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Baratheon claimants?

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The Appendix of A Feast For Crows states Eldon is the uncle of Stannis Baratheon, the father of Aemon Estermont, and the brother of Lomas Estermont. However, the Appendix of A Dance A With Dragons states Eldon is the great-uncle of Stannis and has two sons, Aemon and Lomas.

A Clash Of Kings-Chapter 42 and A Storm Of Swords-Chapter 36 state Cassana's father is the still-living Lord Estermont.

The closest to the claim would be Aemon and Loman Estermont. 

Could Edric Storm claim Storm's End? 

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9 minutes ago, Marcelowww said:

The Appendix of A Feast For Crows states Eldon is the uncle of Stannis Baratheon, the father of Aemon Estermont, and the brother of Lomas Estermont. However, the Appendix of A Dance A With Dragons states Eldon is the great-uncle of Stannis and has two sons, Aemon and Lomas.

A Clash Of Kings-Chapter 42 and A Storm Of Swords-Chapter 36 state Cassana's father is the still-living Lord Estermont.

The closest to the claim would be Aemon and Loman Estermont. 

Could Edric Storm claim Storm's End? 

Estermonts could claim Storm's End only if in fact they descend from Laughing Storm's daughter. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

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On 12/23/2018 at 6:20 PM, Lightoftheast said:

Great bastard Edrick Storm is very much alive.

The fandom doesn't like recognized bastards fostered at the family seat, unless they are called Jon, then they fangirl over the bastard. 

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Renly took his chance without knowing anything about Cersei's children - meaning he would likely also have done that had Stannis been the anointed heir of a childless Robert. He just wanted to be king.

Yes but the Tyrells were pretty sure that Margary could be ROberts new queen and from who do you think they got the information?

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5 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

Yes but the Tyrells were pretty sure that Margary could be ROberts new queen and from who do you think they got the information?

No implication they knew of the adultery though. They just knew what Robert was and thought Margaery would catch his eye, likely because of Renly’s say-so

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7 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

Yes but the Tyrells were pretty sure that Margary could be ROberts new queen and from who do you think they got the information?

Cersei also thought that she could be put aside in one of the opening chapters of AGOT.

My husband grows more restless every day. Having Stark beside him will only make him worse. He's still in love with the sister, the insipid little dead sixteen-year-old. How long till he decides to put me aside for some new Lyanna?"

Renly's plan was that Marg would seduce Robert to become Queen. 

The Knight of Flowers writes Highgarden, urging his lord father to send his sister to court. The girl is a maid of fourteen, sweet and beautiful and tractable, and Lord Renly and Ser Loras intend that Robert should bed her, wed her, and make a new queen.

Robert is king, he has the authority to do as he pleases. 

When Renly tells Stannis his plans to make Marg Robert's Queen neither Stannis or Cat come to the conclusion he knew about the incest, nor would he admit to it if it was evidence he knew.

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19 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

No implication they knew of the adultery though. They just knew what Robert was and thought Margaery would catch his eye, likely because of Renly’s say-so

yes catch his eye; i dont think the Tyrells wanted to make a whore out of Margary this was 100% for making her Roberts Queen. How they got the information of the predicted downfall of Cersie i dont know for sure.

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18 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Cersei also thought that she could be put aside in one of the opening chapters of AGOT.

My husband grows more restless every day. Having Stark beside him will only make him worse. He's still in love with the sister, the insipid little dead sixteen-year-old. How long till he decides to put me aside for some new Lyanna?"

Renly's plan was that Marg would seduce Robert to become Queen. 

The Knight of Flowers writes Highgarden, urging his lord father to send his sister to court. The girl is a maid of fourteen, sweet and beautiful and tractable, and Lord Renly and Ser Loras intend that Robert should bed her, wed her, and make a new queen.

Robert is king, he has the authority to do as he pleases. 

When Renly tells Stannis his plans to make Marg Robert's Queen neither Stannis or Cat come to the conclusion he knew about the incest, nor would he admit to it if it was evidence he knew.

