Jon and Daeneris

[iprayiam]

10 minutes ago, LucyMormont said:

I think they are both far from perfect. He has too much of a hero complex that makes him do stupid things, she has too much of a royal complex that makes her do ruthless and completely unnecessary things. Both have made serious mistakes. If they were both perfect, why half of Jon's fans hate Dany, and half of Dany's fans hate Jon?

The problem is that they aren't imperfect in particularly complementary ways. I said earlier that the characters have been written as nearly the boy and girl version of each other.

Instead it ends up somewhat hypocritical when they acknowledge each other's flaws. Like her calling him a hero... Is she not a self-styled heroic, battle ready character herself?

On the contrary, "You know nothing Jon Snow" was such an iconic line because Ygritte was able to call out Jon's naievity  blinded by arrogance and it rang very true

[Sea Dragon]

On August 21, 2017 at 1:06 AM, Hoo said:

Is she in love with Jon?

Tyrion kinda recognized when she equated him to former lovers.  Then the hand squeeze.

He doesn't seem to be interested.  It's kinda sad.  What is going on?

Yes she is interested. They both are with each other. It is their destiny and the author wrote them to be that way. 

I have not watched much of this show ever, but it was nice to finally see them get together like they will in the books. That is practically garaunteed. 

[Stormourne]

39 minutes ago, princess brittany said:

i like them together. him calling her dany was a little odd though. 

Unless 'Dany' is a standard pet-name in Westoros, there is no logical reason for Jon to actually know that her pet-name was Dany, unless he heard someone call her that in Dragonstone. Now, she said that the last person to call her that was her brother, so that suggests that no one else has called her Dany in a long time. However, one of her followers could have heard Viserys call her Dany, and said that behind her back. And that could be one way for Jon to hear someone call her Dany.

Or, this was show-logic in action, and it was pandering to the casual viewers who care little for these intricate explanations.

[Stormourne]

4 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

Yes she is interested. They both are with each other. It is their destiny and the author wrote them to be that way. 

I have not watched much of this show ever, but it was nice to finally see them get together like they will in the books. That is practically garaunteed. 

There is a strong chance they could get together in the novels, although romance is not a given. They could learn to love each other like Ned and Cat did, which for me is a lesser-kind-of-love than the traditional and fictional notion of "soul-mates". However, ever since the 1993 outline was leaked, in which we learned that George initially planned the novels with Jon and Arya falling in love - which genuinely horrifies them until his true parentage is revealed - there will always be this question of whether or not Starkcest will play a part in the last two novels.

In the case of the show, Starkcest would not work. Ever. Since the argued basis for Starkcest in Asoiaf stems from the fact that the bond between Jon and Arya is almost unnaturally emphasized throughout the five books - they think and feel about each other on a regular basis through internal monologues. Jon dies trying to save Fake-Arya (Jeyne Poole) from Ramsay, which is the straw that broke the dragons back for the Night's Watch.

Anyway, the endgame for Jon is still more debatable in the books. Had that leaked manuscript not resurfaced, I think more people would have believed a Jon/Daenerys outcome is certain.

But, I do think that George changed Jon/Arya while writing the first book to Jamie/Cersei. We have to remember that the Arya/Jon plot was written before the Lanistercest was even conceived - since Jamie and Cersei are not mentioned in the manuscript in terms of incest.

A Song of Ice and Fire most likely symbolizes House Stark and Targaryen, Jon and Daenerys, winter and summer, light and darkness, life and death, and Jon Snow by himself, and Daenerys by her self.

Any thoughts?

[Ashes Of Westeros]

10 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

A Song of Ice and Fire most likely symbolizes House Stark and Targaryen, Jon and Daenerys, winter and summer, light and darkness, life and death, and Jon Snow by himself, and Daenerys by her self.

I think Jon is a song of ice and fire because he's Stark + Targaryen. 

