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VVSINGOFTHECROSS

Was Aerion Brightflame really mad?

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Yes, he drank wildfire thinking it would turn him into a dragon, aside from that, the depictions we are usually given of him come from a maester's account, a maester who was in Egg's employ, who would've known to get his bacon he'd need to paint the King's enemies negatively. 

 

So, my query is, was Aerion Brightflame really that mad?

 

And what would he have been like as a King?

Edited by VVSINGOFTHECROSS

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He was a psychopathic bully. Just ask Tanselle, whose fingers he broke just for putting on a puppet show where a dragon got killed, which had been around for longer than the Targaryens. He would have been a terrible king along the lines of Joffrey

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20 hours ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

he drank wildfire thinking it would turn him into a dragon

My money says that was Bloodraven fucking with him. A fair amount of "madness" can probably be blamed on Bloodraven fucking with people, actually.

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8 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

My money says that was Bloodraven fucking with him. A fair amount of "madness" can probably be blamed on Bloodraven fucking with people, actually.

Interesting, how would he have done that?

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I guess to be fair, Aerion was in his cups when he drank the wildfire. I don't know that we can say he was mad based on that alone, as we don't know the extents of his intoxication, or what effect dreams or other things were having on him at the time. He certainly seems to have been a very cruel person, but I also get the impression he might have been a skilled warrior.

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19 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

He was a psychopathic bully. Just ask Tanselle, whose fingers he broke just for putting on a puppet show where a dragon got killed, which had been around for longer than the Targaryens. He would have been a terrible king along the lines of Joffrey

Psychopathic bully from one example? 

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14 minutes ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

Psychopathic bully from one example? 

Well, he also threw Egg’s cat down a well and tried to castrate him so he could have a sister to marry; Egg constantly wishes for competitors to kill him. Daeron, Aerion’s elder brother, also called him a monster. So you have two brothers who think he’s a psychopath, not to mention an alcoholic idiot that drank wildfire, and was cowardly enough to call for a Trial by Seven, which resulted in the death of Prince Baelor Breakspear.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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28 minutes ago, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

Psychopathic bully from one example? 

It sounds like you haven't actually read the books, as we have a number of different sources that attest to his cruel nature. 

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2 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

It sounds like you haven't actually read the books, as we have a number of different sources that attest to his cruel nature. 

I’ve read the books, I’m also aware that aegon hated him, and that Darron saw him as nothing more than cruel. But do we get an in depth look at him enough to formally proclaim thanyes he was mad?

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I don't get the impression he was mad in the sense of crazy. He doesn't seem crazy to me, but cruel and malicious.

Jon calls him Aerion the monstrous.

Olenna says Aerion was a monster.

Daeron says Aerion is a monster.

Egg and Dunk both believe Aerion intentionally aimed low to kill Ser Humfrey's horse.

Raymun Fossoway says Aerion is a bad piece of work, vain and cruel, and has no doubt he intentionally aimed to kill Ser Humfrey's horse.

Aerion cracked Tanselle's finger, and shoved her with the toe of his boot as she cradled her maimed hand.

Egg says Aerion used to come into his room at night and put his knife between his legs, and threaten to cut off his genitals.

TWOIAF describes him as cruel and capricious, and a fright.

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Aerion does fit the bill for cruel as well as the bill for being a clinical madman. He believed he was a dragon in human form as early as THK, and one assumes those delusions grew worse over time, not better, leading to him drinking the cup of wildfire.

I doubt this was simply drunken fancy.

This doesn't mean he was not also a very skilled warrior - which he was - as well as pretty rational outside the framework of his delusion. He wasn't like his uncle Rhaegel nor as deranged a creature as Aerys II in his last years.

As king he would have probably be the worst monarch in Westerosi history by far. Hopefully the Blackfyres would have taken care of him.

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:31 AM, VVSINGOFTHECROSS said:

So, my query is, was Aerion Brightflame really that mad?

He was wound a little too tightly, IMO. Is there a clear line between mad and just a royal prick? Probably not.