Good quote, but the laws in Westeros are clear, they are married before the seven, so Cersie has to die before Robert could make a queen out of Margary; do you think the Tyrells wanted to murder her? I Know what they said, but it was never going to happen, more likely Robert fucked her put a bastard in her and the Tyrells dont have a daugther anymore who they could married off the a high Lord like Edmure in the future or Robb or whoever. That said they took a big risk with Margary and Renly.

 

Edited by Seaserpent

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1 hour ago, Seaserpent said:

Good quote, but the laws in Westeros are clear, they are married before the seven, so Cersie has to die before Robert could make a queen out of Margary;

Where is that stated? Wives can be put aside, not only does Cersei mention the possibility but we have other examples

Beldon tells us that in 239 AC, Ellyn Reyne was accused of bedding Tytos Lannister, urging him to set aside his wife and marry her instead. However, young Tytos (then nineteen) found his brother's widow so intimidating that he was unable to perform. Humiliated, he ran back to his wife to confess and beg her forgiveness.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was true that Aegon had been a friend to the smallfolk, had practically grown up among them, but to countenance the marriage of the heir to the throne to a commoner of uncertain birth was beyond him. His Grace did all he could to have the marriage undone, demanding that Duncan put Jenny aside. The prince shared his father's stubbornness, however, and refused him.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wed to Aelinor Penrose, he never showed an interest in getting her with child, and rumor had it that he had even failed to consummate the marriage. His small council, at their wits' ends, hoped it was simply some dislike of her that moved him, and thus they urged him to put her aside to take another wife. But he would not hear of it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And whatever version of the tale was true, we do know that Daemon asked for Rhaenyra's hand, if only Viserys would set aside his marriage to Lady Rhea. Viserys refused, and instead exiled Daemon from the Seven Kingdoms, never to return upon pain of death.

 

Now it is rare and likely only an option to the most powerful of men, but there are enough examples to show its an option. Robert, as King, would certainly be able to do it. Cersei, Renly, Cat and Stannis had no issue with it being a possibility. 

Quote

do you think the Tyrells wanted to murder her? I Know what they said, but it was never going to happen, more likely Robert fucked her put a bastard in her and the Tyrells dont have a daugther anymore who they could married off the a high Lord like Edmure in the future or Robb or whoever. That said they took a big risk with Margary and Renly.

The Tyrells would have a paramour to the King, not as good as a wife but certainly very desirable for Houses who wanted greater influence.

Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey, pleaded with his sister to seduce the aged Henry VIII in a bid for their House. already the most powerful in England. to get even more influence. The Boelyn's rise to power began with Mary being Henry's mistress. Anna d'Heilly, mistress of  Francis I, used her influence to gain great titles and positions of power for her family. Françoise de Foix did the same with her family. 

Being the long term mistress of a king was something many powerful and ambitious families wanted in our own history, something GRRM is more than familiar with given the reign of Aegon IV and the amount of powerful Lords happy to pimp out their daughters for the king's favor. 

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57 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Where is that stated? Wives can be put aside, not only does Cersei mention the possibility but we have other examples

Beldon tells us that in 239 AC, Ellyn Reyne was accused of bedding Tytos Lannister, urging him to set aside his wife and marry her instead. However, young Tytos (then nineteen) found his brother's widow so intimidating that he was unable to perform. Humiliated, he ran back to his wife to confess and beg her forgiveness.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It was true that Aegon had been a friend to the smallfolk, had practically grown up among them, but to countenance the marriage of the heir to the throne to a commoner of uncertain birth was beyond him. His Grace did all he could to have the marriage undone, demanding that Duncan put Jenny aside. The prince shared his father's stubbornness, however, and refused him.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wed to Aelinor Penrose, he never showed an interest in getting her with child, and rumor had it that he had even failed to consummate the marriage. His small council, at their wits' ends, hoped it was simply some dislike of her that moved him, and thus they urged him to put her aside to take another wife. But he would not hear of it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And whatever version of the tale was true, we do know that Daemon asked for Rhaenyra's hand, if only Viserys would set aside his marriage to Lady Rhea. Viserys refused, and instead exiled Daemon from the Seven Kingdoms, never to return upon pain of death.

