Oathkeeper or False Friend?

[Seams]

4 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

To go in the same way, we can also recall that Brienne and Jaime fought in Riverlands (ASOS) but were interrupted by the Bloody Mummers. 

This time, without his right hand, Jaime has no chance against Brienne. Last year, I also was thinking he could be resurrected by Thoros, and we would have a zombie-Jaime (with a POV ?). I think that's make a lot of zombies in the story, but why not ? After, I thought to another option : Jaime could loose his eyes, and form with Brienne a special couple who might (re)play Symeon Star-Eyed (the blind knight with sapphire in place of his eyes). Brienne would be Jaime's right hand and eyes. A manner to link them tragically.

(perhaps Jeyne Heddle is playing Sansa's part, and Lem Hunter's).

This is brilliant. I bet you're right. And Jaime would not be put off by the chunks bitten out of Brienne's face or her general appearance when the time comes for them to finally consummate their relationship.

There is a set of links connecting Catelyn, Sansa, Arya and Brienne, and I would not be surprised at all if Arya's period of blindness becomes a part of Brienne's / Jaime's story. I know that Brienne is symbolically linked to the Blue Bard, currently being tortured by Qyburn and Cersei, and the Blue Bard has lost an eye.

I think Jaime may have become skilled at using his left hand for sword fighting, through his training with Ser Ilyn Payne. So he will put up a good fight in the single combat.

I agree that Jeyne Heddle stands in for Sansa (and Willow stands in for Arya) among the Brotherhood Without Banners. Her symbolic role may be only literary, though, not something that would fool Jaime. If she watches the single combat, she will probably react in ways that Sansa reacted at the Hand's Tourney or at Joffrey's Nameday Tourney.

There may be clues for the Brienne/Jaime arc in the Penny/Tyrion arc. Penny teaches Tyrion to joust, "making him a knight." (And thereby fulfilling Joffrey's dying wish, which was that Tyrion should ride the pig.) There are repainted shields and a dog (The Hound?) in Penny's story, as well. Jaime has a dream on a weirwood stump; Tyrion feeds acorns to a pig. Brienne and Jaime had to fight a bear; Tyrion and Penny were almost eaten by lions.

Since Vargo Hoat and Penny's brother, Groat, are symbolically linked, it is interesting that the Bloody Mummers interrupted Brienne and Jaime's earlier duel, and cut off Jaime's hand. In the parallel story, Groat, who was a mummer, lost his head (to Tyrion's sister). Tyrion is then reborn as Groat when he takes that role in the dwarf jousting act. Maybe you (and others) can help to think about what the two different amputations (Jaime's arm and Groat's head) might mean for the future of Jaime and Tyrion and Brienne and Penny.

Here's another odd set of links: Brienne is using a "morningstar" when she is introduced to the reader, fighting in a melee that Renly's camp has organized. This links her to Ser Dontos, who uses a melon as a morningstar on Sansa's head in an attempt to deflect Joffrey's determination to hurt Sansa before the court. In Penny and Groat's jousting act at Joffrey's wedding reception, a melon inside a helmet is used for a fake "beheading" moment in the action. The melon lands in the lap of - I believe? - Ser Balman Byrch, husband of Falyse Stokeworth, who will die in single combat with Bronn. This may complete this symbolic chain, giving us foreshadowing of a person killed by "Brienne" (if the guess is correct pairing Bronn in the single combat trial for Tyrion at the Eyrie with the upcoming single combat trial featuring Brienne against Jaime.)

Except the chain may have one more link: How much you wanna bet that the morningstar is also foreshadowing of the sword of the morning and/or Dawn?

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

Except the chain may have one more link: How much you wanna bet that the morningstar is also foreshadowing of the sword of the morning and/or Dawn?

@The Weirwoods Eyes has some extremely interesting ideas about possible (and likely imo) links between Brienne, Tarth, Ser Galladon of Morne, The Sword of the Morning, Starfall, etc.

