issue. It's within, what, 5 years?  That's more than fudgeable - and there's no real reason to believe ever detail of the Tattered Prince's story.  If he's lying about being a Targ, why wouldn't he also slightly lie about his age?  I'm not saying I buy it (although I like it), just saying that the least believable thing about the Tattered Prince being Maegor Targaryen is NOT that Maegor would be 67 and he's only 62.

Yeah, it would be an interesting idea. But then Maegor and Varys/Illyrio would be clearly on different sides because the Tattered Prince clearly is going to be a guy who has inside information on Varys and Illyrio's origins.

2 hours ago, estermonty python said:

The more I think about it, the more I think that GRRM may be keeping Maegor on the bench to reappear in a Dunk and Egg novella, either as part of a rebellion or as part of Summerhall.  Considering he's been mentioned somewhere between zero and one time in the ASOIAF series, there's just no way he's important to the plot.  He's infinitely more likely to play a role in a Dunk & Egg narrative.

That is certainly a strong possibility. We certainly will see him as an infant should George write a story about the Great Council. And perhaps even earlier on if there is a story about Aerion's death in 232 AC.

One would imagine he was raised as a ward of the Crown by Aegon V in his own household if his mother didn't leave court. And thinking about the ruined marriage contracts one wonders who the hell Celia Tully married in the end. Did she perhaps end up marrying Prince Maegor Targaryen? Then the Tullys might have been involved in one of those rebellions against the Iron Throne...

2 hours ago, estermonty python said:

While I agree in general with those first two sentiments, the patrilineal primacy of the Targs makes some resolution of the Maegor question important, even if its just GRRM clarifying via a Q&A at some point.

I agree that Summerhall works fine as an explanation, and whether that's always been the answer or if GRRM just retroactively clarifies that Maegor died at Summerhall, either is sufficient.  

Well, there is another male branch of House Targaryen unaccounted for - what happened to Prince Aegon the youngest son of Prince Baelon and Princess Alyssa? If we take the family tree as gospel he died without issue. But then the same would be true for Prince Maegor.

[estermonty python]

20 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If we go by illegitimate children all bets are off. But in such a setting we don't have to restrict ourselves to obscure Targaryens - Maekar could have had bastards, Daeron the Drunk, Aemon, Aegon V, Duncan, Jaehaerys II, Daeron the Gay (assuming he had some threesome once in his life). There is literally no end to this whole list. Varys could even Aerys II's own bastard if the man began sleeping around very early in life, around the time of or shortly before his marriage.

Well, there is another male branch of House Targaryen unaccounted for - what happened to Prince Aegon the youngest son of Prince Baelon and Princess Alyssa? If we take the family tree as gospel he died without issue. But then the same would be true for Prince Maegor.

Yeah, once we get into illegitimacy you can't take a step without tripping over a Targ.  I think sometimes people forget that the Blackfyre bastards were legitimized, which is the legal reason they were such a pain in the ass for so long.

It's a good point about Aegon - basically he looks to be missing those three words that tie a bow on the majority of his aunts and uncles (his parents' 11 siblings): "he died young."  Presumably he did die young - otherwise Viserys I could have turned to him after the "King for a Day" incident turned him against Daemon, and that doesn't appear to have been an option.  But its an oversight, no doubt.  

 

[Lord Varys]

21 minutes ago, estermonty python said:

Yeah, once we get into illegitimacy you can't take a step without tripping over a Targ.  I think sometimes people forget that the Blackfyre bastards were legitimized, which is the legal reason they were such a pain in the ass for so long.

It's a good point about Aegon - basically he looks to be missing those three words that tie a bow on the majority of his aunts and uncles (his parents' 11 siblings): "he died young."  Presumably he did die young - otherwise Viserys I could have turned to him after the "King for a Day" incident turned him against Daemon, and that doesn't appear to have been an option.  But its an oversight, no doubt.  

Well, since George never told us who the Ape Prince was I say this guy was it. And if Axell's story is true he would have to have been lived at least to middle age considering that he had a son of his own who died and who was then replaced by that ape.

There is a hint in TRP that this guy was around at least during the early years of Viserys I because Gyldayn states that Daemon was Rhaenyra's favorite uncle. I imagine he was one of those more embarrassing Targaryens who were quite mad/deranged and thus was mostly kept out of sight. Such a man could never have challenged Daemon, especially not if he was his younger brother.