 

Now it is rare and likely only an option to the most powerful of men, but there are enough examples to show its an option. Robert, as King, would certainly be able to do it. Cersei, Renly, Cat and Stannis had no issue with it being a possibility. 

The Tyrells would have a paramour to the King, not as good as a wife but certainly very desirable for Houses who wanted greater influence.

Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey, pleaded with his sister to seduce the aged Henry VIII in a bid for their House. already the most powerful in England. to get even more influence. The Boelyn's rise to power began with Mary being Henry's mistress. Anna d'Heilly, mistress of  Francis I, used her influence to gain great titles and positions of power for her family. Françoise de Foix did the same with her family. 

Being the long term mistress of a king was something many powerful and ambitious families wanted in our own history, something GRRM is more than familiar with given the reign of Aegon IV and the amount of powerful Lords happy to pimp out their daughters for the king's favor. 

Cersei didnt say anything, only that Robertcould be so stupid that he can put her aside for a Lyanna. and margary comes not even close to Lyanna and even than she doesnt say that he does it. Queens who are proven unfaithful can be dumped, so if he knows about Jaimie and the children than she is gone and dead. The case of alinore penrose is also different because they give even the king a legitimate reason to dumb her by saying you could say that its not consummated. Cersei has given Robert 3 children and has proven her worth in every way. Putting aside a marriage by a king is maybe possible for him but not for the faith. An anullment is only possible by high septon, or council of the faith. Also when Robert takes the black or Cersei went to the silent sisters, otherwise its not possible and Robert get in very deep trouble with the mighty Lannisters, the faith, the hightowers and probably every other religious house included his friend Ned Stark. So what i said to you before the unfaithfulness of Cersei is a reason, so teh Tyrells and probably Renly would have know about it otherwise it would be a very stupid mission. Making from Margary a second wife could be possible and also stupid, but it would not give the Tyrells so much power as the Riverlands who are on a strategic position. Also would marriage between Joffrey and margary much more clever.

Edited by Seaserpent

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26 minutes ago, Seaserpent said:

Cersei didnt say anything, only that Robertcould be so stupid that he can put her aside for a Lyanna.

Where does she call it stupid? Not only are you ignoring whats being said but you are inventing things that were never said. 

Robert, as King, has the power to set aside his wife. Multiple characters accept this, not one claims it can't happen.

Quote

 

and margary comes not even close to Lyanna and even than she doesnt say that he does it. Queens who are proven unfaithful can be dumped,

You are inventing stuff not said in the books.

Cersei makes it clear that she is worried that she will be put aside due to Robert growing restless. 

Quote

 

so if he knows about Jaimie and the children than she is gone and dead.

So why is Cersei only worried about being put aside in that scene? Surely losing her life would be more bothersome. 

In the same conversation that Renly laughs about Stannis' stories he is boasting to an audience of making Marg Robert's Queen. Not one person comes to the conclusion that Renly knew about the affair. 

Quote

 

Putting aside a marriage by a king is maybe possible for him but not for the faith. An anullment is only possible by high septon, or council of the faith.

Thats never actually claimed. Nowhere in the books does it claim a king does not have the power to set aside a marriage or that the only people able to do it is a High Septon or a Council of Faith. 

However, given that "Our present High Septon is a trained seal who barks prettily on command." It is not going to be a stretch for the king to do so.

Quote

 

Also when Robert takes the black or Cersei went to the silent sisters, otherwise its not possible and Robert get in very deep trouble with the mighty Lannisters,

Sure. The discussion is not about it being a clever plan, it's not, but about it being a possible one, which it is. I've provided ample evidence from the books showing it was possible.

Quote

 the hightowers

Why would they care?

Quote

 

and probably every other religious house included his friend Ned Stark.