You can find some of it here if you want, or maybe she'll finally start a thread for it! 

ooops, link thingy not working: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/144510-for-a-thousand-years-or-more-what/

 

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

8 hours ago, GloubieBoulga said:

After, I thought to another option : Jaime could loose his eyes, and form with Brienne a special couple who might (re)play Symeon Star-Eyed (the blind knight with saphir in place of his eyes). Brienne would be Jaime's right hand and eyes. A manner to link them tragically. 

This is really cool and made me think of a Cersei quote to Sansa:

Quote

"True knights would never harm women and children." The words rang hollow in her ears even as she said them.
"True knights." The queen seemed to find that wonderfully amusing. "No doubt you're right. So why don't you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight to come rescue you, sweetling. I'm sure it won't be very long now."

If you gender-bent Aemon the Dragonknight, there's loose parallels to Brienne with being a "true knight," being a kingsguard (for Renly), and the "doomed love" theme (for Renly, and maybe also for Jaime?).      

[foxberlin]

As I read it, Brienne isn't be able to speak about their cause honestly in front of Jaime's camp and in possible hearing range for members of the BWB - even if anything of it would be true. Still, it seems as if she hasn't even put thought into a plausible sounding lie for that dire matter. It is Jaime's idea that she might have found Sansa already. And when Brienne comes up with the Hound, it is very likely that Jaime had already gained knowledge of his death. Somewhat unlikely is that a Lord Commander would leave his men during a siege just to see some girl somewhere. Methinks Brienne never intended to lie to Jaime, but wants him to understand her failure through her queer words so he can finish his cause in her stead. Brienne truely intended to return to LSH unsuccessful, ready to die because of that. She appears to look ten years older since she considers this to be her goodbye to Jaime, whose life she had chosen over that of innocent Pod. She would then try to kill LSH as a last deed, but is in a poor condition for that.

Only thing her obvious lie didn't put Jaime off her, but made him wanting to save her from whatever made her lie to him. So there is the problem. Since it is Brienne's task to "slay the Kingslayer", LSH doesn't expect Brienne to deliver her Jaime alive. Just a proof of his death spares Briennes life. Should only Jaime show up with no sign of Brienne anywhere, this would spoil the game for LSH quite a bit. Under LSH the BWB lost their focus almost completely, so surely a real Lord Commander would be healthy change? The father of fake Baratheon bastards Jaime could help the real Baratheon bastard Gendry win back the throne. All it needs would be hiding and striking in the right moments on Brienne's behalf.

[kissdbyfire]

@Fox Berlin, Gendry was never king to win back the throne though. And he isn't Robert's heir, Stannis is. And if a bastard by Robert were to become his heir, Edric Storm would be a much better candidate in any case. 

Maybe Gendry will be involved with other things, like forging weapons for the fight against the WW, since Tobho Mott is one of few who can work VS. 

[foxberlin]

@ kissdbyfire, why do you think Edric Storm has a stronger claim to the throne than his bastard brother Gendry Waters? Of course, until now there is only Stannis who has a reasonable claim and after him Shireen.

It just strikes me that last time Jaime and Brienne saw each other, Jaime said something along the lines "I made and unmade kings". Plural. Fully provided with a note from Tommen, Brienne is set up on her quest, whereas Jaime broods over the White Book, musing to fill the empty space there with whatever he choose. I think this might be what he has to choose: The rightful bastard over his own bastards to rule, especially after orders were given to kill all of Robert's children. Gendry didn't know about his identity until Brienne started to confront him with it. Like another version of a beggar prince, he was all along in Kings Landing. Unknowingly Tommen had already signed a note to save his supposed brother's killer, Sansa, and another note could legitimate Robert's bastard over Stannis. Jaimes bad handwriting without right hand when he writes about Brienne in the White Book resembles Tommen's unsuspected powers IMO. But would Jaime endanger the lives of his two remaining children as an inversion of Tywin, who had two Targaryen children killed to better his own families chances? I don't know. But here is a perfect set up with Genry among the BWB, bound to King Robert until LSH came. With Oathkeeper even Ned would be present, who found Gendry in the first place. Jaime would have a chance to unmade the wrong king Tommen. He learned from Robert that a good knight makes no good king. Jaime would never support Stannis' claim. Brienne wouldn't.