[Sea Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

There is a strong chance they could get together in the novels, although romance is not a given. They could learn to love each other like Ned and Cat did, which for me is a lesser-kind-of-love than the traditional and fictional notion of "soul-mates". However, ever since the 1993 outline was leaked, in which we learned that George initially planned the novels with Jon and Arya falling in love - which genuinely horrifies them until his true parentage is revealed - there will always be this question of whether or not Starkcest will play a part in the last two novels.

I think it is a very strong case that Daenerys and Jon will be the ones together in the end of the books. I did read that outline before and the ending was covered up or something and we don't know how it ended really. I would not use that for much proof really. 

19 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

In the case of the show, Starkcest would not work. Ever.

I agree, but why do you say that? Isn't the show supposed to be mostly like books? Sorry, this is an honest question because I hardly watch the show and I do not follow other forums. But if the incest between Daenerys and Jon is fine, then hypothetically a Starkcest (that is a  funny word) relationship should work too. 

19 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

 

Since the argued basis for Starkcest in Asoiaf stems from the fact that the bond between Jon and Arya is almost unnaturally emphasized throughout the five books - they think and feel about each other on a regular basis through internal monologues. Jon dies trying to save Fake-Arya (Jeyne Poole) from Ramsay, which is the straw that broke the dragons back for the Night's Watch.

Honestly, Arya thinks about Jon way more than he thinks about her. Jon thinks about Arya in the last book that much because he keeps getting letters and wedding invites about her. 

The outline also had Tyrion in the love triangle. You mention that Jaime and Cersei incest was from the Jon and Arya incest. I guess to add on to that I think the author changed the love triangle to be Tyrion and Arya meeting and having a romantic relationship. Arya is in Braavos training to be "faceless" and Tyrion is faceless, and Tyrion is going to Braavos in the next book (most likely with Daenerys) and he is still looking for where "whore's go", and we know form the Arya chapters that she is about to go train with the Black Pearl courtesan. There is more but that is all I can type at the minute. That outline is a mess and doesn't seem very accurate anymore and it seems like it all shifted to something like this. 

19 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

Anyway, the endgame for Jon is still more debatable in the books. Had that leaked manuscript not resurfaced, I think more people would have believed a Jon/Daenerys outcome is certain.

But, I do think that George changed Jon/Arya while writing the first book to Jamie/Cersei. We have to remember that the Arya/Jon plot was written before the Lanistercest was even conceived - since Jamie and Cersei are not mentioned in the manuscript in terms of incest.

Wow. That is a good point and I never thought of that. Thank you. That makes sense. 

19 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

A Song of Ice and Fire most likely symbolizes House Stark and Targaryen, Jon and Daenerys, winter and summer, light and darkness, life and death, and Jon Snow by himself, and Daenerys by her self.

Any thoughts?

I think the song of ice and fire symbolizes the joining of Daenerys and Jon since Daenerys and Jon both have ice and north blood and the Targaryen fire blood. I think their baby is the prince that was promised. I think Daenerys will have her three heads with her and Jon and Daario. That is a bit of the fire and ice too between Jon and Daario. But I guess Daario is not in the show because now that I think about it I did not seen him. 

[Stormourne]

3 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

The outline also had Tyrion in the love triangle. You mention that Jaime and Cersei incest was from the Jon and Arya incest. I guess to add on to that I think the author changed the love triangle to be Tyrion and Arya meeting and having a romantic relationship. Arya is in Braavos training to be "faceless" and Tyrion is faceless, and Tyrion is going to Braavos in the next book (most likely with Daenerys) and he is still looking for where "whore's go", and we know form the Arya chapters that she is about to go train with the Black Pearl courtesan. There is more but that is all I can type at the minute. That outline is a mess and doesn't seem very accurate anymore and it seems like it all shifted to something like this.

I would hate Tyrion and Arya having a romantic relationship. Seriously. I would advise Tyrion not to even approach her. Because given the state of affairs, it's more likely that Arya will assassinate Tyrion, than to have her converse with him. I mean, should Arya see Tyrion in Braavos, she would change faces and plan to kill him. Because for all she knows, Tyrion and his family forced Sansa into marriage, probably raped her, and killed her since no one knows where Sansa is anymore.

