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btfu806

Game of Thrones deaths won't match books, George R.R. Martin says

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6 hours ago, btfu806 said:

Don't even get me started on this. Stannis would never go out that way. I am sorry. I chalk that up to the whole D&D pissed off women so they were trying to make them bad-ass. Thing that was going on...

On top of that, I was re watching season 4 episode 10 last night when Brianne and The Hound fight. That whole thing was stupid too.

Preston on YouTube has a whole thing about it. I have read a few other theories on it too. No idea who was first. But when they really break it down. It makes sense when you see all the clues. Or well, makes sense to me...

That's funny because I'm rewatching the whole show and just finished s4 a few days ago - yeah the Brienne/Hound clash was pretty bad.

Sometimes it feels like D&D treat ASOIAF like an anagram: here's a bunch of characters and plot lines. Mix them around and see what you can make out of them that you can sell to the studios and their advertisers.

6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

It wasn’t even that neat. D&D just don’t like Stannis and turned Sansa into a plot device for Theon.

They killed Stannis his wife and daughter and swept away their plot line in one episode. Doesn't get much neater than that.

 

5 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Sacrificing his sweet daughter Shireen by burning her alive on a stake was so utterly cruel and despicable, so devoid of any last humane core, just blinded by stupid faith in Melisandre. Who on earth can like a Stannis like in that scene?

No, he is not a real villain. He is a victim to religious blindedness, to a lack of reason, a lack of love to his daughter. He followed the wrong person.

Shireen is another character I wonder about: will she really die, or is that D&D wrapping up a plot line?

 

4 hours ago, KingMudd said:

I think Rickon will survive in the books and that Jon has taken his storyline in the show.

I really hope you are right. Rickon had a wildness to him that sounded a lot like Ned's older brother Brandon. I wanted to see him grow up and avenge his family.

4 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

They kinda laid the foundation for it already in season 4(?) when Bran told the ghost story about a cook who was punished by the gods for killing a guests son and baking him into a pie which he proceeded to feed the guest with. He wasn't punished for murder, but for breaking guest right. 

I can see this happening in the books as well.

You're talking about the story of the Rat Cook? That's in Storm of Swords, Bran 4, about 50 pages after the Red Wedding . . .

1 hour ago, btfu806 said:

Yeah I have no idea about Rickon. I still think he dies but not in the same way.

 

I don't remember that story at all. Ugh I have to rewatch some things obviously. And Frey pie theory in the books would have already happened. At Ramsey's wedding. So it could happen again like it did in the show. Be weird if it happened twice but who knows, wouldn't be the first time something has happened multiple times. 

I think there's a pretty strong suggestion in the books that Wyman Manderly has had three Freys killed as vengeance for his son Wendel and serves them to Boltons & Freys at WF.

Edited by honeyed chicken

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8 minutes ago, honeyed chicken said:

I think there's a pretty strong suggestion in the books that Wyman Manderly has had three Freys killed as vengeance for his son Wendel and serves them to Boltons & Freys at WF.

yeahhh I was trying to remember off the top of my head. I kinda remember someone from the north but not all the details, thanks!

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17 hours ago, honeyed chicken said:

Shireen is another character I wonder about: will she really die, or is that D&D wrapping up a plot line?

As far as it is known this is supposed to be one of the "shocking twists" revealed by GRRM to DD. So I expect this to be both book and show. The other one was the death and fate of Hodor and the explanation of his name. This must be book and show alike.

 

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6 hours ago, Kajjo said:

As far as it is known this is supposed to be one of the "shocking twists" revealed by GRRM to DD. So I expect this to be both book and show. The other one was the death and fate of Hodor and the explanation of his name. This must be book and show alike.

 

Ah. Ok. I've never paid enough attention to "thus spake martin' - or whatever that thread is called.

 

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On 8/20/2018 at 9:13 PM, honeyed chicken said:

Shireen is another character I wonder about: will she really die, or is that D&D wrapping up a plot line?

Most likely she will die in the books. Her character is kinda being set up for it in ADWD. But I very highly doubt Stannis will do the burning (as it was represented in the show). Maybe GRRM spends a lot of TWOW getting him to that point, but it's going to take a LONG time, especially since in the end of the book Stannis wants her to be named ruler if he passes away. Obviously he is not close to burning her yet (if that's the direction he goes).

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In a way you could say that the books and tv shows are alternative versions of whats happening on Westeros. 