[kissdbyfire]

@Fox Berlin, I don't think either one has any claim,  tbh. But if a bastard by Robert were to be considered, I think Edric would be the most likely choice. After all, his mother is a Florent, he was acknowledged by Robert and fostered by Renly in SE under the guardianship of Penrose. But I don't see it happening, not with Gendry and not with Edric. 

ps: that was not the last time Jaime saw Brienne, the scene you've mentioned happened in ASoS!

[sweetsunray]

On 24-1-2017 at 10:42 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

who LSH doesn't realize is actually fake, yet

And @Curled Finger

LSH knows fArya is fake. The talk about fArya was already around in the RL by the Mountain's men in aSoS. And yet Sandor was still seen with a little "boy", fighting at the Inn and beyond in the direction of Saltpans. She hung raiders of Saltpans and she had Mountain's men pestered too. And the Heddles would have had the info from the whores that were at the Crossroads Inn at the time of the fight. LS has all the puzzle pieces to know the real Arya was still with Sandor after the RW, at the same time a fake Arya was already sent North (by way of the kingsroad in the RL besides) to wed Ramsay Bolton. She knows one can't be the other.   

LS sets up an orphanage basically at the Crossroads Inn and has it guarded by Lem, while putting Gendry to work there to monitor any child brought in by sparrows or visitors that might be BwB prey. Gendry's the one who'd recognize her the most likely (with her own face). The Crossroads Inn is where Arya and Sandor fought the Tickler. All circumstantial evidence shows that LS knows Arya went as far as Saltpans and has gone off the map afterwards, and that she hopes Arya will be found by some lucky sparrow who brings her to the Crossroads Inn.

[sweetsunray]

As for the OP, I think Brienne's doing what the BwB wants her to do for Pod in the last chapter of aDwD, fears the worst and hopes she can improvize some solution, or plead for Jaime. The problem is that LS knows via Ryman Frey that Jaime has led the siege against RR, against the Blackfish, and that RR is now in Frey hands. Ryman was away already when Jaime came up with his "trebuchet" threat, but George put it in there for Jaime to break his vow to Cat (even Jaime feels he did). 

His doom-dream on the weirwood stump suggest to me that he certainly will face LS. So, whatever Brienne tries, Jaime and LS are certain to meet imo. And the way Jaime's arc has been going, I think he will consider himself doomed. It will have another impact on him than it had on Brienne.

A trial by combat is a possible scenario, and seems very much expected by many: Jaime versus Brienne, Jaime versus Lem, Brienne versus Lem?

I don't see LS die though as a result of this confrontation. At the very least she'll show up at RR imo for the RW2.0. I can see her die a second time without ever having seen any of her daughters found, but not over the Brienne-Jaime confrontation, and any dicontentment within the BwB is solely Thoros's melancholy, who over romanticizes Beric.

Anyhow, I think LS shows a cunning machiavelism, and she may end up surprising us when it comes to Jaime.

[Cridefea]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

As for the OP, I think Brienne's doing what the BwB wants her to do for Pod in the last chapter of aDwD, fears the worst and hopes she can improvize some solution, or plead for Jaime. The problem is that LS knows via Ryman Frey that Jaime has led the siege against RR, against the Blackfish, and that RR is now in Frey hands. Ryman was away already when Jaime came up with his "trebuchet" threat, but George put it in there for Jaime to break his vow to Cat (even Jaime feels he did). 

His doom-dream on the weirwood stump suggest to me that he certainly will face LS. So, whatever Brienne tries, Jaime and LS are certain to meet imo. And the way Jaime's arc has been going, I think he will consider himself doomed. It will have another impact on him than it had on Brienne.

A trial by combat is a possible scenario, and seems very much expected by many: Jaime versus Brienne, Jaime versus Lem, Brienne versus Lem?

I don't see LS die though as a result of this confrontation. At the very least she'll show up at RR imo for the RW2.0. I can see her die a second time without ever having seen any of her daughters found, but not over the Brienne-Jaime confrontation, and any dicontentment within the BwB is solely Thoros's melancholy, who over romanticizes Beric.