:S I would rather have Arya become the new Spymaster once Jon/Dany become King/Queen. I think breaking the wheel = absolute monarchism. Where each lord does not have a standing army of their own, rather, they might build up one national army directly under the control of the monarchy.

Spy-and-Assassin-master Arya Stark, becoming Jon Targaryen's right hand woman would be awesome. And this way, Arya can be her own woman and not some man's wife. I hate the Arya/Gendry shippers. Why does she need to be reduced to a cliche? she does not need to marry to get a happy ending.

[Kytheros]

1 hour ago, iprayiam said:

Exactly. This is what I've been saying. The characters are too perfect in too many of the same ways that they offer nothing unique or personal to each other's emotional development. 

The only situation where this really works dramatically is when there are circumstances keeping them apart. Think Princess Buttercup and Wesley.

What do you think's going to happen when Jon finds out he's not who he thought he was his entire life? Being the "Bastard of Winterfell" - being Ned Stark's bastard son is massively central to his self-image, to who he is. Finding out that he's not Ned's bastard son, but Ned's nephew - Lyanna Stark's son by Rhaegar Targaryen is going to be an earthshaking revelation for him.

What do you think's going to happen when Daenerys finds out about Jon's parentage? Being the "Last Targaryen" - being the rightful heir to her father's throne is equally important to Dany's self-image, to who she is. Finding out that she's not the Last Targaryen - that she's not the rightful heir, that her idolized older brother (who died before she was born) has a trueborn son, who is the true rightful heir to the Iron Throne, that's going to be fairly significant to her as well.

 

Finding out about Jon's true parentage is going to disrupt things for both of them, especially if they get into more of a relationship, especially an intimate one.

 

Mind, I'm not saying that I trust Dan&Dave to do a good job writing it. Just that it's not quite as simple and straightforward as you seem to think.

[MinscS2]

Honestly, getting emotionally involved with a fictional couple and actually feeling their emotions trough the big screen or trough the papers (if you read a book) is a very complex and strange thing. I know that some of my recent posts don't actually make it sound like it, but I actually don't blame people for not getting emotionally involved in Jon and Daenerys relationship.
How you react to this kind of romantic development is very personal, and either you buy the fact that couple X love each other and feel their love trough the screen, or you don't.

I'm personally not the kind of person who get's emotionally involved easily when it comes to fictional couples. As a matter of fact, out of all the romantic relationships that has been portrayed in the GoT TV-show, I've felt very little or outright nothing for the vast majority of them:

Robb and Talissa are a prime example of a romantic relationship that I felt nothing for. I "knew" that they fell in love and that they loved each other, I just didn't feel it on a personal level. I simply didn't feel the on-screen chemistry and love that the pair was supposed to have. I didn't like when they died, but I wasn't emotionally devastated either.

Tyrion and Shae likewise, are romantic relationship that I simply didn't buy or get emotionally involved with. Peter Dinklage is awesome, and I love Tyrion, but their romance just never felt real to me.

Cersei and Jamies weird relation probably isn't meant to get people emotionally invested in their relationship. I like both of the characters very much, for different reasons. Cersei is an excellent bad guy, and Jamie is a very well written grey character. I know that they're supposedly in love with each other, but despite this knowledge, and despite them being (overly) intimate with each other on many occasions on the show, again I just don't feel that they are actually in love.

I could actually feel the chemistry between Daenerys and Drogo during a couple of episodes, and I knew that they supposedly loved each other very much by the time Drogo died, but yet again I didn't get emotionally attached to their relationship. I guess part of me never got past the idéa that Daenerys was essentially married of like property, raped by Drogo, and that her affection for him was rooted in Stockholms Syndrome and out of necessity.

