Why did Illyrio give Dany the dragon eggs?

[Davjos]

@Frey family reunion a damn good catch with probably Moqorro being at that wedding. Still amazes me how many new things you find out about this series. I really, strongly, 99% surely doubt they even considered her hatching the eggs. 

@SFDanny An indirect gift is an interesting option. I doubt it would be Doran though, since he would support fAegon since he was his nephew. Unless he was in contact with Illyrio about Dany+Vyseris but wasn't aware of fAegon (perhaps because he can say he doesn't look like Aegon)

If the dragon eggs are of so little value to Illyrio, solely money, he could have given Dany some diamonds if he wants to give her some lightweight 'gold'. They shouldn't mean that much to the Dothraki since they don't seem the historical type. He has a reason to pick the dragon eggs and it is something along the lines of giving Dany some respect. That could have been very useful to prove the claim of a dead kid.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Doran told Arianne it made no difference who she was promised to because the cause of her betrothed death was a pot of molten gold. Do you have any ideas about how Doran came by that knowledge?

Wasn't that widely known? 

[Makk]

5 hours ago, Maxxine said:

I've always leaned toward option 3 when it come (f)aegon & Varys/Illyrio support not bc of the dragon eggs though. I think Illyrio is so rich the dragons eggs meant nothing to him. He can buy an army without them and he had no idea they would hatch. They were just something used to build trust and show off. 

But the whole Varys & Illyrio always supported faegon is complete bs to me. You're support someone but you would give his biggest threat to throne an army. How does that make sense? At the very least you kill Viserys & marry Dany to Aegon. 

I agree with this.

You could make the argument that Illyrio knew Viserys was not competent enough to get the army and Khal Drogo would be indebted to Illyrio instead. But it all seems a bit elaborate. This was right at the start of the story and I got the impression that George didn't flesh out the Blackfyre rebellion stuff for some time.

It's only a small inconsistency though, it doesn't really worry me.

[Maxxine]

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

He intended to keep Viserys close, and he apparently sent Jorah to keep tabs on the Targlings. 

Yeah but why? If Aegon is the plan then you kill the people who are the biggest threat to his claim, not give them an army. There's absolutely no reason to keep Viserys alive if Aegon is the plan. At the very least Varys & Illryrio were hitching their horse to two wagons.

 

3 hours ago, Cersei's Nachos said:

The best would be to kill Viserys, and instead of marrying Dany to Aegon, keep them both single for future alliances through marriage if needed. She's the last female Targ, Aegon's heir and beautiful surely her hand is worth a good deal.

It may be good to have Dany's hand as bargaining chip. However, I think it best to marry Aegon & Dany bc it adds legitimacy to him. Dany's identity is not going to be questioned so she by virtue of being his wife would legitimize his identity imo

 

[Stormking902]

You ever hear of not putting all your eggs in one basket well I believe this is the case here with Illyrio, IMO he never expected Viserys to survive. Remember Viserys was staying with Illyrio for a lil while which Illyrio got the chance to see Viserys temperment which sucks to say the least but yet he thinks Khal Drogo is gonna put up with him? The answer is hell no Illyrio was probably amazed he lasted as long as he did lol. His real goal is Danny by buttering her up with Dragon eggs he shows her hes in her corner and he really cares for her well being. Faegon is his main plan and Danny his back up, the dragon eggs also symbolize house Targaryan and the IT kind of giving her a nudge to try and take back what is rightfully hers.

[Makk]

2 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

You ever hear of not putting all your eggs in one basket well I believe this is the case here with Illyrio, IMO he never expected Viserys to survive. Remember Viserys was staying with Illyrio for a lil while which Illyrio got the chance to see Viserys temperment which sucks to say the least but yet he thinks Khal Drogo is gonna put up with him? The answer is hell no Illyrio was probably amazed he lasted as long as he did lol. His real goal is Danny by buttering her up with Dragon eggs he shows her hes in her corner and he really cares for her well being. Faegon is his main plan and Danny his back up, the dragon eggs also symbolize house Targaryan and the IT kind of giving her a nudge to try and take back what is rightfully hers.

I guess this comes down to what you believe Illyrio's real motivations are. I am a firm believer he wants Aegon on the throne because Aegon is his son. Aegon isn't just his main plan, it is his only plan and motivation. 

[Stormking902]

10 minutes ago, Makk said:

I guess this comes down to what you believe Illyrio's real motivations are. I am a firm believer he wants Aegon on the throne because Aegon is his son. Aegon isn't just his main plan, it is his only plan and motivation. 

Then why help Danny at all?? Why not have her and her brother killed? Or even better marry Faegon to Danny and really seal the deal?. 

[Makk]

3 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Then why help Danny at all?? Why not have her and her brother killed? Or even better marry Faegon to Danny and really seal the deal?. 

Exactly. As I mentioned before I think it was option 3, George didn't have this part of the story conceived when he wrote it. You can come up with some elaborate explanations, but I don't think he had them in mind when he wrote the first bit.

[Lost Melnibonean]

23 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

Yeah but why? If Aegon is the plan then you kill the people who are the biggest threat to his claim, not give them an army. There's absolutely no reason to keep Viserys alive if Aegon is the plan. At the very least Varys & Illryrio were hitching their horse to two wagons.

But if you want your Blackfyre imposter to appear to be a Targaryen, you surround him with Targaryens. If Viserys hadn't played ball, Strang Belwas could have tied him in a sack and tossed him into the bay. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

26 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

It may be good to have Dany's hand as bargaining chip. However, I think it best to marry Aegon & Dany bc it adds legitimacy to him. Dany's identity is not going to be questioned so she by virtue of being his wife would legitimize his identity imo

Viserys would give him legitimacy, or not. Daenerys was just a furtive little girl. 