Anyhow, I think LS shows a cunning machiavelism, and she may end up surprising us when it comes to Jaime.

I agree, except that I think Brienne or Jaime will kill LS. At this time or later.

As for the dream, yes there are many similarities, being questioned about vows and oaths, the description of the caves, the being naked/feeling naked, even Brienne's words in the dream have different meanings if you read them after AFfC.

Sorry I'm a bit in a hurry and I can't explain it in a better way and in a better english 

[Curled Finger]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And @Curled Finger

LSH knows fArya is fake. The talk about fArya was already around in the RL by the Mountain's men in aSoS. And yet Sandor was still seen with a little "boy", fighting at the Inn and beyond in the direction of Saltpans. She hung raiders of Saltpans and she had Mountain's men pestered too. And the Heddles would have had the info from the whores that were at the Crossroads Inn at the time of the fight. LS has all the puzzle pieces to know the real Arya was still with Sandor after the RW, at the same time a fake Arya was already sent North (by way of the kingsroad in the RL besides) to wed Ramsay Bolton. She knows one can't be the other.   

LS sets up an orphanage basically at the Crossroads Inn and has it guarded by Lem, while putting Gendry to work there to monitor any child brought in by sparrows or visitors that might be BwB prey. Gendry's the one who'd recognize her the most likely (with her own face). The Crossroads Inn is where Arya and Sandor fought the Tickler. All circumstantial evidence shows that LS knows Arya went as far as Saltpans and has gone off the map afterwards, and that she hopes Arya will be found by some lucky sparrow who brings her to the Crossroads Inn.

You make a good argument for LSH possibly knowing or suspecting Arya isn't in the North.   At this point we are all speculating.   Admittedly, I have a dim view of LSH's ability to discern anything beyond her burning need for revenge.  I thought her immediate condemnation of Brienne to be small-minded, nearly automatic.  This is where my own ideas about her stem from.   I don't think she's capable of anything beyond that single driving thought: revenge.   

I know it's a fan favorite to credit LSH with setting up an orphanage.  Still, this goes against the grain of LSH's mindset in my opinion.  I think it's more likely Beric, Elder Brother, Jeyne or even Gendry thought far enough ahead to put something like this together for Arya or simply all the children left orphaned.  As I see it LSH would make use of all the information she could gather to pursue either of the children she believes to be alive.   

". . . till you stand before m'lady." Renly stood behind the girl, pushing his black hair out of his eyes. Not Renly. Gendry. "M'lady means for you to answer for your crimes."  Brienne 8 AFFC

Even Gendry who fought with Brienne and had the opportunity to hear at least a part of her story knows LSH is going to at the very least hurt her.  There will be no defense nor explanation for Brienne's failure to find the Stark girls.   It seems everyone knows that LSH is a hard ass.  

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Cridefea said:

I agree, except that I think Brienne or Jaime will kill LS. At this time or later.

As for the dream, yes there are many similarities, being questioned about vows and oaths, the description of the caves, the being naked/feeling naked, even Brienne's words in the dream have different meanings if you read them after AFfC.

Sorry I'm a bit in a hurry and I can't explain it in a better way and in a better english 

The reason I can't see her die at the hands of either Brienne or Jaime at the meeting time or within days after it is because of the recirculation concept that is so heavily tied to LS. All the Stark dynastic symbols recirculate back into her hands: part of her husband's sword, Robb's crown, she knows his will, and then it seems that she manages to acquire Tywin's son who's being reminded by ghosts to guard the children. So, I'm inclined to think that Jaime surprisingly ends up in LS's service. Even if LS dies, she won't die before Jaime solves the dynastic Stark puzzle.

[sweetsunray]

34 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Admittedly, I have a dim view of LSH's ability to discern anything beyond her burning need for revenge.  I thought her immediate condemnation of Brienne to be small-minded, nearly automatic.  This is where my own ideas about her stem from.   I don't think she's capable of anything beyond that single driving thought: revenge.   

I know it's a fan favorite to credit LSH with setting up an orphanage.

