Why did Hoster Tully throw his lot with the Rebels?

[Bael's Bastard]

51 minutes ago, Myrish Lace said:

Jon Arryn was loyal to the crown until the last possible moment. Even after the crown repeatedly and blatantly oversteps its bounds - Stark daughter, Stark heir, Lord Stark himself - Jon Arryn doesn't raise his banners (even as a defensive measure) or revolt. It's only when the crown starts picking on him - that's when Jon responds in kind.

For all the popularity of Southron Ambitions theory among the fans, no alleged conspirator - including Jon - behaves like there is any alliance or conspiracy during Robert's Rebellion.

41 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

He didn't call the banners even after his heir had been killed by Aerys. 

I think southron ambitions is a myth and that Barbrey Dustin will believe what she wants to believe to make herself feel better about being passed over for Catelyn.

To me and until the next books are out, the marriage alliances seem like something that fell into Rickard's lap. I think in his case, southron ambitions are a red herring as far as what he was really up to. As far as Robert goes, the proposal for Lyanna came from him, not from Rickard. And given the outside alliances that Hoster Tully was making, I think there's a good chance he was the one who approached Rickard on marrying Cat to Brandon.

It is said over and over again that Hoster did not trust old Walder Frey. Walder Frey married himself and his brood of children into houses from the riverlands, the Reach, the Stormlands, the Vale and he was closer to Lannister than he was to his own liege lord. That may be the whole reason Hoster thought it would be a good idea to have Lysa and Jaime married. Hoster looked to marry his brother to a Redwyne, refused to marry Catelyn or Lysa to a Brax (but Walder Frey sure did marry his daughter to one), had Catelyn betrothed to Brandon, was looking to marry Lysa to Jaime, joined the rebellion after he married Cat off to Ned and his problem child to Jon Arryn. And even after the wars were done and there was peace in the land, he looked to marry Edmure to Arianne Martell. 

I find Rickard and Maester Walys get a really bad rep over what Barbrey Dustin said. 

It is easy to forget that Jon Arryn's nephew/heir Elbert Arryn was among the companions of Brandon Stark that were executed by Aerys. Jon likely would have been executed had he been present in King's Landing with Rickard and the other fathers. In fact, as Elbert's father Ronnel died around the time of his birth, it is likely that Jon himself was summoned to court to answer the charge of treason, as the other fathers were summoned to answer the charge against their sons.

That he remained in the Eyrie with Robert and Ned might indicate he had a good idea that those being held were not going to receive a fair trial, and that Elbert was as good as dead.

I imagine word of the executions and the demand to send the heads of Robert and Ned came to Jon at the same time, perhaps in the same message, so not sure we can say there was a delay in raising the banners between the execution of his heir and the demand for their heads, or if we can determine whether Jon would have raised the banners had his heir been executed but Aerys had not called for the heads of Robert and Ned. 

I definitely agree that Rickard's southron ambitions had nothing to do with an anti-Targaryen alliance. Between Rickard's visit to King's Landing in 264 and his execution in 282, we have no indication that he had any reason to join a plot against House Targaryen, nor reason to believe that Steffon or Robert would have ever agreed to be part of an anti-Targaryen plot.

The only demonstrably anti-Targaryen marriage alliances occurred months into the war, without which the Tullys might have remained Targaryen loyalists.

[Corvo the Crow]

6 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I don't recall whether the actual ceremony occurred before or after the Battle of the Bells, but Hoster and his forces had to be brought in on the side of the rebels with the marriage pacts.

 

It was after that but I am unable to quote with the phone.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

3 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I imagine word of the executions and the demand to send the heads of Robert and Ned came to Jon at the same time, perhaps in the same message, so not sure we can say there was a delay in raising the banners between the execution of his heir and the demand for their heads, or if we can determine whether Jon would have raised the banners had his heir been executed but Aerys had not called for the heads of Robert and Ned.

That is true enough, but I always found it interesting the term Lysa uses to describe what Ned and Robert were to Jon. She does call them "his darling boys." I also know that this sounds full of resentment on Lysa's part because she was used as a bargaining chip.

It did not look like anyone was going to lift a finger after the murder of a the Warden of the North, his heir, I don't know many northmen and Brandon's companions.

Hoster called Brandon a gallant fool when he found out that he was riding to King's Landing.

So the whole southron ambitions/all these alliances that were being made were to topple House Targaryen speculations fall flat for me.