Citation? 

Quote

 

So what i said to you before the unfaithfulness of Cersei is a reason, so teh Tyrells and probably Renly would have know about it otherwise it would be a very stupid mission.

If Renly knew about it he would have told Ned when he was warning him that Cersei would kill them

Lord Renly took a step back, taut as a bowstring. "Every moment you delay gives Cersei another moment to prepare. By the time Robert dies, it may be too late … for both of us."
"Then we should pray that Robert does not die."
 
Renly is desperate, there is zero reason he would not tell Ned given he thought his own life was on the line. 
Quote

 

Making from Margary a second wife could be possible and also stupid,

How would it be stupid? 

Quote

 

but it would not give the Tyrells so much power as the Riverlands who are on a strategic position.

Do people who win the second placed jackpot in a lottery return the money because they missed out on a bigger prize? 

Their father had summoned Cersei to court when she was twelve, hoping to make her a royal marriage. He refused every offer for her hand, preferring to keep her with him in the Tower of the Hand while she grew older and more womanly and ever more beautiful. No doubt he was waiting for Prince Viserys to mature, or perhaps for Rhaegar's wife to die in childbed. 

Tywin would be happy for Cersei to be Rhaegar's second wife, or even his younger brother's wife. A royal alliance is huge. 

Walder Frey has a hundred heirs, he's still able to marry new noble women. The second wife to the King is a huge prize. 

Quote

Also would marriage between Joffrey and margary much more clever.

It would be, what's your point?

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1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

Where does she call it stupid? Not only are you ignoring whats being said but you are inventing things that were never said. 

Robert, as King, has the power to set aside his wife. Multiple characters accept this, not one claims it can't happen.

You are inventing stuff not said in the books.

Cersei makes it clear that she is worried that she will be put aside due to Robert growing restless. 

So why is Cersei only worried about being put aside in that scene? Surely losing her life would be more bothersome. 

In the same conversation that Renly laughs about Stannis' stories he is boasting to an audience of making Marg Robert's Queen. Not one person comes to the conclusion that Renly knew about the affair. 

Thats never actually claimed. Nowhere in the books does it claim a king does not have the power to set aside a marriage or that the only people able to do it is a High Septon or a Council of Faith. 

However, given that "Our present High Septon is a trained seal who barks prettily on command." It is not going to be a stretch for the king to do so.

Sure. The discussion is not about it being a clever plan, it's not, but about it being a possible one, which it is. I've provided ample evidence from the books showing it was possible.

Why would they care?

Citation? 

If Renly knew about it he would have told Ned when he was warning him that Cersei would kill them

Lord Renly took a step back, taut as a bowstring. "Every moment you delay gives Cersei another moment to prepare. By the time Robert dies, it may be too late … for both of us."
"Then we should pray that Robert does not die."
 
Renly is desperate, there is zero reason he would not tell Ned given he thought his own life was on the line. 

How would it be stupid? 

Do people who win the second placed jackpot in a lottery return the money because they missed out on a bigger prize? 

Their father had summoned Cersei to court when she was twelve, hoping to make her a royal marriage. He refused every offer for her hand, preferring to keep her with him in the Tower of the Hand while she grew older and more womanly and ever more beautiful. No doubt he was waiting for Prince Viserys to mature, or perhaps for Rhaegar's wife to die in childbed. 

Tywin would be happy for Cersei to be Rhaegar's second wife, or even his younger brother's wife. A royal alliance is huge. 

Walder Frey has a hundred heirs, he's still able to marry new noble women. The second wife to the King is a huge prize. 

It would be, what's your point?

You have something thats called wiki of ice and fire form the same sit e you are on now, not everything is asoiaf, but there are more books and much more content from GRRM himself like the app. So good luck searching for background information. If we only believe what people say in the book and dont look more further than that, than we dont need forums. If you dont know the relationship between the hightowers and the faith because you didnt read fire and blood for example than you dont have a clue about who the hightowers have supported throughout history.