Actually: most readers have a dim view of LS's ability to see beyond revenge. And most readers have not even considered that the orphanage was set up as a means of hope to get Arya back and found. Which I understand, because George has purposefully manipulated readers into thinking of LS as some deranged spectre who only thinks of cruel revenge, by opting for POVs of victims to reveal her (Merret and Brienne) and Thoros's comments to Brienne.

It does not really matter whose idea it was. But LS wouldn't allow energy spent on it, if it was not without her agreement. She was resurrected before Sandor and Arya had their fight at the Crossroads Inn. And the Crossroads Inn became an orphanage after that fight, and thus after Beric's death and LS's resurrection. It's more than speculation than LS ok-ing and aiding the Crossroads Inn as an orphanage. And the BwB interrogate Merret Frey about Arya, showing they're still searching for her. Who was there to point the figner at Merret? LS.

LS's condemnation of Brienne is neither small-minded, nor automatic. The crown in LS's hands and her having been at Fairmarket where Ryman Frey was hanged reveals that LS was personally present when Ryman was hanged and heard whatever he and his escort said. They would have all revealed that Jaime Lannister leads the siege against RR and made plans to attack it. She has already heard the phrase of "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" said by the Bolton soldier who killed Robb. Bloody Mummers who fled Harrenhal and left Vargo Hoat all by himself to face the Mountain have been hanged by the BwB and LS, and no doubt were interrogated. All would have attested that Jaime and Brienne had been captured by them and taken to HH, and that Roose released Jaime with Bolton escort, including how Jaime saved Brienne from the bear. Whatever Brienne says in Jaime's defence at this point only verifies what she can already know, but in the wrong way. And what she sees, just as anybody else does, is that she's in love and blinded or deceived by it. LS has very good reasons to mistrust Jaime and therefore Brienne's naive opinion of him.

What would Brienne say of Jaime if she learns that he led the siege of RR, kept Edmure as a prisoner and had the BF surrender RR and Robb's queen? What would Brienne think of Jaime if she learns that he knew enough about Roose's betrayal and that Robb died with Jaime's regards? Even Jaime admits to himself that once he threatened Edmure to send his coming child across the castle walls with a Trebuchet he broke the last semblance of keeping his vow to Cat.

And as it turned out, LS was not just going to merely hang Brienne, but gave her a chance to live.

What were Catelyn's last thoughts? On her children, all her sweetlings dead. Her last thoughts were addressed to Ned. Revenge, pain and her family those were Cat's last thoughts.

[Curled Finger]

25 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Actually: most readers have a dim view of LS's ability to see beyond revenge. And most readers have not even considered that the orphanage was set up as a means of hope to get Arya back and found. Which I understand, because George has purposefully manipulated readers into thinking of LS as some deranged spectre who only thinks of cruel revenge, by opting for POVs of victims to reveal her (Merret and Brienne) and Thoros's comments to Brienne.

It does not really matter whose idea it was. But LS wouldn't allow energy spent on it, if it was not without her agreement. She was resurrected before Sandor and Arya had their fight at the Crossroads Inn. And the Crossroads Inn became an orphanage after that fight, and thus after Beric's death and LS's resurrection. It's more than speculation than LS ok-ing and aiding the Crossroads Inn as an orphanage. And the BwB interrogate Merret Frey about Arya, showing they're still searching for her. Who was there to point the figner at Merret? LS.

LS's condemnation of Brienne is neither small-minded, nor automatic. The crown in LS's hands and her having been at Fairmarket where Ryman Frey was hanged reveals that LS was personally present when Ryman was hanged and heard whatever he and his escort said. They would have all revealed that Jaime Lannister leads the siege against RR and made plans to attack it. She has already heard the phrase of "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" said by the Bolton soldier who killed Robb. Bloody Mummers who fled Harrenhal and left Vargo Hoat all by himself to face the Mountain have been hanged by the BwB and LS, and no doubt were interrogated. All would have attested that Jaime and Brienne had been captured by them and taken to HH, and that Roose released Jaime with Bolton escort, including how Jaime saved Brienne from the bear. Whatever Brienne says in Jaime's defence at this point only verifies what she can already know, but in the wrong way. And what she sees, just as anybody else does, is that she's in love and blinded or deceived by it. LS has very good reasons to mistrust Jaime and therefore Brienne's naive opinion of him.