As for Sam and Gilly, again I feel nothing. In their defense though, their relationship feels abit underdeveloped. I'm not even sure if they love each other, or if Gilly just had pitysex with Sam, and Sam has a crush on Gilly that won't go away, and feel responsible for her since he brought her south of the wall. Either way, I don't feel anything for them on a personal level.

This leaves Jon and Ygritte, and before season 7, their romance and their affection towards each other was the first romantic relationship that actually felt genuine too me. I could feel the chemistry between them, the awkwardness of certain situations, I got emotionally attached to the idea of them together, and loved their on-screen presence.Their love felt real, I could feel it trough the screen.


Que season 7 and the meeting of Jon and Daenerys.
I'm actually surprised at myself, even a bit perplexed, at the speed of which I got emotionally involved with the idea of these two as a couple.
I never actually thought about the fact that these two might end up together. It was not something I considered until the very end of season 6, when it was clear that Daenerys would finally sail to Westeros, and with Jon in a position where he might catch her attention as King in the North. When Dany left Daario behind and mentioned that she needs to marry someone in Westeros was actually the first time that I considered that her and Jon might meet and fall for each other. 

Jump forward to episode 3 where they actually meet, and I instantly get involved with these two. I feel their chemistry, I want them to end up together. I feel their relationship growing during episode 4, 5 and 6, and currently  I'm totally sold on their relationship.
Just as with Jon and Ygritte, I can feel their chemistry, their emotions, their love for each come at me trough the screen. Unlike most the other relationships depicted in this series, I don't just know that they love each other because the show tells me that the characters love each other, I can actually feel it.
Do I think their relationship is depicted perfectly in the show? No, far from it. I'd love to see more scenes of them together, to see them discuss certain things and see their relationship evolve more, but despite this, their romance pushes all the right buttons for me on a personal level, which makes it believable, despite the quick pacing.

I actually sympathize with those who don't feel about Jon and Dany this way, but I know there's no point in arguing or trying to prove anyone right or wrong. Again, it's something you either feel, or you don't. You can't convince someone to get these feelings.

Put me in a room with some adamant Robb/Talissa shippers, and I can guarantee that no matter their arguments, no matter the logic behind their reasoning, I just wouldn't be able to get emotionally involved in their lovestory. Not because don't want too, but because I simply can't - I don't feel it.

It's the same with people who don't buy into Jon and Daenerys. There's no point for me to try and bend you to "my side", because I know that if you don't feel that their relationship is genuine, or feel their feelings for each other, then no amount of debating or arguing will make you feel that way either, and you'll just come with arguments (some of which are valid) as to why you don't like their relationship.

In the end, we all just have to agree to disagree if nothing else.

 

[Stormourne]

4 minutes ago, Kytheros said:

What do you think's going to happen when Jon finds out he's not who he thought he was his entire life? Being the "Bastard of Winterfell" - being Ned Stark's bastard son is massively central to his self-image, to who he is. Finding out that he's not Ned's bastard son, but Ned's nephew - Lyanna Stark's son by Rhaegar Targaryen is going to be an earthshaking revelation for him.

What do you think's going to happen when Daenerys finds out about Jon's parentage? Being the "Last Targaryen" - being the rightful heir to her father's throne is equally important to Dany's self-image, to who she is. Finding out that she's not the Last Targaryen - that she's not the rightful heir, that her idolized older brother (who died before she was born) has a trueborn son, who is the true rightful heir to the Iron Throne, that's going to be fairly significant to her as well.

 

Finding out about Jon's true parentage is going to disrupt things for both of them, especially if they get into more of a relationship, especially an intimate one.

 

Mind, I'm not saying that I trust Dan&Dave to do a good job writing it. Just that it's not quite as simple and straightforward as you seem to think.

I think there is a strong possibility that Jon and Daenerys will have sex before the truth is revealed, and she will fall pregnant, much to her surprise. Magic and Targaryen blood and whatnot could mean that Jon is the only guy who could impregnate her. The show could sell it, and then when she finds out about his heritage, the relationship is set in stone. Jon being the honourable guy he is, would offer a marriage - perhaps Tyrion and Varys will advice the union.