[John Suburbs]

5 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I don't think any of the great houses were truly plotting against House Targaryen, least of all House Tully. And IMO if there was a plot against King Aerys himself, it was between his son/heir Prince Rhaegar Targaryen and his Hand Lord Tywin Lannister.

In context, when Lord Hoster Tully went to King's Landing to seal the deal to wed his daughter Lysa to Tywin's son/heir Jaime Lannister, Tywin was still the Hand of the King, and according to Jaime, he was still either hoping for Elia to die so he could wed his beloved daughter Cersei to Rhaegar, or to settle for wedding her to Prince Viserys. In other words, Hoster went to King's Landing to seal a marriage agreement with a man who had been a loyal servant of the Targaryens for twenty years, and was still trying to marry with the Targaryens up to the day Aerys took his son/heir Jaime from him by naming him to the KG.

Far from plotting against House Targaryen, Lord Hoster and Lord Rickard Stark appear to me to have had ambitions to see their descendants marry with the Targaryens, and eventually to have Targaryen descendants of their own on the Iron Throne.

Lord Tywin was the Hand of the King, one of Aerys's oldest friends, and in the midst of trying to wed his daughter to a Targaryen prince. No matter how much the relationship between Aerys and Tywin had deteriorated, politically, Lord Hoster could hardly have married in with a family closer ties to House Targaryen. Tywin was credited by many with making Aerys's reign as prosperous as it was. And if Tywin succeeded in marrying Cersei to a Targaryen prince, the marriage ties with him would be all the more beneficial to House Tully.

Lord Robert Baratheon was the son of Steffon Baratheon, Aerys's cousin, his other oldest friend, the one whom Aerys had entrusted to find a bride for Prince Rhaegar, and whose relationship with the king does not appear to have ever turned sour. Lord Rickard could hardly have married in with a family closer to House Targaryen. Steffon had a Targaryen mother, and Robert a Targaryen grandmother. Had Steffon had a daughter, she would have been a likely match for Rhaegar. As it is, the descendants of Robert and Lyanna would have had a good chance at royal marriages. Robert was still a loyal servant of House Targaryen at Harrenhal, when Lord Rickard had long betrothed Lyanna to him, and when Rhaegar's crowning Lyanna of QOLAB is said to have turned Robert against Rhaegar, but not necessarily House Targaryen.

I think if we take an honest look at things in context, there was no plot against House Targaryen months or years in the making. In fact, the bonds at the heart of the rebellion were the father/son bonds between Jon Arryn and Robert/Ned, and the brother/brother bonds formed between Robert and Ned for a decade before Aerys calling for Jon to behead Robert and Ned. These were not marriage or blood ties, and there is no reason to believe Jon, Rickard, or Steffon had any anti-Targaryen feelings or motivations when the fosterings were arranged way back in 271.

All true. But the fact remains that throughout the history of the realm, both before the dragons and after, there is little to no intermarriage between the kingdoms/great houses. They almost always marry to their own bannermen, and occasionally the Targs reach past the liege house and marry into one of their vassals -- which is not only an insult but weakens them politically. Then suddenly, we have Tully, Stark, Arryn, Baratheon and Lannister all planning marriages of one sort or another. Why?

If these houses were to form the kind of power-bloc that the intermarriages between the Tyrells, Hightowers and Redwynes has produced (there's a reason why the Reach has been the hegemon on the continent for millennia), this would not only be a threat to the Targaryens, but to the Tryells-Hightowers-Redwynes as well.

[Tygett Lannister]

If he were to oppose rebels he would also be surrounded by them, Vale to the East, North to the North and possibly Lannisters from the West.

[Ylath's Snout]

10 minutes ago, Tygett Lannister said:

possibly Lannisters from the West.

Well Tywin had been Aerys hand up til about a year ago at that point and Jaime was a "honored member of the King's Guard" soo Lannister's throwing down one way or another wasn't a given.

Still good point.

[Bael's Bastard]

16 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

All true. But the fact remains that throughout the history of the realm, both before the dragons and after, there is little to no intermarriage between the kingdoms/great houses. They almost always marry to their own bannermen, and occasionally the Targs reach past the liege house and marry into one of their vassals -- which is not only an insult but weakens them politically. Then suddenly, we have Tully, Stark, Arryn, Baratheon and Lannister all planning marriages of one sort or another. Why?