What would Brienne say of Jaime if she learns that he led the siege of RR, kept Edmure as a prisoner and had the BF surrender RR and Robb's queen? What would Brienne think of Jaime if she learns that he knew enough about Roose's betrayal and that Robb died with Jaime's regards? Even Jaime admits to himself that once he threatened Edmure to send his coming child across the castle walls with a Trebuchet he broke the last semblance of keeping his vow to Cat.

And as it turned out, LS was not just going to merely hang Brienne, but gave her a chance to live.

What were Catelyn's last thoughts? On her children, all her sweetlings dead. Her last thoughts were addressed to Ned. Revenge, pain and her family those were Cat's last thoughts.

 You give her a lot of credit and there is no doubt she wants Jamie Lannister.  It wouldn't be a bad thing to be surprised by LSH.   I hope she is more cognizant than I am able to determine.  If LSH is capable of thought beyond mere revenge do you think she will be able to listen to Jamie or Brienne with any semblance of fairness?   She did string up Pod, a little boy in Brienne's company up, after all.   Do you think it's possible she may have exercised some mercy for him?    I do find it odd that one of LSH's other nick names is "Mother Mercy".   I thought it was a bit of sarcasm on behalf of the BWB.   

[sweetsunray]

9 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

She did string up Pod, a little boy in Brienne's company up, after all.

To manipulate Brienne.

It's not because she has difficulty to speak that she's devoid of intelligence. Is that not the easiest mistake made?

 

9 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

 I do find it odd that one of LSH's other nick names is "Mother Mercy".

It's Mother Merciless actually.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

The reason I can't see her die at the hands of either Brienne or Jaime at the meeting time or within days after it is because of the recirculation concept that is so heavily tied to LS. All the Stark dynastic symbols recirculate back into her hands: part of her husband's sword, Robb's crown, she knows his will, and then it seems that she manages to acquire Tywin's son who's being reminded by ghosts to guard the children. So, I'm inclined to think that Jaime surprisingly ends up in LS's service. Even if LS dies, she won't die before Jaime solves the dynastic Stark puzzle.

Do you think it is possible Jaime could be killed and she could give him the kiss of life? 

[Curled Finger]

5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

To manipulate Brienne.

It's not because she has difficulty to speak that she's devoid of intelligence. Is that not the easiest mistake made?

 

It's Mother Merciless actually.

HA!~ That was probably my wishful thinking coming through.   

To the speech...I know a person with a rather pronounced speech impediment.  It doesn't make him stupid, just hard to decipher.  If only he had a North Man to interpret!  LSH's ability to pull off ambushes and extract confessions is a testament to intelligence.   It's not her speech that troubles me.  It is the single-mindedness with which she executes (lame pun intended) her plans.  Truly, the capture and sequestering of Brienne, Hyle and Pod required a great deal of sophistication.  Still, we know Pod is one of Brienne's soft spots.  Anyone of us could be manipulated by our care of a child.  But full on hanging?  That's brutal.  I wonder why it wouldn't be as equally effective to merely threaten Pod--you know, knife at the throat or merely placing his head in a noose?  Was LSH confident this extreme is precisely what it would take to crack Brienne?  Was it really?  Did Pod or Hyle for that matter, survive?  Back to old threads for a minute, did Brienne really survive?   Sorry, couldn't resist.   

Thoros seems to be the only BWB member with a problem with LSH.   And it isn't even so much LSH as the change in mission statement.  The BWB is fractured or maybe splintered is a better word, into several groups.   It's odd that Thoros opts to stay with this group...or is it?  Does he know or suspect something about his new leader that runs deeper than his complaints appear to reflect?  

Sweetsunray, you know I'm not bashing your thoughts about LSH.  It's just difficult for me to see any potential good in her.   So it looks like I've bought into her PR.  Hanging a little boy is just over the top for any sentient being in my book.   