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On 1/29/2018 at 0:17 PM, Angel Eyes said:

Well, he also threw Egg’s cat down a well and tried to castrate him so he could have a sister to marry; Egg constantly wishes for competitors to kill him. Daeron, Aerion’s elder brother, also called him a monster. So you have two brothers who think he’s a psychopath, not to mention an alcoholic idiot that drank wildfire, and was cowardly enough to call for a Trial by Seven, which resulted in the death of Prince Baelor Breakspear.

I'm not sure why people think all of these things are mutually exclusive. Is the question whether he was cruel and a bad person, or whether he was delusional in his fantasies? Because both can be true; they are in no way mutually exclusive. Basically, can't it be true that Aerion had some unknown reason for believing that he would become a dragon, and that he was a cruel and horrible person?

I mean other Targaryens are literally having dreams about dragons hatching at Whitewalls, so Aerion believing he would turn into a dragon is not entirely far fetched. 

Everyone would have thought walking into a funeral pyre with the dragon eggs was insane too, if it hadn't worked. 

It seems much more likely to me that Aerion wasn't mad in the true sense of the word; he wasn't insane and acting illogically. He was cruel and mean and a horrible person, but he was acting based on some logic that we are unaware of when he drank his cup of wildfire. One little flaw in his logic probably led to his delusions of grandeur, like Rhaegar when he first thought he was TPTWP

Edited by ASwordAhai

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1 hour ago, ASwordAhai said:

I'm not sure why people think all of these things are mutually exclusive. Is the question whether he was cruel and a bad person, or whether he was delusional in his fantasies? Because both can be true; they are in no way mutually exclusive. Basically, can't it be true that Aerion had some unknown reason for believing that he would become a dragon, and that he was a cruel and horrible person?

I mean other Targaryens are literally having dreams about dragons hatching at Whitewalls, so Aerion believing he would turn into a dragon is not entirely far fetched. 

Everyone would have thought walking into a funeral pyre with the dragon eggs was insane too, if it hadn't worked. 

It seems much more likely to me that Aerion wasn't mad in the true sense of the word; he wasn't insane and acting illogically. He was cruel and mean and a horrible person, but he was acting based on some logic that we are unaware of when he drank his cup of wildfire. One little flaw in his logic probably led to his delusions of grandeur, like Rhaegar when he first thought he was TPTWP

Well, mad in this universe translates into being a cruel, vicious psychopath. i.e. King Aerys II.

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42 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Well, mad in this universe translates into being a cruel, vicious psychopath. i.e. King Aerys II.

It does depend on your definition of madness. People that are seen as insane often do cruel things. There are others that aren't cruel at all, and still somewhat insane, like Rhaegal. 

There could still be some reason that many of the Targaryens were 'insane'. It's entirely possible that the behavior we see as insane actually has some sanity behind it, but we as readers are just not privy to the information that some Targaryen's and other characters know. Which is why i say that Aerion might not be mad if it's defined as insanity, despite being mad if its defined as cruelty; there is legitimate reason to believe Aerion had the right idea with his cup of wildfire, but just incorrectly thought it applied to him. 

Still a horrible human being regardless. 

Edited by ASwordAhai

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On 1/31/2018 at 9:51 AM, Angel Eyes said:

Well, mad in this universe translates into being a cruel, vicious psychopath. i.e. King Aerys II.

That's not true.

In The Hedge Knight, Rhaegel is described: "mad, meek, and sickly" and "gentle." In The Sword Sword, Rhaegel is described: "as meek as he is mad." In The World of Ice and Fire, Rhaegel is described: "a sweet boy touched by madness."

Maegor is repeatedly described as cruel, but I can't recall any suggestion that he was mad.

Aerys II just happened to be both cruel and mad.
 

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2 hours ago, Stuart Littlefinger said:

He was a high functioning sociopath 

Who was? Aerion? 

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On 1/30/2018 at 9:31 PM, John Suburbs said:

He was wound a little too tightly, IMO. Is there a clear line between mad and just a royal prick? Probably not.

I'm not a doctor or clinical therapist, but drinking a wildfire is probably on the "mad" side of the clear by such a large margin you can't see the line. 

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