If these houses were to form the kind of power-bloc that the intermarriages between the Tyrells, Hightowers and Redwynes has produced (there's a reason why the Reach has been the hegemon on the continent for millennia), this would not only be a threat to the Targaryens, but to the Tryells-Hightowers-Redwynes as well.

Lord Tywin Lannister first told Cersei of his plan to wed her to Prince Rhaegar Targaryen around 272-273, made his big pitch to Aerys in 276, and was still trying to wed her to a Targaryen prince as late as 280-281, at the same time that he was bringing Hoster Tully to King's Landing to finalize a match between his heir Jaime and Lysa.

That alone should put to rest the idea that the pacts or negotiations made by Tywin or Hoster prior to Harrenhal were part of any plot against House Targaryen. Tywin was still trying to wed the dragons, and Hoster was trying to wed the guy that was trying to wed the dragons.

And where are the Baratheons and Arryns in all this? Stannis and Jon were both adults and free to wed, Tywin and Hoster both had free daughters, and yet Tywin was trying to wed his to a Targaryen and Hoster was trying to wed his to a Lannister.

The only marriage tie between the families that would lead the rebellion, Arryn, Baratheon, and Stark, was the betrothal between Lord Robert and Lyanna, a betrothal Robert made out of love, not some plot. The ties at the heart of the rebellion were not by marriage or blood, but the bonds formed between Jon, Robert, and Ned over the course of a decade.

As far as evidence goes, I think evidence shows Lord Hoster did not join an anti-Targaryen plot until he wed his daughters to Ned and Jon well into the war, and Lord Tywin did not join an anti-Targaryen plot until he sacked King's Landing.

I have no doubt that Aerys viewed or eventually came to view the great lords as plotting against him, but I see no evidence that they actually were, or that any of the betrothals negotiated or made leading up to Harrenhal were made as part of any anti-Targaryen plots.

I think it is much more plausible that Tywin, Rickard, and Hoster all eyed marriages that they believed might eventually bring them closer to the Iron Throne, that Robert eyed a marriage for love, and that Jon was like a father to Ned and Robert. That these families ultimately took part in the rebellion against House Targaryen does not mean that these ties or the ties negotiated were done with that intention.

[Bael's Bastard]

Lord Rickard was also old enough to know that House Baratheon was the last great house to take a Targaryen princess, and that before Egg's children broke their betrothals, the eldest heirs had been betrothed to Baratheon and Tully daughters.

As for it being insulting for Targaryens to marry vassals of other regions, let's look at the last century or so of House Stark:

- Jocelyn Stark (daughter of Lord Willam, sister of Lord Edwyle, aunt of Lord Rickard) married a Royce of the Vale
- Brenda Stark (sister-in-law of Lord Rickard) married a Rogers of the Stormlands
- Lord Willam Stark (son of Lord Beron) married a Blackwood of the Riverlands
- Lord Beron Stark (grandson of Lord Cregan) married a Royce of the Vale
- Lord Cregan married a Blackwood of the Riverlands

Marriages to other northern houses are certainly common, but marriages to vassals of other great houses do happen, and I am sure there are stories behind why those marriages happened.

For instance, Willam's marriage seems like it would be contemporary with Egg's marriage to Betha, and Cregan's was tied into agreements made during/after the Dance.

[John Suburbs]

10 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Lord Tywin Lannister first told Cersei of his plan to wed her to Prince Rhaegar Targaryen around 272-273, made his big pitch to Aerys in 276, and was still trying to wed her to a Targaryen prince as late as 280-281, at the same time that he was bringing Hoster Tully to King's Landing to finalize a match between his heir Jaime and Lysa.

That alone should put to rest the idea that the pacts or negotiations made by Tywin or Hoster prior to Harrenhal were part of any plot against House Targaryen. Tywin was still trying to wed the dragons, and Hoster was trying to wed the guy that was trying to wed the dragons.

And where are the Baratheons and Arryns in all this? Stannis and Jon were both adults and free to wed, Tywin and Hoster both had free daughters, and yet Tywin was trying to wed his to a Targaryen and Hoster was trying to wed his to a Lannister.

The only marriage tie between the families that would lead the rebellion, Arryn, Baratheon, and Stark, was the betrothal between Lord Robert and Lyanna, a betrothal Robert made out of love, not some plot. The ties at the heart of the rebellion were not by marriage or blood, but the bonds formed between Jon, Robert, and Ned over the course of a decade.