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Do you think it is possible Jaime could be killed and she could give him the kiss of life? 

I cannot rule that out. But he'd have to prove himself worthy of it.

[Curled Finger]

8 hours ago, Fox Berlin said:

@ kissdbyfire, why do you think Edric Storm has a stronger claim to the throne than his bastard brother Gendry Waters? Of course, until now there is only Stannis who has a reasonable claim and after him Shireen.

It just strikes me that last time Jaime and Brienne saw each other, Jaime said something along the lines "I made and unmade kings". Plural. Fully provided with a note from Tommen, Brienne is set up on her quest, whereas Jaime broods over the White Book, musing to fill the empty space there with whatever he choose. I think this might be what he has to choose: The rightful bastard over his own bastards to rule, especially after orders were given to kill all of Robert's children. Gendry didn't know about his identity until Brienne started to confront him with it. Like another version of a beggar prince, he was all along in Kings Landing. Unknowingly Tommen had already signed a note to save his supposed brother's killer, Sansa, and another note could legitimate Robert's bastard over Stannis. Jaimes bad handwriting without right hand when he writes about Brienne in the White Book resembles Tommen's unsuspected powers IMO. But would Jaime endanger the lives of his two remaining children as an inversion of Tywin, who had two Targaryen children killed to better his own families chances? I don't know. But here is a perfect set up with Genry among the BWB, bound to King Robert until LSH came. With Oathkeeper even Ned would be present, who found Gendry in the first place. Jaime would have a chance to unmade the wrong king Tommen. He learned from Robert that a good knight makes no good king. Jaime would never support Stannis' claim. Brienne wouldn't.

I'm not sure Gendry even has a last name.   I think the "Snows, Waters, Stones, Storms, etc" are reserved for acknowledged bastards.   As far as I know Edric and Mya are the only bastards Robert acknowledged.   For all it's worth.  

[sweetsunray]

21 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

 It is the single-mindedness with which she executes (lame pun intended) her plans.  Truly, the capture and sequestering of Brienne, Hyle and Pod required a great deal of sophistication.  Still, we know Pod is one of Brienne's soft spots.  Anyone of us could be manipulated by our care of a child.  But full on hanging?  That's brutal.

Well, yes it's brutal. Can you blame her? Catelyn freed Jaime from RR, rescued Brienne from certain death if she had been found near Renly's body, just like Robb let Theon go. She tried the reconciliation, reasonable giving path. And all it got her was a daughter forcibly married to Tyrion, Bran and Rickon murdered (in her mind) and Robb murdered while a guest, both their bodies defiled, and the benefactors, the couple who caused it all with their incestuous treason, shrugging it off and continuing as before. If anything, this resurrected woman has learned is to play the game as ruthless as possible, certainly when the odds are stacked against her. All she has is an army of outlaws. No Lannister, no Frey showed any mercy and refused negotiations or betrayed them - absolutely none. Why would she of all people in all of Westeros show understanding and mercy and give someone the benefit of the doubt? 

Podrick is Tyrion's squire, looking for Sansa, for his master's "wife". LS at the very least has reasons to prevent Pod and Brienne to look for Sansa any further: to protect Sansa from being found by people who may mean to drag her back to Cersei or Tyrion, given the objective evidence.

21 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

The BWB is fractured or maybe splintered is a better word, into several groups.

Is it? The organisation of the BwB has always been that of little bands spread across the RL, with someone pretending to be Beric. The BwB has always operated in cells. That's how Beric himself set it up. So, nothing is that different methinks. 

21 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Sweetsunray, you know I'm not bashing your thoughts about LSH.  It's just difficult for me to see any potential good in her.   So it looks like I've bought into her PR.  Hanging a little boy is just over the top for any sentient being in my book.  

I'll remind you of Brienne watching LS as she looks at Robb's crown. Her eyes are said to "glimmer". When do eyes "glimmer"? When they're brimming with watery tears. She also plays a bit with the crown, which is a sentimental gesture. LS is still sentient beyond anger and rage alone. To me it seems she feels grief and sentimental too, but she reserves those feelings for the dead sons, dead husband and the possible alive daughters.