I don`t know like the books are universe one and the tv show are universe two.

 

 

Personally i have given up on the books because frankly i don`t think he will finish them. 

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@btfu806 I'm also Team Stannis and would lend my voice to your arguments, but I'm too exhausted to get into another defense of Stannis, so I'll just say I agree with 98% of what you've written and keep fighting the good fight.  No way Stannis burns Shireen in the books.  I don't think there is any way he will even consent to it... ever.  I think our man is going to die in battle against the white walkers, and this will be the impetus for Jon to go south to rally Daenerys (who at that time will be fighting Aegon and the Lannisters/Greyjoys) to come north to save the kingdom.

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54 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

@btfu806 I'm also Team Stannis and would lend my voice to your arguments, but I'm too exhausted to get into another defense of Stannis, so I'll just say I agree with 98% of what you've written and keep fighting the good fight.  No way Stannis burns Shireen in the books.  I don't think there is any way he will even consent to it... ever.  I think our man is going to die in battle against the white walkers, and this will be the impetus for Jon to go south to rally Daenerys (who at that time will be fighting Aegon and the Lannisters/Greyjoys) to come north to save the kingdom.

Hahaha appreciate the note. I get it, I get exhausted arguing for Stannis as well. I guess we could take turns... make it easier haha.

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On 8/23/2018 at 8:36 AM, btfu806 said:

Hahaha appreciate the note. I get it, I get exhausted arguing for Stannis as well. I guess we could take turns... make it easier haha.

Its hard to defend the guy when the show version kills his daughter and most assume he will do so in the books as well.

Personally I think he will do it in the books and the most important defense of Stannis is not a defense of his actions and more just that he is a great character. And he will be with his tragic ending. A man who strived to perform his duty and be a good king who was destroyed by his internal stuggle. 

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15 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Its hard to defend the guy when the show version kills his daughter and most assume he will do so in the books as well.

Personally I think he will do it in the books and the most important defense of Stannis is not a defense of his actions and more just that he is a great character. And he will be with his tragic ending. A man who strived to perform his duty and be a good king who was destroyed by his internal stuggle. 

I guess we will see what happens if/when the books come out. But I would be willing to put money on that Stannis doesn't burn his daughter or at the very least, doesn't know of the burning of his daughter. 

My biggest problem has always been the writers portrayal of him vs how he is in the books. I get how you could not like the guy from the show's interpretation of him.

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5 hours ago, btfu806 said:

I guess we will see what happens if/when the books come out. But I would be willing to put money on that Stannis doesn't burn his daughter or at the very least, doesn't know of the burning of his daughter. 

My biggest problem has always been the writers portrayal of him vs how he is in the books. I get how you could not like the guy from the show's interpretation of him.

if he isn't the one to burn her, then burning her is pointless

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16 hours ago, SecretWeapon said:

if he isn't the one to burn her, then burning her is pointless

If they burn her to bring back who they believe is a dead Stannis but instead brings back Jon instead (King's blood to bring back a king, type thing). Then there would be a very good reason. Figure Jon has to come back somehow, that makes sense to me.

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17 hours ago, SecretWeapon said:

if he isn't the one to burn her, then burning her is pointless

Burning her in the show was pointless. Selyse hanged herself, most of Stannis' army deserted, Melisandre deserted him, and he finally gets decapitated by Brienne, who abandoned Sansa to torture just so she could get a crack at killing Stannis.

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On 8/20/2018 at 10:24 PM, KingMudd said:

I think Rickon will survive in the books and that Jon has taken his storyline in the show.

I hope so 'cause I can' t see Jon far from the Wall. POV  characters are chosen by Martin with a specific method in order to grant a storyteller in each of the main places of the novels. He said that in the next book there won't be new POVs so if Jon is really going to leave it to become king in the North, who will remain there to tell us what happens in the far North? Samwell has a lot to do before he could become a maester and return to the Wall, Melisandre is at the Wall but after she will have resurrected Jon (we don't know it, but is very plausible) I think she will be useless and she isn't at all the right character to tell us about the Wall, so it's possible she will leave. She will be the teller until Jon's resurrection, but after that only Jon could be it. Rickon will get a big role in the Bolton's defeat and he may become the King in the North. The only thing that bothers me is that will by Robb Stark in the Neck...