As far as evidence goes, I think evidence shows Lord Hoster did not join an anti-Targaryen plot until he wed his daughters to Ned and Jon well into the war, and Lord Tywin did not join an anti-Targaryen plot until he sacked King's Landing.

I have no doubt that Aerys viewed or eventually came to view the great lords as plotting against him, but I see no evidence that they actually were, or that any of the betrothals negotiated or made leading up to Harrenhal were made as part of any anti-Targaryen plots.

I think it is much more plausible that Tywin, Rickard, and Hoster all eyed marriages that they believed might eventually bring them closer to the Iron Throne, that Robert eyed a marriage for love, and that Jon was like a father to Ned and Robert. That these families ultimately took part in the rebellion against House Targaryen does not mean that these ties or the ties negotiated were done with that intention.

All true, but I think it goes a little too far to say that all of this intermarriage was an "anti-Targaryen plot." Rather, it is a sign that the great houses are no longer thinking about shoring up their own internal alliances through marriage but are now seeing how they can unite among themselves to create a bulwark against the excesses of the Iron Throne. Sure, they all want to marry into the royal family, but at the same time they recognize that, like the Tyrell-Redwyne-Hightower bloc, they stand a better chance of getting their way as a united front rather than individual houses. This thinking would have started during Aegon V, which not only gave more rights to smallfolk but also raised bannermen to higher status through marriage.

This, in turn, would have fed Aerys' paranoia as these arrangement started to come to fruition, with Varys undoubtedly whispering in his ear about the threat posed by a Stark-Tully-Baratheon union. So in answer to the OP's original question, "Why did Hoster Tully throw his lot with the rebels?" my answer is: because he has been trying to form a power bloc to counter the power of the IT, and this has been a Tully objective for many years. It only morphed into full anti-Targaryenism once the rebellion had started. And even then, Robert himself did not proclaim his intention to take the crown until after the Trident, so that didn't even become the focus of the rebellion until well after the Tullys signed on.

[John Suburbs]

11 minutes ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Lord Rickard was also old enough to know that House Baratheon was the last great house to take a Targaryen princess, and that before Egg's children broke their betrothals, the eldest heirs had been betrothed to Baratheon and Tully daughters.

As for it being insulting for Targaryens to marry vassals of other regions, let's look at the last century or so of House Stark:

- Jocelyn Stark (daughter of Lord Willam, sister of Lord Edwyle, aunt of Lord Rickard) married a Royce of the Vale
- Brenda Stark (sister-in-law of Lord Rickard) married a Rogers of the Stormlands
- Lord Willam Stark (son of Lord Beron) married a Blackwood of the Riverlands
- Lord Beron Stark (grandson of Lord Cregan) married a Royce of the Vale
- Lord Cregan married a Blackwood of the Riverlands

Marriages to other northern houses are certainly common, but marriages to vassals of other great houses do happen, and I am sure there are stories behind why those marriages happened.

For instance, Willam's marriage seems like it would be contemporary with Egg's marriage to Betha, and Cregan's was tied into agreements made during/after the Dance.

Note, however, that Royce and Blackwood are First Men houses, and Rogers likely is due to their sigil full of prancing unicorns. As far as we know, before Ned and Cat, the only other Andal marriages were a pair of Starks who took Manderly brides, but this was long after they became bannermen to the Winterfell.

There is also a big difference between one house or kingdom marrying into someone's lesser house vs. the king of all seven kingdoms doing this. In the former situation there is little political gain or loss for either the vassal or liege because the marriage crosses boundaries. In the latter, the vassal immediately gains an edge over their liege because they now occupy a higher station in the same political hierarchy.

[Bael's Bastard]

20 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

All true, but I think it goes a little too far to say that all of this intermarriage was an "anti-Targaryen plot." Rather, it is a sign that the great houses are no longer thinking about shoring up their own internal alliances through marriage but are now seeing how they can unite among themselves to create a bulwark against the excesses of the Iron Throne. Sure, they all want to marry into the royal family, but at the same time they recognize that, like the Tyrell-Redwyne-Hightower bloc, they stand a better chance of getting their way as a united front rather than individual houses. This thinking would have started during Aegon V, which not only gave more rights to smallfolk but also raised bannermen to higher status through marriage.

