Alex Gu Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 What if robb stark was smarter and keep the twins under a northern garrison still he married into frey to ensure that freys stayed loyal because of two reasons .the frey strength and the twins locations made it vital that it remained loyal to north since enemy/hostile freys could cut off the northern army or as I like to call it the northern expeditionary force in the riverlands from the north or at least make it difficult for the northern army to retreat /march back north and weaken the war effort against gangbusters by drawing support and troops away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Can you clarify what you mean a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Lack of intelligence was not Robb's big problem. That's Jon's and Sansa's problem. For Robb, it was his lack of self discipline. He was also a hypocrite. The young wolf was full of hubris. But Robb was still reasonably smart. It's his arrogance and lack of self discipline that got him killed. The Twins was vital. Its location had high strategic value and the Freys had more resources than any other ally available to Robb's cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Gu Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Lack of intelligence was not Robb's big problem. That's Jon's and Sansa's problem. For Robb, it was his lack of self discipline. He was also a hypocrite. The young wolf was full of hubris. But Robb was still reasonably smart. It's his arrogance and lack of self discipline that got him killed. The Twins was vital. Its location had high strategic value and the Freys had more resources than any other ally available to Robb's cause. How do you believe robb should had handled the frey to ensure that even if they try to betray or pull out of war they failed and he keep control of twins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Alex Gu said: How do you believe robb should had handled the frey to ensure that even if they try to betray or pull out of war they failed and he keep control of twins? Robb should have honored his oaths to the Freys. I may be mistaken on this but I thought Robb left a few men at The Twins at Catelyn's suggestion. Not enough to take control of The Twins but I don't think Walder would have stood to have enough northmen around his castle to threaten his family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Robb should have honored his oaths to the Freys. I may be mistaken on this but I thought Robb left a few men at The Twins at Catelyn's suggestion. Not enough to take control of The Twins but I don't think Walder would have stood to have enough northmen around his castle to threaten his family. He left 400 men there under Tallhart. The only real thing he could have done was say "Do not leave the Twins without my explicit orders" since Roose ordered them down to Duskendale. However that might sow some discord and frankly he had no reason to issue that kind of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Ah, not at all enough to put the fear in Lord Walder. But then it would have been a gross insult as well as inefficient to leave a large force behind to look over your future father in law's castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Yeah the Twins are about as impregnable as any non LP castle in the realm. 800 men is more than enough but it does give Walder more reason to keep faith and it makes him safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Alex Gu said: What if robb stark was smarter and keep the twins under a northern garrison still he married into frey to ensure that freys stayed loyal he did, well his mother did. there was a 400 Northern garrison. 1 hour ago, Alex Gu said: How do you believe robb should had handled the frey to ensure that even if they try to betray or pull out of war they failed and he keep control of twins? he was never going to fully control the Twins, there is no scenario were Walder, or any lord with commonsense, would allow a larger garrison of troops under his own roof that were not loyal to him. The best Robb/Cat could hope for is an equal size, but the Freys were not about to hand over the Twins to appease a desperate Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said: He left 400 men there under Tallhart. The only real thing he could have done was say "Do not leave the Twins without my explicit orders" since Roose ordered them down to Duskendale. However that might sow some discord and frankly he had no reason to issue that kind of order. No. Edmured ordered them to Roose. Duskendale is long after the garrison pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: No. Edmured ordered them to Roose. Duskendale is long after the garrison pulled. Ah I had forgotten about that. Roose ordering them to DD is less egregious in that light but sentiment with Robb's hypothetical order still exists. It just shows distrust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: No. Edmured ordered them to Roose. Duskendale is long after the garrison pulled. Another misstep by Edmure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Ah I had forgotten about that. Roose ordering them to DD is less egregious in that light but sentiment with Robb's hypothetical order still exists. It just shows distrust Robb's army clearly lacked a command structure. Edmure shouldn't have been able to give an order that is contradicting with Robb's and Tallhart shouldn't have followed through.Edmure is not his liege nor is he the overall commander for Robb's forces in RL. Come to think of it, it is rathet disorganized; Tallhart is under Robb, Walder is under no one(won't move his garrison) despite being in the same castle. Roose has the Frey and Northman infantry, Edmurr has the rest of the Riverman but they are actually on their own for a while since he lets them go. Roose attacks to Harrenhal without orders, Tallhart comes to his aid under unauthorized orders, Duskendale, a very idiotic move happens without any questioning... it's a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Robb's army clearly lacked a command structure. Edmure shouldn't have been able to give an order that is contradicting with Robb's and Tallhart shouldn't have followed through.Edmure is not his liege nor is he the overall commander for Robb's forces in RL. Come to think of it, it is rathet disorganized; Tallhart is under Robb, Walder is under no one(won't move his garrison) despite being in the same castle. Roose has the Frey and Northman infantry, Edmurr has the rest of the Riverman but they are actually on their own for a while since he lets them go. Roose attacks to Harrenhal without orders, Tallhart comes to his aid under unauthorized orders, Duskendale, a very idiotic move happens without any questioning... it's a mess. Yep. Given all the communication that went back and forth between Robb, Roose, RR, and the Twins, you'd think Robb would have been a bit more involved in the others strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: Yep. Given all the communication that went back and forth between Robb, Roose, RR, and the Twins, you'd think Robb would have been a bit more involved in the others strategy. Treating Edmure like a kid doesn’t help matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said: Treating Edmure like a kid doesn’t help matters. That's post Robb going west right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Just now, Universal Sword Donor said: That's post Robb going west right? Not quite sure when, per se, but Robb didn’t tell him his plan and Edmure impulsively attacked Tywin, which enabled him to aid those in King’s Landing at Blackwater and loaned some other men to Roose Bolton, who was planning to betray Robb and deliberately wasted them at Duskendale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Just now, Angel Eyes said: Not quite sure when, per se, but Robb didn’t tell him his plan and Edmure impulsively attacked Tywin, which enabled him to aid those in King’s Landing at Blackwater and loaned some other men to Roose Bolton, who was planning to betray Robb and deliberately wasted them at Duskendale. Yeah that's basically right in the aftermath of Robb heading west. His instructions should have been better re Edmure's objective. On that I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: Roose attacks to Harrenhal without orders, Tallhart comes to his aid under unauthorized orders, Duskendale, a very idiotic move happens without any questioning... it's a mess. Edmure send Roose to take the castle. Roose was just acting as was ordered him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 All Robb had to do was decide to honor his marriage pact. Even after he slept with Jeyne he could've just left it as a one night stand without any serious consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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