[Makk]

Just now, Lost Melnibonean said:

Viserys would give him legitimacy, or not. Daenerys was just a furtive little girl. 

Give Aegon legitimacy? Viserys wouldn't have wanted anything to do with someone who had a better claim to the throne than himself, he was an entitled brat.

[Lost Melnibonean]

13 minutes ago, Stormking902 said:

Then why help Danny at all?? Why not have her and her brother killed? Or even better marry Faegon to Danny and really seal the deal?. 

Illyrio sold her to a Dothraki horselord. He thought she might die on the steppe. He doesn't gain a Dothraki khalasar if he weds her to Aegon. 

[Maxxine]

Just now, Lost Melnibonean said:

But if you want your Blackfyre imposter to appear to be a Targaryen, you surround him with Targaryens. If Viserys hadn't played ball, Strang Belwas could have tied him in a sack and tossed him into the bay. 

That's the reason you marry him to Dany. Nothing about Viserys gives you the impression he would put aside his own claim to support Aegon, even if Aegon is actually Rhaegar's son. Viserys had been with Illyrio for about a year so even if this was Illyrio's plan at first, it should become apparent that he would've been an obstacle to Aegon so why keep him alive and give him an army?

We're led to believe that the plan was give Viserys an army, he'll invade Westeros, then Aegon will come save the day. That's just seems absurdly risky plan to me especially when there's the much simpler plan of kill Viserys & marry Dany to Aegon that doesn't have all these contingencies and what ifs.  

[Maxxine]

8 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Viserys would give him legitimacy, or not. Daenerys was just a furtive little girl. 

But Dany was still a Targ whose identity is not in question. I actually think Dany's temperament at the beginning of the book works well. As long as you didn't kill Viserys right in front of her and play it off as an accident or even an assassination by Robert, she's going to go along with it if you bring in Aegon and say this is your nephew, marry him so you two can take over Westeros & avenge your family. Viserys was nowhere near as pliable as Dany was. He would've been an issue regardless

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 minutes ago, Makk said:

Give Aegon legitimacy? Viserys wouldn't have wanted anything to do with someone who had a better claim to the throne than himself, he was an entitled brat.

Quite possible. But maybe, after years of begging, one step ahead of the usurper's knives, then a year or two of Arbor gold and banging Lyseni bedslaves, nominal command of a khalasar and Arianne might have seemed a pretty sweet gig. Especially if the alternative were a dance with Strong Belwas. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

13 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

That's the reason you marry him to Dany. Nothing about Viserys gives you the impression he would put aside his own claim to support Aegon, even if Aegon is actually Rhaegar's son. Viserys had been with Illyrio for about a year so even if this was Illyrio's plan at first, it should become apparent that he would've been an obstacle to Aegon so why keep him alive and give him an army?

We're led to believe that the plan was give Viserys an army, he'll invade Westeros, then Aegon will come save the day. That's just seems absurdly risky plan to me especially when there's the much simpler plan of kill Viserys & marry Dany to Aegon that doesn't have all these contingencies and what ifs.  

Well, marrying Daenerys to Aegon might have given the noble lad legitimacy would not have given him a khalasar. The Golden Company was not enough. 

I expect Illyrio knew Viserys wasn't going to win the loyalty of Khal Drogo, so he didna fear giving him an army, as you say. 

I agree 100 percent with your assessment of the send Viserys and Daenerys in first theory. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

17 minutes ago, Maxxine said:

But Dany was still a Targ whose identity is not in question. I actually think Dany's temperament at the beginning of the book works well. As long as you didn't kill Viserys right in front of her and play it off as an accident or even an assassination by Robert, she's going to go along with it if you bring in Aegon and say this is your nephew, marry him so you two can take over Westeros & avenge your family. Viserys was nowhere near as pliable as Dany was. He would've been an issue regardless

That gives Illyrio the Golden Company and Dorne but lacks the Dothraki muscle. 

[Makk]

15 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Quite possible. But maybe, after years of begging, one step ahead of the usurper's knives, then a year or two of Arbor gold and banging Lyseni bedslaves, nominal command of a khalasar and Arianne might have seemed a pretty sweet gig. Especially if the alternative were a dance with Strong Belwas. 

Hmmm, I'll concede you may have a point, it didn't really occur to me that way. I still don't really think his temperament is right to be subservient though, especially once he gets his first taste of power. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 minute ago, Makk said:

Hmmm, I'll concede you may have a point, it didn't really occur to me that way. I still don't really think his temperament is right to be subservient though, especially once he gets his first taste of power. 

In the end you're right of course. Viserys says I'm going with Drogo and gets his crown. Whatta dumbf@$k. Then, as Belwas says, Illyrio wept for the plans he had made. Of course, the next diptych from Jorah had the bit about dragons, and wedding Daenerys was looking better. Plans change. 

[Maxxine]

3 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Well, marrying Daenerys to Aegon might have given the noble lad legitimacy would not have given him a khalasar. The Golden Company was not enough. 

I expect Illyrio knew Viserys wasn't going to win the loyalty of Khal Drogo, so he didna fear giving him an army, as you say. 

I agree 100 percent with your assessment of the send Viserys and Daenerys in first theory. 

But would he have gotten a khalsar regardless. Remember Dothraki won't cross the narrow sea (which is another issue I have with the plan involving the Dothraki). Illyrio couldn't have known Drogo would fall for Dany the way he did & agree to cross the narrow sea for her. So how is the plan going to involve Dothraki anyway? Honestly the more I think about Varys & Illyrio the more I think they're terrible planners or there are just a lot of tiny plot holes. Lol