This, in turn, would have fed Aerys' paranoia as these arrangement started to come to fruition, with Varys undoubtedly whispering in his ear about the threat posed by a Stark-Tully-Baratheon union. So in answer to the OP's original question, "Why did Hoster Tully throw his lot with the rebels?" my answer is: because he has been trying to form a power bloc to counter the power of the IT, and this has been a Tully objective for many years. It only morphed into full anti-Targaryenism once the rebellion had started. And even then, Robert himself did not proclaim his intention to take the crown until after the Trident, so that didn't even become the focus of the rebellion until well after the Tullys signed on.

I just don't see evidence that such motivations existed in the minds of anyone except Aerys, though I absolutely agree that he could/would have suspected such motivations. But let's not forget that Aerys's suspicions were for the most part direction against Lord Tywin Lannister and his own son/heir Prince Rhaegar. I wouldn't even be surprised if Prince Rhaegar's crowning of Lyanna QOLAB at Harrenhal was largely or entirely responsible for turning Aerys's suspicions against House Stark.

Lord Jon Arryn
- like a father to Lord Robert Baratheon
- like a father to Eddard Stark
- no known betrothals or negotiations with the other great houses

Lord Steffon Baratheon
- fostered Robert (heir) with Lord Jon Arryn
- no known betrothals or negotiations to the other great houses for his 16 and 15 year old sons Robert and Stannis

Lord Robert Baratheon
- like a son to Lord Jon Arryn
- betrothed himself to Lyanna Stark
- no other known betrothals or negotiations to the other great houses for his 15 year old brother/heir Stannis

Lord Rickard Stark
- fostered Eddard with Lord Jon Arryn
- betrothed Brandon Stark (heir) to Catelyn Tully
- betrothed Lyanna Stark to Lord Robert Baratheon
- no other known betrothals or negotiations to the other great houses for his 20 year old son Eddard

Lord Hoster Tully
- wished to betroth Brynden to Bethany Redwyne
- betrothed Catelyn to Brandon Stark (heir)
- negotiated to betroth Lysa to Jaime Lannister (heir)

Lord Tywin Lannister
- wished to betroth Cersei to Prince Rhaegar Targaryen (heir to the Iron Throne) or Prince Viserys Targaryen
- negotiated to betroth Jaime (heir) to Lysa Tully

Houses Baratheon and Lannister were still very close to the Iron Throne at the time, and the ties forged or attempted to be forged with them could hardly have been expected to be beneficial to an attempt to check the powers of the Iron Throne.

For Lord Rickard and Lord Hoster to pursue betrothals with Houses Baratheon and Lannister indicates more an attempt to get closer to the Iron Throne than an attempt to check the Iron Throne, and hardly makes sense if the betrothal between them had such a motivation.

And there is an almost complete lack of attempted ties with Houses Arryn and Baratheon, who had a number of marriageable people, other than Lord Robert's betrothal to Lyanna, whom he was in love with.

The greatest ties developed between any of these houses were between Lord Jon Arryn, Robert Baratheon, and Eddard Stark, as a result of fosterings beginning in 271, long before any of them had any reason to worry about the Iron Throne.

For the most part, Aegon V attempted to betroth his children to great houses, with the exception of Prince Daeron's betrothal to House Redwyne

- Prince Duncan was betrothed to a daughter of Lord Lyonel Baratheon
- Prince Jaehaerys was betrothed to Celia Tully
- Princess Shaera was betrothed to Luthor Tyrell
- Prince Daeron was betrothed to Olenna Redwyne

And they did not break their betrothals for bannermen.

- Prince Duncan married Jenny of Oldstones
- Prince Jaehaerys and Princeess Shaera married each other
- Prince Daeron did not marry
- Princess Rhaelle was eventually married off to Ormund Baratheon to make up for Prince Duncan's broken betrothal

[John Suburbs]

1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I just don't see evidence that such motivations existed in the minds of anyone except Aerys, though I absolutely agree that he could/would have suspected such motivations. But let's not forget that Aerys's suspicions were for the most part direction against Lord Tywin Lannister and his own son/heir Prince Rhaegar. I wouldn't even be surprised if Prince Rhaegar's crowning of Lyanna QOLAB at Harrenhal was largely or entirely responsible for turning Aerys's suspicions against House Stark.