So that you dont know anything about anullment and how it is done than read all the books and background information from GRRM. Your examples  of putting aside wives are not even close to the situation of Cersei and Robert. 

There is noway he should marry Margary, because she dont even look like Lyanna, so the plan is incredibly stupid if they dont have any information about Cersei. You say its not a stretch for king to end a marriage yet its NOT said in asoiaf and yet you saying it. So you invent that the king can do it in every situation when the wiki say completely something else. WE also dont know what Cat and Stannis think of any of it.

The most funny of all is the character of Cersei who you know nothing about. In the whole book of feast of crows Cersei thinks the MOST bizar things about the Tyrells, about the faith, about Tyrion about everybody and this person is affraid that Robert is getting restless and want to get ride of her. She doesnt say anything else than that everybody is against her and this POV character you believe, while she not even saying it.

Margary should marry Joffrey is my point of view because it doesnt bring the Lannisters and other houses or the faith against them. A marriage with joffrey would put them in an amazing big alliance with the throne. And because you like the book so much in the end this alliance proved to be the best. So my idea to marry Margary to Joffrey is in fact a beter idea. Fire and Blood shows us how the faith and hightowers dealt with polygamy or unfaithfulness throughout history.

Why is Tywin happy you made that up too, when Rhaegar married Elia he was done with it!

You think that they want to make margary a second wife and i think a replacement!

Neds character on polygamy, how common is this in the North i dont know an example in the BOOK u ?

Why should Renly tell Ned anything while he himself plans to go to the Tyrells or did he decide that in the seconds after talking to Ned? How do you think the Tyrells took him in so easy ?

Jon and Stannis were the first two that knew about it and you think LF, Varys and Renly know nothing about these things because its simply not said in the book. You know the Characters you know their network, you know Varys comes in every room through secret passages, why should he not know? 

  "I had no wish to marry after Lyanna was taken from me, but Jon said the realm needed an heir." This says more than enough Robert was never to go marry anybody not even Cersei but he needed too. Renly is his brother and not stupid he didnt want to make Margary his whore, so he had a plan to put aside Cersei. In this quote he said that Robert only married out of duty so when he is single again he will off course do it. Than Margary would be a good match from a good family, but still not even close to to the black haired Lyanna.

Edited by Seaserpent

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11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

You have something thats called wiki of ice and fire form the same sit e you are on now, not everything is asoiaf, but there are more books and much more content from GRRM himself like the app. So good luck searching for background information.

Mate I've done exactly that, I have provided quotes backing up my argument. 

Kings and other lords can put aside their wives. There are multiple quotes from the series backing this up. 

11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

 

 If we only believe what people say in the book and dont look more further than that, than we dont need forums.

lol your entire argument seems to be from forums, rather than the books. 

11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

 

If you dont know the relationship between the hightowers and the faith because you didnt read fire and blood for example than you dont have a clue about who the hightowers have supported throughout history.

The Hightowers support themself first and foremost. When the High Septon and the Faith was angered with the Targaryen marriages it was Hightowers who disposed of him.

Many and more remain certain he was murdered…but by whom? Ser Morgan Hightower did the deed at the command of his lord brother, some say (and Ser Morgan was seen entering and leaving the High Septon’s privy chambers that night). Others point to the Lady Patrice Hightower, Lord Martyn’s maiden aunt and a reputed witch (who did indeed seek an audience with His High Holiness at dusk, though he was alive when she departed)....

...The truth will likely never be known…but the swift reaction of Lord Martyn when word reached him at the Hightower is beyond dispute. At once he dispatched his own knights to disarm and arrest the Warrior’s Sons, amongst them his own brother. The city gates were opened, and Targaryen banners raised along the walls.

And during the reign of Jaehaerys they sold out to the Crown to gain more power. 