[1000th Lord Commander]

I've always thought a good real world comparison for Maegor is a almost forgotten guy in history called Arthur of Brittany.

As the son of Richard I's younger brother Geoffery, Arthur is regarded as his uncles heir for most of Richards reign, but is passed over on Richards deathbed for his uncle John. Arthur vacillates between England and France for a bit, then rebels against John, and is imprisoned. Nothing further is known, although most people think John killed him off the ensure his seat on the throne.

Maegor is in a similar boat. As the nephew to the King's older brother, he has a strong claim to the throne, one that could challenge Aegon V or his sons. If Maegor marries and has sons, they could one day be as irritaiting as the Blackfyres, so I am of the opinion that someone a bit more ruthless than Aegon whould have killed him. Also remember that Aegon was trying to curtail the rights of the nobility, and Maegor could have been a useful rallying point against him

 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

My opinion is that Maegor will come up in some of the later Dunk and Egg novellas, and either GRRM doesn’t want to give away what happens to him, or isn’t quite certain himself, but knows he may want to give him a role in the future.

I sincerely doubt that his descendants will have much of a role to play in the main series. For me, one of the main barriers to believing the Blackfyre theories (despite them being very compelling) is that I’m not sold on the idea that a major plot twist in the main series could be so reliant on material from the novellas and AWOIAF. This is doubly true in the case of the Brightflames, who are even less prominent in both, and barely mention in the books (apart from Aerion’s death which is mentioned in passing several times.

[The Twinslayer]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 0:28 PM, estermonty python said:

The more I think about it, the more I think that GRRM may be keeping Maegor on the bench to reappear in a Dunk and Egg novella, either as part of a rebellion or as part of Summerhall.  Considering he's been mentioned somewhere between zero and one time in the ASOIAF series, there's just no way he's important to the plot.  He's infinitely more likely to play a role in a Dunk & Egg narrative.   

Maegor has already served his purpose for the development of the plot. He was used in ACOK to set up the proximity vs. precedence problem that GRRM discussed in his SSM on the Hornwood inheritance.  Basically, the question is this:  if the crown prince dies leaving behind a son and a younger brother, who is next in line for the throne?  The king now has a grandson (by his oldest son) and a surviving son.  The grandson has precedence but the son has proximity. 

In most modern European monarchies, precedence prevails and the grandson gets it.  But in medieval times, proximity often prevailed, especially where the grandson was too young to rule.  A good example occurred in England in 1199 when Richard the Lionheart died.  His potential heirs were his nephew, Arthur (son of a dead brother) and John, Richard's surviving younger brother.  So Arthur was a king's grandson and John was that same king's son.  John took the throne and later became the first king to sign the Magna Carta.

I think GRRM included Maegor in the story as a clue to the Targaryen succession after Aerys.  When Aerys died, he was thought to have two male heirs:  Aegon (his grandson by Rhaegar) and Viserys (his surviving younger son).  Under the precedent set when Egg prevailed over Maegor, Viserys had a stronger claim than Aegon.  And indeed, TWOIAF has now confirmed that when Rhaegar died, Viserys was the "new heir." 

This will matter, of course, when Dany meets Aegon.  Aegon will claim the throne as the heir to Aerys through Rhaegar.  Dany will claim the throne as the heir to Viserys because Viserys came before Aegon in the line of succession and because he named her Princess of Dragonstone. 

[Ser Joe of Generic Hall]

European monarchies typically chose the oldest of remaining heirs.  This is why Henry VII surpassed Edward of Warwick, despite Warwick having a better claim.  Maegor was most likely passed over because he was such a young child.  

What is more interesting is the lack of accountability regarding Daeron's daughter, Vaella, and Aegon's sisters, Daella and Rhae (both of whom definitely married and had children). What if Maegor married one or more of these unaccounted for females and producced heirs?

[Shuvuuia]

13 minutes ago, Ser Joe of Generic Hall said:

What is more interesting is the lack of accountability regarding Daeron's daughter, Vaella, and Aegon's sisters, Daella and Rhae (both of whom definitely married and had children). What if Maegor married one or more of these unaccounted for females and producced heirs?

they all would be too old for him, maybe he could have married their daughters. and would Egg even allow it, seems like it could give Maegor's line potentially dangerous ammount of power or additional support in the future.