Politically, it makes sense. And the unplanned pregnancy could be used to bypass the whole incest-issue. Daenerys might not have an issue with it, but Jon would feel conflicted; especially when we add a child to the equation. Jon has always wanted a family, but he is almost traumatized with the idea of fathering a bastard. He would marry her. 

[Stormourne]

4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Honestly, getting emotionally involved with a fictional couple and actually feeling their emotions trough the big screen or trough the papers (if you read a book) is a very complex and strange thing. I know that some of my recent posts don't actually make it sound like it, but I actually don't blame people for not getting emotionally involved in Jon and Daenerys relationship.
How you react to this kind of romantic development is very personal, and either you buy the fact that couple X love each other and feel their love trough the screen, or you don't.

I'm personally not the kind of person who get's emotionally involved easily when it comes to fictional couples. As a matter of fact, out of all the romantic relationships that has been portrayed in the GoT TV-show, I've felt very little or outright nothing for the vast majority of them:

Robb and Talissa are a prime example of a romantic relationship that I felt nothing for. I "knew" that they fell in love and that they loved each other, I just didn't feel it on a personal level. I simply didn't feel the on-screen chemistry and love that the pair was supposed to have. I didn't like when they died, but I wasn't emotionally devastated either.

Tyrion and Shae likewise, are romantic relationship that I simply didn't buy or get emotionally involved with. Peter Dinklage is awesome, and I love Tyrion, but their romance just never felt real to me.

Cersei and Jamies weird relation probably isn't meant to get people emotionally invested in their relationship. I like both of the characters very much, for different reasons. Cersei is an excellent bad guy, and Jamie is a very well written grey character. I know that they're supposedly in love with each other, but despite this knowledge, and despite them being (overly) intimate with each other on many occasions on the show, again I just don't feel that they are actually i love.

I could actually feel the chemistry between Daenerys and Drogo during a couple of episodes, and I knew that they supposedly loved each other very much by the time Drogo died, but yet again I didn't get emotionally attached to their relationship. I guess part of me never got past the idéa that Daenerys was essentially married of like property, raped by Drogo, and that her affection for him was founded by Stockholms Syndrome.

As for Sam and Gilly, again I feel nothing. In their defense though, their relationship feels abit underdeveloped. I'm not even sure if they love each other, or if Gilly just had pitysex with Sam, and Sam has a crush on Gilly that won't go away, and feel responsible for her since he brought her south of the wall. Either way, I don't feel anything for them on a personal level.

This leaves Jon and Ygritte, and before season 7, their romance and their affection towards each other was the first romantic relationship that actually felt genuine too me. I could feel the chemistry between them, the awkwardness of certain situations, I got emotionally attached to the idea of them together, and loved their on-screen presence.Their love felt real, I could feel it trough the screen.


Que season 7 and the meeting of Jon and Daenerys.
I'm actually surprised at myself, even a bit perplexed, at the speed of which I got emotionally involved with the idea of these two as a couple.
I never actually thought about the fact that these two might end up together. It was not something I considered until the very end of season 6, when it was clear that Daenerys would finally sail to Westeros, and with Jon in a position where he might catch her attention as King in the North. When Dany left Daario behind and mentioned that she needs to marry someone in Westeros was actually the first time that I considered that her and Jon might meet and fall for each other. 

Jump forward to episode 3 where they actually meet, and I instantly get involved with these two. I feel their chemistry, I want them to end up together. I feel their relationship growing during episode 4, 5 and 6, and currently  I'm totally sold on their relationship.
Just as with Jon and Ygritte, I can feel their chemistry, their emotions, their love for each come at me trough the screen. Unlike most the other relationships depicted in this series, I don't just know that they love each other because the show tells me that the characters love each other, I can actually feel it.