Lord Jon Arryn
- like a father to Lord Robert Baratheon
- like a father to Eddard Stark
- no known betrothals or negotiations with the other great houses

Lord Steffon Baratheon
- fostered Robert (heir) with Lord Jon Arryn
- no known betrothals or negotiations to the other great houses for his 16 and 15 year old sons Robert and Stannis

Lord Robert Baratheon
- like a son to Lord Jon Arryn
- betrothed himself to Lyanna Stark
- no other known betrothals or negotiations to the other great houses for his 15 year old brother/heir Stannis

Lord Rickard Stark
- fostered Eddard with Lord Jon Arryn
- betrothed Brandon Stark (heir) to Catelyn Tully
- betrothed Lyanna Stark to Lord Robert Baratheon
- no other known betrothals or negotiations to the other great houses for his 20 year old son Eddard

Lord Hoster Tully
- wished to betroth Brynden to Bethany Redwyne
- betrothed Catelyn to Brandon Stark (heir)
- negotiated to betroth Lysa to Jaime Lannister (heir)

Lord Tywin Lannister
- wished to betroth Cersei to Prince Rhaegar Targaryen (heir to the Iron Throne) or Prince Viserys Targaryen
- negotiated to betroth Jaime (heir) to Lysa Tully

Houses Baratheon and Lannister were still very close to the Iron Throne at the time, and the ties forged or attempted to be forged with them could hardly have been expected to be beneficial to an attempt to check the powers of the Iron Throne.

For Lord Rickard and Lord Hoster to pursue betrothals with Houses Baratheon and Lannister indicates more an attempt to get closer to the Iron Throne than an attempt to check the Iron Throne, and hardly makes sense if the betrothal between them had such a motivation.

And there is an almost complete lack of attempted ties with Houses Arryn and Baratheon, who had a number of marriageable people, other than Lord Robert's betrothal to Lyanna, whom he was in love with.

The greatest ties developed between any of these houses were between Lord Jon Arryn, Robert Baratheon, and Eddard Stark, as a result of fosterings beginning in 271, long before any of them had any reason to worry about the Iron Throne.

For the most part, Aegon V attempted to betroth his children to great houses, with the exception of Prince Daeron's betrothal to House Redwyne

- Prince Duncan was betrothed to a daughter of Lord Lyonel Baratheon
- Prince Jaehaerys was betrothed to Celia Tully
- Princess Shaera was betrothed to Luthor Tyrell
- Prince Daeron was betrothed to Olenna Redwyne

And they did not break their betrothals for bannermen.

- Prince Duncan married Jenny of Oldstones
- Prince Jaehaerys and Princeess Shaera married each other
- Prince Daeron did not marry
- Princess Rhaelle was eventually married off to Ormund Baratheon to make up for Prince Duncan's broken betrothal

I would look at your list again and wonder if it was common practice for the great houses to foster their sons to one another rather than to their own bannermen. This kind of thing produces just as much linkage between houses as a marriage and could easily be seen as the top lords forging closer political ties that would be able to counter the Iron Throne if push came to shove. Again, I'm not saying that all of this maneuvering was expressly intended to one day overthrow the Targaryens, just that it shifts the balance of power in the realm away from the IT, and this would certainly be noticed by the Targs as well as the leading lords.

If Yandel is any guide, there is evidence that the lords were very disquieted during the reign of Aegon V. His granting of rights to smallfolk, limited as they were, was seen as interference with the lord's right to rule his own lands and people. His attempts at placating this unrest by arranging marriages with the great houses ended in disaster, leading to outright revolt by Lord Lyonel. Regardless of whether anyone thought Aegon was a good king or a bad king, the fact remains that over-dependence on the Targaryens for their future success is and always will be an uncertain prospect -- subject to the whims of the king and/or his sons/daughters. So in order to create a more certain world for themselves, these leading lords sought to shore up their own common strengths in ways that could be counted upon more reliably -- blood ties and fostering. And as the situation devolved under Aerys, these alliances proved crucial to the fall of the dynasty.

This is pretty much how all dynasties/empires come to an end: the final blow is struck from the outside but the internal weakening began long before, sometimes centuries.

[Ylath's Snout]

1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

For the most part, Aegon V attempted to betroth his children to great houses, with the exception of Prince Daeron's betrothal to House Redwyne

- Prince Duncan was betrothed to a daughter of Lord Lyonel Baratheon
- Prince Jaehaerys was betrothed to Celia Tully
- Princess Shaera was betrothed to Luthor Tyrell
- Prince Daeron was betrothed to Olenna Redwyne

Imagine if all those houses had been solidly in the Targ camp when Rhaegar "done goofed". The Starks would have been shit out of luck.