[estermonty python]

17 hours ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

I've always thought a good real world comparison for Maegor is a almost forgotten guy in history called Arthur of Brittany.

As the son of Richard I's younger brother Geoffery, Arthur is regarded as his uncles heir for most of Richards reign, but is passed over on Richards deathbed for his uncle John. Arthur vacillates between England and France for a bit, then rebels against John, and is imprisoned. Nothing further is known, although most people think John killed him off the ensure his seat on the throne.

Maegor is in a similar boat. As the nephew to the King's older brother, he has a strong claim to the throne, one that could challenge Aegon V or his sons. If Maegor marries and has sons, they could one day be as irritaiting as the Blackfyres, so I am of the opinion that someone a bit more ruthless than Aegon whould have killed him. Also remember that Aegon was trying to curtail the rights of the nobility, and Maegor could have been a useful rallying point against him

Sounds like you're advocating for Maegor to play a role in a rebellion during the reign of Aegon V, which would explain why his future is so murky in the world book.

3 hours ago, The Twinslayer said:

Maegor has already served his purpose for the development of the plot. He was used in ACOK to set up the proximity vs. precedence problem that GRRM discussed in his SSM on the Hornwood inheritance.  Basically, the question is this:  if the crown prince dies leaving behind a son and a younger brother, who is next in line for the throne?  The king now has a grandson (by his oldest son) and a surviving son.  The grandson has precedence but the son has proximity. 

In most modern European monarchies, precedence prevails and the grandson gets it.  But in medieval times, proximity often prevailed, especially where the grandson was too young to rule.  A good example occurred in England in 1199 when Richard the Lionheart died.  His potential heirs were his nephew, Arthur (son of a dead brother) and John, Richard's surviving younger brother.  So Arthur was a king's grandson and John was that same king's son.  John took the throne and later became the first king to sign the Magna Carta.

I think GRRM included Maegor in the story as a clue to the Targaryen succession after Aerys.  When Aerys died, he was thought to have two male heirs:  Aegon (his grandson by Rhaegar) and Viserys (his surviving younger son).  Under the precedent set when Egg prevailed over Maegor, Viserys had a stronger claim than Aegon.  And indeed, TWOIAF has now confirmed that when Rhaegar died, Viserys was the "new heir." 

This will matter, of course, when Dany meets Aegon.  Aegon will claim the throne as the heir to Aerys through Rhaegar.  Dany will claim the throne as the heir to Viserys because Viserys came before Aegon in the line of succession and because he named her Princess of Dragonstone. 

Another Arthur of Brittany reference!  The difference, though, is that at least part of the reason Maegor lost was the madness of his father, whereas Arthur's loss came about once Phillip of France (who had supported Arthur) made a deal with John.  There are plenty of other examples in GRRM's Targ history where extremely capable brothers yield to young sons, most notably Viserys II serving as Hand to his brother Aegon III, then both of his nephews, Daeron I and Baelor I, before finally inheriting the throne himself.  Granted, neither Daeron nor Baelor were infants, but I'd argue the GRRM's point is NOT "who has the better claim."  His point is a nuanced support of the traditional "might makes right" thesis: whoever has the support - military, religious, financial - has the power, and the "claim" is retrofitted after the fact.  Thus it really makes no difference what the merits of the claims are between Faegon and Dany - a million other factors will determine whose claim controls.

As a side note, since its come up here, the parallels between Aegon V and King John are fascinating.  Not only do you have the whole "takes the throne ahead of his older brother's infant son" thing, but Aegon and John were reform-minded and probably the most unpopular kings with their lords and nobles of their respective family dynasties.  This is particularly interesting since King John has survived in popular culture mostly as a villain in the Robin Hood stories, whereas Aegon V is nothing but heroic in GRRM's world - and in contrast, the Kingswood Brotherhood is viewed uncharitably and as antagonists to members of the Kingsguard we are supposed to like: Barristan Selmy, Gerold Hightower, Arthur Dayne, etc.  It's basically GRRM giving the whole "from a certain point of view" Star Wars speech - but, you know, actually good. 