I actually sympathize with those who don't feel about Jon and Dany this way, but I know there's no point in arguing or trying to prove anyone right or wrong.. Again, it's something you either feel, or you don't. You can't convince someone to get these feelings.

Put me in a room with some adamant Robb/Talissa shippers, and I can guarantee that no matter their arguments, no matter the logic behind their reasoning, I just wouldn't be able to get emotionally involved in their lovestory. Not because I want or don't want too, but because I simply can't, I don't feel it.
It's the same with people who don't buy into Jon and Daenerys. There's no point for me to try and bend you to "my side", because I know that if you don't feel that their relationship is genuine, or feel their feelings for each other, then no amount of debating or arguing will make you feel that way either.

In the end, we all just have to agree to disagree if nothing else.

 

I agree. The show made the growing relationship believable. The argument that it is rushed makes little sense, not when we can point to real life and prove that people can and do fall in love at first sight.

[MinscS2]

57 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

I think there is a strong possibility that Jon and Daenerys will have sex before the truth is revealed, and she will fall pregnant, much to her surprise. Magic and Targaryen blood and whatnot could mean that Jon is the only guy who could impregnate her. The show could sell it, and then when she finds out about his heritage, the relationship is set in stone. Jon being the honourable guy he is, would offer a marriage - perhaps Tyrion and Varys will advice the union.

Politically, it makes sense. And the unplanned pregnancy could be used to bypass the whole incest-issue. Daenerys might not have an issue with it, but Jon would feel conflicted; especially when we add a child to the equation. Jon has always wanted a family, but he is almost traumatized with the idea of fathering a bastard. He would marry her. 

QFT.

I'm genuinely curious how Jon and Dany will react when/if they find out, especially if she is pregnant when they do.
I can see either and both of them react negatively, positively or barely at all, for various reasons.
If they are still in love when it happens, I can easily see them take the news in a somewhat mild-mannered fashion, and decide to do the best of the situation, i.e. shotgun wedding, since that would solve a lot of their problems; their child would not become a bastard (Jons biggest issue), the succession-issue would solve itself (Danys biggest issue) and their power would be consolidated with them having control of most of Westeros, just in time to fight of the White Walkers.
 

[Deminelle]

11 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Honestly, getting emotionally involved with a fictional couple and actually feeling their emotions trough the big screen or trough the papers (if you read a book) is a very complex and strange thing. I know that some of my recent posts don't actually make it sound like it, but I actually don't blame people for not getting emotionally involved in Jon and Daenerys relationship.
How you react to this kind of romantic development is very personal, and either you buy the fact that couple X love each other and feel their love trough the screen, or you don't.

I'm personally not the kind of person who get's emotionally involved easily when it comes to fictional couples. As a matter of fact, out of all the romantic relationships that has been portrayed in the GoT TV-show, I've felt very little or outright nothing for the vast majority of them:

Robb and Talissa are a prime example of a romantic relationship that I felt nothing for. I "knew" that they fell in love and that they loved each other, I just didn't feel it on a personal level. I simply didn't feel the on-screen chemistry and love that the pair was supposed to have. I didn't like when they died, but I wasn't emotionally devastated either.

Tyrion and Shae likewise, are romantic relationship that I simply didn't buy or get emotionally involved with. Peter Dinklage is awesome, and I love Tyrion, but their romance just never felt real to me.

Cersei and Jamies weird relation probably isn't meant to get people emotionally invested in their relationship. I like both of the characters very much, for different reasons. Cersei is an excellent bad guy, and Jamie is a very well written grey character. I know that they're supposedly in love with each other, but despite this knowledge, and despite them being (overly) intimate with each other on many occasions on the show, again I just don't feel that they are actually i love.

I could actually feel the chemistry between Daenerys and Drogo during a couple of episodes, and I knew that they supposedly loved each other very much by the time Drogo died, but yet again I didn't get emotionally attached to their relationship. I guess part of me never got past the idéa that Daenerys was essentially married of like property, raped by Drogo, and that her affection for him was founded by Stockholms Syndrome.