The Hightowers of Oldtown were an ancient family, powerful, wealthy, proud…and large. It had long been their custom for the younger sons, brothers, cousins, and bastards of the house to join the Faith, where many had risen high over the centuries. Lord Donnel Hightower had a younger brother, two nephews, and six cousins serving the Seven in 54 AC; the brother, one nephew, and two cousins wore the cloth-of-silver of the Most Devout. It was Lord Donnel’s desire that one of them become High Septon.

The Hightowers want  control of the Faith, they don't care about the King's marriage. 

The laurel fell to the Septon Alfyn, who had crossed the Reach a dozen times in his litter on behalf of Jaehaerys and his queen. The Seven Kingdoms had no fiercer champion of Exceptionalism than Alfyn, but he was the oldest of the Seven Speakers, and legless besides; it seemed likely the Stranger would seek him out sooner rather than later. When that befell, his own successor would be a Hightower, the king assured Lord Donnel, provided his kin aligned themselves firmly with the Exceptionalists during Septon Alfyn’s reign.

Thus was the bargain struck, if Septon Barth’s account can be believed. Barth himself did not question it, though he rued the corruption that made the Most Devout so easy to manipulate.

 

And Margaery is Lord Hightower's granddaughter, he's unlikely to have a problem with her marrying Robert. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

So that you dont know anything about anullment and how it is done than read all the books and background information from GRRM. Your examples  of putting aside wives are not even close to the situation of Cersei and Robert. 

How are they not close? 

  • Why do neither Stannis or Cat have a problem with Renly's claim that Robert can remarry?
11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

There is noway he should marry Margary, because she dont even look like Lyanna, so the plan is incredibly stupid if they dont have any information about Cersei.

I agree, it is not a great plan. There are zero guarantees that she could seduce Robert and make him fall in love with her.  This is true regardless if they knew about Cersei's affair. 

 

11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

 

You say its not a stretch for king to end a marriage yet its NOT said in asoiaf and yet you saying it.

The books claim its possible. 

11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

 

So you invent that the king can do it in every situation when the wiki say completely something else.

Does it? Quote the wiki and their source for this. 

11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

 

WE also dont know what Cat and Stannis think of any of it.

Yeah, we do. Cat is the POV of that chapter. 

In the same conversation

  1. Renly laughs at Stannis' story about the bastards
  2. Tells Stannis and Cat that he planned Marg to marry Robert. 

If a second marriage was evidence he knew about the affair he'd not be telling everyone about it. 

11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

The most funny of all is the character of Cersei who you know nothing about. In the whole book of feast of crows Cersei thinks the MOST bizar things about the Tyrells, about the faith, about Tyrion about everybody and this person is affraid that Robert is getting restless and want to get ride of her. She doesnt say anything else than that everybody is against her and this POV character you believe, while she not even saying it.

Dude. not to be rude but I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. 

11 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

Margary should marry Joffrey is my point of view because it doesnt bring the Lannisters and other houses or the faith against them.

Yeah, I agree, the Tyrells likely agree but he was already betrothed to Sansa. 

The Tyrells likely wanted it as an option, but given Renlys hatred of Cersei it is she he wanted replaced. 

I'm not answering the rest of your post as its pretty hard to decipher, with no real points.

 

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On 12/29/2018 at 1:29 PM, Bernie Mac said:

Mate I've done exactly that, I have provided quotes backing up my argument. 

Kings and other lords can put aside their wives. There are multiple quotes from the series backing this up. 

lol your entire argument seems to be from forums, rather than the books. 

The Hightowers support themself first and foremost. When the High Septon and the Faith was angered with the Targaryen marriages it was Hightowers who disposed of him.

Many and more remain certain he was murdered…but by whom? Ser Morgan Hightower did the deed at the command of his lord brother, some say (and Ser Morgan was seen entering and leaving the High Septon’s privy chambers that night). Others point to the Lady Patrice Hightower, Lord Martyn’s maiden aunt and a reputed witch (who did indeed seek an audience with His High Holiness at dusk, though he was alive when she departed)....

