ljkeane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said: I hope this guy gets a huge payout. Even if the fine print on his ticket makes this legal*, I think it's time for citizen jurors to push back on customers getting physically manhandled to enforce contractual fine print. I don't see any basis for a "security officer" to physically intervene without a court order in a situation not posing harm to others An article I read on this said there's some doubt it was legal. Apparently the fine print on United's contract with passengers allows them to 'deny boarding' involuntarily to non first class passengers after first asking for volunteers for overbooked flights. Whether the term 'deny boarding' covers physically ejecting already boarded passengers for seats for their own staff is a bit of a question mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, ljkeane said: An article I read on this said there's some doubt it was legal. Apparently the fine print on United's contract with passengers allows them to 'deny boarding' involuntarily to non first class passengers after first asking for volunteers for overbooked flights. Whether the term 'deny boarding' covers physically ejecting already boarded passengers for seats for their own staff is a bit of a question mark. The article I saw stated that legally, the captain has full authority to throw anyone off the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Maltaran said: The article I saw stated that legally, the captain has full authority to throw anyone off the plane. That may be the case with 'disruptive' passengers, perhaps why United are using the term so much, but they created the scenario with trying to eject him in the first place. If that's not covered by their contract with their customers I'm not an expert but it seems like enough of a grey area that they could lose if they're sued, and potentially for a lot of money considering how bad the videos look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 12 minutes ago, Swordfish said: See links above. i've already posted link to answer both the question of how often this happens, and the procedures which are followed when it does. i don't know why you keep adding that 'already settled in their seats' part, as if it's some kind of game changer here. of all the inconveniences of being bumped from a flight, I'd suggest that 'already settled in your seat' is the least of them. The passengers always get to go where they paid the airline to take them, Scot. Now you're just being disingenuous. No. This is a long way from the typical situation that you keep claiming that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, ljkeane said: That may be the case with 'disruptive' passengers, perhaps why United are using the term so much, but they created the scenario with trying to eject him in the first place. If that's not covered by their contract with their customers I'm not an expert but it seems like enough of a grey area that they could lose if they're sued, and potentially for a lot of money considering how bad the videos look. I think there is enough wiggle room in that particular language to have Plaintiff's attorney's salivating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: No. This is a long way from the typical situation that you keep claiming that it is. I have never, not once, described this situation as typical. in fact, i've said numerous times that it's extremely rare. i even posted link showing exactly HOW rare it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Swordfish said: I have never, not once, described this situation as typical. in fact, i've said numerous times that it's extremely rare. i even posted link showing exactly HOW rare it is. And the fact that it is unusual means that it gets attention. Your "nothing to see here... move along" is really missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 The CEO of United has decided this was perhaps worthy of an apology after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 3 hours ago, Swordfish said: Yep. Not much more to say here really. like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: And the fact that it is unusual means that it gets attention. You're "nothing to see here... move along" is really missing the point. It's getting attention because of the force used, not because he was bumped. So... No. I'm not missing the point at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: like this one. I'm flattered that you like that one, but it's far from my best post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Swordfish said: It's getting attention because of the force used, not because he was bumped. So... No. I'm not missing the point at all. Yes. Which prompts the question of whether it is proper (not "legal" ... "proper") to involuntarily boot passengers from aircraft once they are on board given the language about the ability to "deny boarding". They're already "boarded" at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, Swordfish said: I'm flattered that you like that one, but it's far from my best post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Yes. Which prompts the question of whether it is proper to involuntarily boot passengers from aircraft once they are on board given the language about the ability to "deny boarding". They're already "boarded" at that point. That's not the argument you were making, Scot. Seriously, if you're not going to discuss this in good faith, then you're on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: clip So in your professional opinion, if this were to go to civil court, what's the likelihood that the defense would be able to bring up the doctor's prior convictions at trial? Is that something that's pretty likely, or could a judge easily exclude that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Swordfish said: That's not the argument you were making, Scot. Seriously, if you're not going to discuss this in good faith, then you're on your own. That's the argument I'm making now. Conversations flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I think there is enough wiggle room in that particular language to have Plaintiff's attorney's salivating. Oh yeah, I imagine this gentleman's door is being knocked down right now by attorneys. This has payday stamped all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 38 minutes ago, Swordfish said: It's getting attention because of the force used, not because he was bumped. So... No. I'm not missing the point at all. He wasn't bumped, that would have prevented all of this mess. He was removed, with excessive force when offering cash would probably have solved the issue easily. The deep problem is companies happily using force when clear paths to convince people otherwise are available. The problem is even more clear when competition (Delta apparently) has been using a monetary solution to get out of their own messes recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Seli said: He wasn't bumped, that would have prevented all of this mess. He was removed, with excessive force when offering cash would probably have solved the issue easily. The deep problem is companies happily using force when clear paths to convince people otherwise are available. The problem is even more clear when competition (Delta apparently) has been using a monetary solution to get out of their own messes recently. Dunno if they're fake or not, but people claiming to have been passengers have said that other passengers did in fact say they'd 'volunteer' if the price was high enough, but were literally laughed off before being told United had alternative options, ie 'lottery'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, Seli said: He wasn't bumped, that would have prevented all of this mess. He was removed, with excessive force when offering cash would probably have solved the issue easily. The deep problem is companies happily using force when clear paths to convince people otherwise are available. The problem is even more clear when competition (Delta apparently) has been using a monetary solution to get out of their own messes recently. I googled what you said about Delta. That's smart:http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/how-delta-masters-the-game-of-overbooking-flights/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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