As for Sam and Gilly, again I feel nothing. In their defense though, their relationship feels abit underdeveloped. I'm not even sure if they love each other, or if Gilly just had pitysex with Sam, and Sam has a crush on Gilly that won't go away, and feel responsible for her since he brought her south of the wall. Either way, I don't feel anything for them on a personal level.

This leaves Jon and Ygritte, and before season 7, their romance and their affection towards each other was the first romantic relationship that actually felt genuine too me. I could feel the chemistry between them, the awkwardness of certain situations, I got emotionally attached to the idea of them together, and loved their on-screen presence.Their love felt real, I could feel it trough the screen.


Que season 7 and the meeting of Jon and Daenerys.
I'm actually surprised at myself, even a bit perplexed, at the speed of which I got emotionally involved with the idea of these two as a couple.
I never actually thought about the fact that these two might end up together. It was not something I considered until the very end of season 6, when it was clear that Daenerys would finally sail to Westeros, and with Jon in a position where he might catch her attention as King in the North. When Dany left Daario behind and mentioned that she needs to marry someone in Westeros was actually the first time that I considered that her and Jon might meet and fall for each other. 

Jump forward to episode 3 where they actually meet, and I instantly get involved with these two. I feel their chemistry, I want them to end up together. I feel their relationship growing during episode 4, 5 and 6, and currently  I'm totally sold on their relationship.
Just as with Jon and Ygritte, I can feel their chemistry, their emotions, their love for each come at me trough the screen. Unlike most the other relationships depicted in this series, I don't just know that they love each other because the show tells me that the characters love each other, I can actually feel it.

I actually sympathize with those who don't feel about Jon and Dany this way, but I know there's no point in arguing or trying to prove anyone right or wrong.. Again, it's something you either feel, or you don't. You can't convince someone to get these feelings.

Put me in a room with some adamant Robb/Talissa shippers, and I can guarantee that no matter their arguments, no matter the logic behind their reasoning, I just wouldn't be able to get emotionally involved in their lovestory. Not because I want or don't want too, but because I simply can't, I don't feel it.
It's the same with people who don't buy into Jon and Daenerys. There's no point for me to try and bend you to "my side", because I know that if you don't feel that their relationship is genuine, or feel their feelings for each other, then no amount of debating or arguing will make you feel that way either.

In the end, we all just have to agree to disagree if nothing else.

 

Nicely explained.

Robb and Talissa. Just like you said, it didn't touch me personally either. It was one of those couples you witness in real life falling madly in love. They live in their own intense bubble.

It made very much sense seeing Shae betray Tyrion in the end. She was a fortune seeker after all. Made me very sad for Tyrion.

Cersei and Jaime is something you can't or don't want to get involved with. However, I had some sympathy for Jaime, especially after Brienne scenes and I did wish for him to snap out of his thing with Cersei. But I don't care what happens to him anymore.  

Daenerys and Drogo. It was a forced marriage, a dreadful start for a woman. I didn't expect it to end so shortly. That's why I was happy for Daenerys that she could turn it to better. Drogo was not so brutal after all once he was shown another way.

Sam and Gilly is like one typical fat/ugly/dumb couple you need for the show. 

With Jon and Daenerys I can feel that their romance is growing. I'm silently rooting for them to get each other while I can see other plot twists as well. Mainly because I've been reading the forum speculations. Also the fact that Dany is expected to marry someone on Westeros dimmens things a bit, as does her assumed inability to carry children.

Here's my explanation to why Jon and Ygrette felt so powerful. When you fall in love there is a stage when you try to deny it. Those two were already on the opposite sides in the beginning. Jon was in very dangerous position all that time. Their passion for each other felt very believable. Ygrette did a very good job teasing him. They both betrayed their former oaths and beliefs. It's love conquering the barriers.