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1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Burning her in the show was pointless. Selyse hanged herself, most of Stannis' army deserted, Melisandre deserted him, and he finally gets decapitated by Brienne, who abandoned Sansa to torture just so she could get a crack at killing Stannis.

Agree with this a million percent. 

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4 minutes ago, Littlefinger's crewman said:

I hope so 'cause I can' t see Jon far from the Wall. POV  characters are chosen by Martin with a specific method in order to grant a storyteller in each of the main places of the novels. He said that in the next book there won't be new POVs so if Jon is really going to leave it to become king in the North, who will remain there to tell us what happens in the far North? Samwell has a lot to do before he could become a maester and return to the Wall, Melisandre is at the Wall but after she will have resurrected Jon (we don't know it, but is very plausible) I think she will be useless and she isn't at all the right character to tell us about the Wall, so it's possible she will leave. She will be the teller until Jon's resurrection, but after that only Jon could be it. Rickon will get a big role in the Bolton's defeat and he may become the King in the North. The only thing that bothers me is that will by Robb Stark in the Neck...

In my own personal opinion, Jon has taken on so many roles in the show it's hard to see what he will be or won't be in the books. I think he took on fAegon and Rikon's stories. It's possible he may have taken on others (and it makes sense) but I have a hard time seeing what his role will be in the books. Since I think in the 6th book, his main job is just getting back to life... ha. Now I know he is the "main hero" most likely of the story. But as far as the majority of his decisions and what he does in the show, I have no idea how it will go in the books. Kinda excited for it even though I am not a big Jon Snow fan.

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7 hours ago, btfu806 said:

In my own personal opinion, Jon has taken on so many roles in the show it's hard to see what he will be or won't be in the books. I think he took on fAegon and Rikon's stories. It's possible he may have taken on others (and it makes sense) but I have a hard time seeing what his role will be in the books. Since I think in the 6th book, his main job is just getting back to life... ha. Now I know he is the "main hero" most likely of the story. But as far as the majority of his decisions and what he does in the show, I have no idea how it will go in the books. Kinda excited for it even though I am not a big Jon Snow fan.

Of course I think Jon will get to resurrect only at the end of TWOW. When you say that the show Jon has taken up Aegon's storyline, are you saying that Aegon will marry Dany and sit on the Iron Throne for a while? Be aware of what you say, I'm a big fan of Aegon and the Illyrio's conspiracy stuff

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12 hours ago, btfu806 said:

If they burn her to bring back who they believe is a dead Stannis but instead brings back Jon instead (King's blood to bring back a king, type thing). Then there would be a very good reason. Figure Jon has to come back somehow, that makes sense to me.

 

11 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Burning her in the show was pointless. Selyse hanged herself, most of Stannis' army deserted, Melisandre deserted him, and he finally gets decapitated by Brienne, who abandoned Sansa to torture just so she could get a crack at killing Stannis.

i'm not talking literally plot-wise, but narrative-wise Selyse or Melisandre deciding to burn her does nothing. Selyse is already unlikeable as she is and honestly, not much changes about Melisandre if she simply convinces Selyse to do it. For Stannis is a culmination of his entire narrative of "Duty"

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15 hours ago, Littlefinger's crewman said:

Of course I think Jon will get to resurrect only at the end of TWOW. When you say that the show Jon has taken up Aegon's storyline, are you saying that Aegon will marry Dany and sit on the Iron Throne for a while? Be aware of what you say, I'm a big fan of Aegon and the Illyrio's conspiracy stuff

Honestly, I go back and forth on this a lot. I see Jon mainly staying in the north and fighting the others, I think that's pretty much his purpose and I don't see any reason for him to go south and see Dany, same with her going north to see Jon. I know people say they expect Jon and Dany to get together, and I still think it's more on wishful thinking but I am rereading the books now to see where I can pick up on those hints. But regardless, they have to meet up at some point I would assume... and I would assume it's Dany going north toward the real problem of the realm. But I am still not positive what drives her up there yet.

I think Aegon will try to win Dany over and want to marry her (I go back and forth if she will be for it or not). I personally think Aegon will end up on the throne for a bit. I see Cersei not lasting much longer. I think Dany will try to overthrow Aegon at some point or kill him or something. I also go back and forth if Aegon is the real deal or not. I am trying to reread the series again while paying attention to certain themes, the Aegon theme and if Jon and Dany are going to be together/have children. So I hope after I reread, I will know better, or have a better guess at least.

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