1 hour ago, Ser Joe of Generic Hall said:

European monarchies typically chose the oldest of remaining heirs.  This is why Henry VII surpassed Edward of Warwick, despite Warwick having a better claim.  Maegor was most likely passed over because he was such a young child.  

There's no "most likely" about it.  First, Maekar died without explicitly naming an heir, so the monarchy itself didn't choose Aegon V, a Great Council did.  Second, GRRM wrote about this fairly extensively; while Maegor's youth certainly played a factor, his cruel, insane father had just as much if not more to do with Maegor being passed over.

[Lord Varys]

11 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I sincerely doubt that his descendants will have much of a role to play in the main series. For me, one of the main barriers to believing the Blackfyre theories (despite them being very compelling) is that I’m not sold on the idea that a major plot twist in the main series could be so reliant on material from the novellas and AWOIAF. This is doubly true in the case of the Brightflames, who are even less prominent in both, and barely mention in the books (apart from Aerion’s death which is mentioned in passing several times.

The Blackfyres are actually mentioned more than just in passing in the main series, at least since ASoS when Daemon Blackfyre was first mentioned. And the Dunk & Egg stories are an integral part of the main series, at least since ADwD when Bloodraven was revealed to be the three-eyed crow - a fact you can only understand/appreciate if you have read the novellas.

I remember urging pretty much anyone I knew to read Dunk & Egg first before they pick up ADwD to actually be able recognize Bloodraven as soon as the man is described in the second Bran chapter.

AFfC and ADwD also introduce the Golden Company and the fact that House Blackfyre is only extinct in the male line. There certainly is more than enough reason to expect them playing a role.

Prince Maegor clearly is less relevant since he never even mentioned by name nor comes ever up in conversation or thought aside from the one discussion of the Great Council.

@The Twinslayer

I assume you mean primogeniture vs. proximity, yes?

One can add that in case of the Targaryen succession we should keep in mind that Aerys II is the important person there. He was the last universally acknowledged Targaryen king on the Iron Throne. Viserys III was his chosen heir and Dany is Viserys III's sister and Aerys II's daughter. She is thus much closer related to Aerys II and Viserys III as any child of Rhaegar's would be.

That certainly should play a role in the coming deliberations. But then, I don't think Maegor was introduced to actually introduce this problem. That only came with TWoIaF and the first struggle between these two legal principles in 101 AC where proximity also won the day (as it later did in 233 AC, and again when Aerys II named Viserys III his heir, and not Prince Aegon).

However, we don't even have to assume that Dany is going to style herself as her brother's acknowledged and anointed heiress. She could also just claim that proximity favors her claim as her father's daughter with the very same father once dismissing Aegon's claim back in 283 AC.

In general, if Maegor played a role in one of those rebellions he could have married Celia Tully in Jaehaerys' stead. If we assume that Maegor (and his mother) remained at court then it is rather odd that Aegon V did apparently not try to salvage things by marrying Maegor to one of the women his children spurned. The Baratheon girl most likely was too old for such a match, and we already know whom Luthor and Olenna married. But Celia Tully's fate is unknown.

[Ser Joe of Generic Hall]

On 12/13/2016 at 2:50 PM, Shuvuuia said:

they all would be too old for him, maybe he could have married their daughters. and would Egg even allow it, seems like it could give Maegor's line potentially dangerous ammount of power or additional support in the future.

Vaella would be a decade older than Maegor, and therefore not too old. Daella and Rhae's children would also be his age and would not be too old.

Daemon Targaryen was over a decade older than Rhaenyra (almost 20 years) and he produced 2 kings of westeros.

[SFDanny]

On 12/9/2016 at 10:44 AM, Isobel Harper said:

Aerion’s mother was Dyanna Dayne, making Maegor 1/4 Dayne.  It's possible that Maegor had a daughter, who later married into House Dayne, otherwise Darkstar would still have the Targaryen name. 

Which would give him the best Targaryen claim to the throne. At least from his stand point. Might be why Prince Doran calls him the "most dangerous man in Dorne"? I've thought so for a long time anyway. It's all about who Ser Gerold is, not how dangerous he is in a fight.

[Lost Melnibonean]

16 minutes ago, SFDanny said:

Which would give him the best Targaryen claim to the throne. At least from his stand point. Might be why Prince Doran calls him the "most dangerous man in Dorne"? I've thought so for a long time anyway. It's all about who Ser Gerold is, not how dangerous he is in a fight.