Jon and Dany don't really go through any dislike or hate phase. They respect each other as chosen leaders by their people. Even though Dany has the upper hand when she meets Jon for the first time we know that she is not going to do something mad like Cersei might. There's is nothing to fear for Jon, imo.

Their relationship grows slower and is based on their personal losses and uncertainty of their future roles. There's a ring of sadness to it.

[3sm1r]

4 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

I'm not sure I get exactly what you're trying to say. Something being "forced" and "no natural" is the opposite of being the "obvious choice". How can it be both the obvious choice and forced?

I saw it, that's my whole point. 

I think they are both far from perfect. He has too much of a hero complex that makes him do stupid things, she has too much of a royal complex that makes her do ruthless and completely unnecessary things. Both have made serious mistakes. If they were both perfect, why half of Jon's fans hate Dany, and half of Dany's fans hate Jon?

 

This I can understand. You think that for dramatic purposes, the obvious thing should be avoided, because it is not interesting for you to watch  such a no-brainer outcome. 

But this is  obvious because it was slowly built up since the beginning. It is as obvious as the fact that the Night King will break through the Wall. Would it be better that, after all these 76 episodes and years of setting up, the Night King changes his mind and decides that he does not want to go south after all? That would certainly be a shock for the viewers, but  also  an incredible cheat-the-audience thing to do, and a token of very bad writting.
May be I'm in the minority here, but I'll gladly welcome some obviousness, given that it's delivered in a classy way... 
May be it's because I'm not the usual fan of this show, I  love too much the classic fantasy for it, and this is not classic fantasy at all, so many of the things this series of books/show is praised for, I don't particularly like them, and I managed to somehow enjoy the books/show despite them... IMHO, some fans of this show are too fond of suffering and tragedy, but to each his own

It's "obvious"  from the point of view of fan service, since they are the male and female protagonists, but it sounds "forced" when I watch it on screen. 

Even if we know in reality they're not perfect, they haven't called each other out for any imperfection, so what makes them human has not been used building the relationship. That's why Ygritte's main line taken alone is more compelling than everything Dany has said to Jon until now. 

The NK breaking the wall cannot be compared to that love story in terms of importance, come on!

[MinscS2]

5 hours ago, Deminelle said:

Their relationship grows slower and is based on their personal losses and uncertainty of their future roles. There's a ring of sadness to it.

Which explain why their common musical theme is so sad. Beautiful, but sad.

[norwaywolf123]

20 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Any reason for why you don't like them as a couple?

Jon is not a Lannister, i support House Lannister.

[JonSansaBranArya]

8 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I actually sympathize with those who don't feel about Jon and Dany this way, but I know there's no point in arguing or trying to prove anyone right or wrong. Again, it's something you either feel, or you don't. You can't convince someone to get these feelings.



 

Quotes like this really bug me. What's to sympathize about? 

[JonSansaBranArya]

I have read the leakes and spoilers and suffice it to say, they have been spot on. I will wait until after epi 7 air to express my biggest gripe regarding Jon and Dany. 

[Stormourne]

2 minutes ago, JonSansaBranArya said:

I have read the leakes and spoilers and suffice it to say, they have been spot on. I will wait until after epi 7 air to express my biggest gripe regarding Jon and Dany. 

What's not to like about some Aunt-Nephew sexy-time? I'm waiting for the facial expressions when they realise they've fucked a family member. Will be a good ol' laugh.

[MinscS2]

Just now, JonSansaBranArya said:

Quotes like this really bug me. What's to sympathize about? 

Is that all that you took from my post?...

I thought it was obvious: People who don't buy their romance seems to be mostly annoyed by it, and come up with reasons why they don't like it or why it's bad. (Which as stated, is totally fine.)
Seeing how important Jon and Danys relationship will be for the remainder of the series however, they will have a lot more of screen time together, and if you don't like it, then that will ruin part of the GoT-experience for you. I can sympathize with being forced to watch a romantic relationship that you don't care about. It's not something anyone would enjoy.