...The truth will likely never be known…but the swift reaction of Lord Martyn when word reached him at the Hightower is beyond dispute. At once he dispatched his own knights to disarm and arrest the Warrior’s Sons, amongst them his own brother. The city gates were opened, and Targaryen banners raised along the walls.

And during the reign of Jaehaerys they sold out to the Crown to gain more power. 

The Hightowers of Oldtown were an ancient family, powerful, wealthy, proud…and large. It had long been their custom for the younger sons, brothers, cousins, and bastards of the house to join the Faith, where many had risen high over the centuries. Lord Donnel Hightower had a younger brother, two nephews, and six cousins serving the Seven in 54 AC; the brother, one nephew, and two cousins wore the cloth-of-silver of the Most Devout. It was Lord Donnel’s desire that one of them become High Septon.

The Hightowers want  control of the Faith, they don't care about the King's marriage. 

The laurel fell to the Septon Alfyn, who had crossed the Reach a dozen times in his litter on behalf of Jaehaerys and his queen. The Seven Kingdoms had no fiercer champion of Exceptionalism than Alfyn, but he was the oldest of the Seven Speakers, and legless besides; it seemed likely the Stranger would seek him out sooner rather than later. When that befell, his own successor would be a Hightower, the king assured Lord Donnel, provided his kin aligned themselves firmly with the Exceptionalists during Septon Alfyn’s reign.

Thus was the bargain struck, if Septon Barth’s account can be believed. Barth himself did not question it, though he rued the corruption that made the Most Devout so easy to manipulate.

 

And Margaery is Lord Hightower's granddaughter, he's unlikely to have a problem with her marrying Robert. 

 

 

How are they not close? 

  • Why do neither Stannis or Cat have a problem with Renly's claim that Robert can remarry?

I agree, it is not a great plan. There are zero guarantees that she could seduce Robert and make him fall in love with her.  This is true regardless if they knew about Cersei's affair. 

 

The books claim its possible. 

Does it? Quote the wiki and their source for this. 

Yeah, we do. Cat is the POV of that chapter. 

In the same conversation

  1. Renly laughs at Stannis' story about the bastards
  2. Tells Stannis and Cat that he planned Marg to marry Robert. 

If a second marriage was evidence he knew about the affair he'd not be telling everyone about it. 

Dude. not to be rude but I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. 

Yeah, I agree, the Tyrells likely agree but he was already betrothed to Sansa. 

The Tyrells likely wanted it as an option, but given Renlys hatred of Cersei it is she he wanted replaced. 

I'm not answering the rest of your post as its pretty hard to decipher, with no real points.

 

I dont take anything from forums, but we dont need forums to discuss things if everything in the book 100% the truth. I gave you Cersei as an example. Everything she thinks is completely stupid and she always fills in for other people what they think of her and everybody is the enemy. So thats the same for Renly who not even have a POV character, all of his moves are suspicious. But you think he just tried something out by inform about Maragary and Lyanna and i think he has a more smarter plan with it. But you have no evidence of an anullment somewhere in history of 2 married people where being bored is the reason. I quoted Robert that he married out of duty and somebody who does that is not even thinking about taking other wives and not even know how the faith will react. We dont even want to know how his loaner and father in law Tywinn will react to this. What i said Joffrey is the heir so a Tyrell betrothal was a good option and even there they are late with, because Margary and Joff are of an age were this is very common there and now the Tyrells are way too late and they knew Roberts best friend has a girl who is almost a woman. So than Cersei was right afterall they are aiming to high.   

 

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There is no question that kings can 'set aside' marriages and wives. Denying that goes against the text.

However, it also makes no sense that setting a aside a wife is the same as an annulment - which at this point can only happen when a marriage hasn't be consummated - because both Robert-Cersei, Daemon-Rhea, and possibly even Aerys I-Aelinor are marriages that have been consummated.

If Robert or Daemon had set aside Cersei or Rhea this wouldn't have been an annulment of the sort Sansa might get - or was nearly forced on Jaehaerys and Alysanne. It would have been a much more ancient practice - as done by the old First Men kings who dismissed the wives who had already given them children in favor of new Andal brides.