Yeah, man! Now we are talking! Darkstar is a Brightflame. 

[SFDanny]

26 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yeah, man! Now we are talking! Darkstar is a Brightflame. 

Great minds think a like! I think my old threads are lost in the great site purge, but I'll try to see if any thing is left.

[Shuvuuia]

20 hours ago, Ser Joe of Generic Hall said:

Vaella would be a decade older than Maegor, and therefore not too old. Daella and Rhae's children would also be his age and would not be too old.

Daemon Targaryen was over a decade older than Rhaenyra (almost 20 years) and he produced 2 kings of westeros.

Ah, i though you meant Daella and Rhae themselves, lol. About Vaella - if when they were grown-ups, then maybe, betrothed as children/teenagers - not likely. 

[SFDanny]

15 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Yeah, man! Now we are talking! Darkstar is a Brightflame. 

I should add, that way back when I was making threads about this idea (six or seven years ago) I had, through not fault of my own, some ideas about this that have been proven wrong. In addition to the imagery surrounding and the description of the Darkstar, I had the idea that the Targaryen that Queen of Thrones spurned was none other than Maegor himself. That was largely dependent on the few Targaryens of that generation who could be eligible to marry Lady Olenna. Since that time, Martin added another son for Egg and explained how this third son - Prince Daeron - was the one who was engaged to marry Olenna Redwyne and he chose his lover, Ser Jeremy Norridge, over his betrothed (TWoI&F 109.) This new information shot down part of what I thought was a strong argument about Maegor eventually being married into a loyalist house so the Targaryens could keep an eye on him. Little did I know that Martin would also fill in the Targaryen family tree to show Aemon's, Egg's, and Aerion's mother to be a Dayne. This new information certainly strengthens the case both you and I have advanced for Maegor being married into the Dayne family himself and Ser Gerold to be Maegor's grandchild.

[estermonty python]

23 minutes ago, SFDanny said:

I should add, that way back when I was making threads about this idea (six or seven years ago) I had, through not fault of my own, some ideas about this that have been proven wrong. In addition to the imagery surrounding and the description of the Darkstar, I had the idea that the Targaryen that Queen of Thrones spurned was none other than Maegor himself. That was largely dependent on the few Targaryens of that generation who could be eligible to marry Lady Olenna. Since that time, Martin added another son for Egg and explained how this third son - Prince Daeron - was the one who was engaged to marry Olenna Redwyne and he chose his lover, Ser Jeremy Norridge, over his betrothed (TWoI&F 109.) This new information shot down part of what I thought was a strong argument about Maegor eventually being married into a loyalist house so the Targaryens could keep an eye on him. Little did I know that Martin would also fill in the Targaryen family tree to show Aemon's, Egg's, and Aerion's mother to be a Dayne. This new information certainly strengthens the case both you and I have advanced for Maegor being married into the Dayne family himself and Ser Gerold to be Maegor's grandchild.

I think at least part of the appeal of the Blackfyres was xenophobic in nature.  Some of the Targs (like Baelor Breakspear) were coming out looking Dornish, because of the intermarriage, which made the pureblooded Blackfyres more appealing.  That would have made the Dornish natural and enduring enemies of the Blackfyres, which would make Dorne perhaps the safest region for Aegon V to foster a Targaryen princeling who could potentially challenge his claim to the throne.  

I'm not sure if this is related or not, but keeping a Targaryen prince in Dorne could also be one possible explanation for how the hell a Dornishman ended up on the Wall - and as Lord Commander.  in the 36 years between Lord Commander Bloodraven and Lord Commander Mormont, we don't know if Lord Commander Qorgyle served for all or merely part of that time, but it seems likely that his presence on the Wall probably had something to do with Bloodraven and Maester Aemon going to the Wall themselves.  It may be that Dorne sent someone to look after and protect Aemon.

On the other hand, Aemon mentions to Jon his correspondence with his great grandnewphew (is that even a word?) Rhaegar; why wouldn't he have had any correspondence with his actual nephew, Maegor, and his children and grandchildren as well?  

I guess the bottom line is, the Daynes - all of them - are a hell of an enigma.