How realistic it is that Robert could have actually set aside Cersei Lannister is a completely different matter entirely. Renly plan sounds like nonsense, just as Cersei's fear that this might actually happen sounds like a very irrational fear. Cersei is Tywin's daughter, and Robert could not possibly afford provoking Tywin considering all those Lannister loans - not to mention that Queen Cersei had given Robert three healthy children already. The entire Realm would have showered Cersei with sympathy if the heartless whore monger Robert had tried to pull a Catherine of Aragon on Cersei.

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On 12/26/2018 at 4:30 PM, Lord Varys said:

Stannis doesn't get much support because he is singularly miserable and unpopular individual as well as a man who tries to steal the birthright of his nephew, basically. He tells a story but he doesn't have evidence. Stannis would have more support if he had been the chosen and anointed heir of a childless Robert, one assumes, but even then his unpopularity would have caused problems for him in his rivalry with Renly. You have to look and act like a king in such a medieval world. Being the heir/having a claim doesn't exactly carry you the entire way.

If Robert had had as strong an heir in his son Joffrey as he himself was - i.e. a prototypical Baratheon like Renly, say - then there wouldn't have been any succession issue. The Baratheons have a problem because there are too many claimants in 298 AC - Joffrey, Stannis, Renly - not that they have too few. If the Targaryens were truly gone one of them may prevail in the end. But now that they come back chances are pretty low that they will last much longer - especially Cersei's children.

If any of the Baratheons had backed another (eg Stannis -> Renly, or Stannis-> Joffrey), the W05K would have been much shorter and much less to the liking of the North

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On 12/31/2018 at 3:50 AM, Lord Varys said:

There is no question that kings can 'set aside' marriages and wives. Denying that goes against the text.

However, it also makes no sense that setting a aside a wife is the same as an annulment - which at this point can only happen when a marriage hasn't be consummated - because both Robert-Cersei, Daemon-Rhea, and possibly even Aerys I-Aelinor are marriages that have been consummated.

If Robert or Daemon had set aside Cersei or Rhea this wouldn't have been an annulment of the sort Sansa might get - or was nearly forced on Jaehaerys and Alysanne. It would have been a much more ancient practice - as done by the old First Men kings who dismissed the wives who had already given them children in favor of new Andal brides.

How realistic it is that Robert could have actually set aside Cersei Lannister is a completely different matter entirely. Renly plan sounds like nonsense, just as Cersei's fear that this might actually happen sounds like a very irrational fear. Cersei is Tywin's daughter, and Robert could not possibly afford provoking Tywin considering all those Lannister loans - not to mention that Queen Cersei had given Robert three healthy children already. The entire Realm would have showered Cersei with sympathy if the heartless whore monger Robert had tried to pull a Catherine of Aragon on Cersei.

Yes i agree with your explanation, only my point was that the Faith would really not like it when Robert took a second wife and he married out of duty with Cersei, so the duty is done and he will go on with fucking the whores who could look much more like Lyanna. 

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17 minutes ago, Seaserpent said:

Yes i agree with your explanation, only my point was that the Faith would really not like it when Robert took a second wife and he married out of duty with Cersei, so the duty is done and he will go on with fucking the whores who could look much more like Lyanna. 

The really weird issue in Robert's case is the question what would have happened to Cersei's children in such a scenario. Would he kept them as heirs or would they have been declared bastards? We don't know.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The really weird issue in Robert's case is the question what would have happened to Cersei's children in such a scenario. Would he kept them as heirs or would they have been declared bastards? We don't know.

In Viserys I case he kept rhaenyra as his heir, while he was now married with Alicient Hightower. The only difference is that the mother of Rhaenyra died and Cersei is put aside. Only when Cerseis infidelity with Jaimie would have come to light the case is more simple. In Case of Aegon I the first born from his two wives stayed his heir. So a change of heirs is not really common. Joffrey is pretty safe i guess.

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