Death scene: Lyanna Mormont

[Nerevanin]

I liked her death scene the most out of all the death scenes in the episode. The way the giant lifted her and crushed her little body was very impacting and emotional to me.

[Nerevanin]

2 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

I also am a little confused about how dragonglass works against the wights.

Me too. I know that in the books dragon glass is deadly to WW but useless against wights. It shatters into shards when Sam tries to kill a wight with it. I frankly don't remember how and when in the show they came to the conclusion the dragon glass kills wights but it was giving me major WTF moments when the wights were killed so easily 

[Forlong the Fat]

2 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Me too. I know that in the books dragon glass is deadly to WW but useless against wights. It shatters into shards when Sam tries to kill a wight with it. I frankly don't remember how and when in the show they came to the conclusion the dragon glass kills wights but it was giving me major WTF moments when the wights were killed so easily 

If I remember that scene correctly, the glass shattered because that particular wight had armor.  As far as I know it hasn't been established in the books whether dragon-glass would kill a wight if you successfully stabbed it. 

[Wik]

3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

House Mormont extinct now. What a pity.

Both Jorah and Lyanna died heroic and ferocious deaths.

That is my biggest take away....I had always thought Jorah would die in the series. I hate how they meshed him and JonCon. But then little Lyanna came along and was pretty cool. But it seemed obvious she was going to bite it....most 10 year old girls wouldn't have survived that fight 

Still, I had got to the point where I thought one would survive to carry the line. 

Many of my theories have been based on predicting deaths in regards to how it will effect the outcome after the resolution. I always figured some houses may disappear but most of the major ones would survive with at least one person to keep them going. Sadly, Mormont's won't be a oart of reconstruction lol

[Kajjo]

2 minutes ago, Wik said:

Sadly, Mormont's won't be a oart of reconstruction

Well, the Mormonts not, but Bear Island exists nonetheless and so do their inhabitant, at least some of them. They will rebuild Bear Island and they will be as ferocious as their former leading House. There will be a new dynasty, as there surely has been a dynasty before the Mormonts on Bear Island. Future is not about houses and names, but about people willing to rebuild and procreate.

But yes, I agree, the Mormonts were a fine family with loyalty, courage and good leadership. I am sorry we lost them.

[Ice Queen]

3 minutes ago, Wik said:

That is my biggest take away....I had always thought Jorah would die in the series. I hate how they meshed him and JonCon. But then little Lyanna came along and was pretty cool. But it seemed obvious she was going to bite it....most 10 year old girls wouldn't have survived that fight 

Still, I had got to the point where I thought one would survive to carry the line. 

Many of my theories have been based on predicting deaths in regards to how it will effect the outcome after the resolution. I always figured some houses may disappear but most of the major ones would survive with at least one person to keep them going. Sadly, Mormont's won't be a oart of reconstruction lol

It will probably go to Yara. The ironborn ruled Bear Island and lost it in a wrestling match with Rodrik Stark. 

So long, Little Bear. You done good. 

[Kajjo]

21 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

t shatters into shards when Sam tries to kill a wight with it.

Really? Do you remember which season and episode, which scene? I don't remember that. 

 

[Ice Queen]

26 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Me too. I know that in the books dragon glass is deadly to WW but useless against wights. It shatters into shards when Sam tries to kill a wight with it. I frankly don't remember how and when in the show they came to the conclusion the dragon glass kills wights but it was giving me major WTF moments when the wights were killed so easily 

Correct. Dragonglass in the books doesn't work on wights, only on the Others. The only real way to kill a wight is to burn it, although steel will hack them apart. 

[Ice Queen]

6 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Really? Do you remember which season and episode, which scene? I don't remember that. 

 

It was in Storm of Swords. 

[Nerevanin]

8 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Really? Do you remember which season and episode, which scene? I don't remember that. 

 

I don't remember if it happened in the show, to be honest.  But it was in ASOS (book 3), as Ice Queen above mentioned. In the books Jon found a horn and a bunch of dragonglass beyond the Wall and Sam kept the horn (its purpose is still unknown if there is any) and a dragonglass dagger. He killed a WW later by accident by the dragonglass dagger and thought that it is deadly to undeads but when he later tries to kill a wight, the dagger shatters and it doesn't harm the wight at all.

 

32 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

If I remember that scene correctly, the glass shattered because that particular wight had armor.  As far as I know it hasn't been established in the books whether dragon-glass would kill a wight if you successfully stabbed it. 

I don't think that's true but I can't check it right now. Can you quote the part?

[Forlong the Fat]

7 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

I don't remember if it happened in the show, to be honest.  But it was in ASOS (book 3), as Ice Queen above mentioned. In the books Jon found a horn and a bunch of dragonglass beyond the Wall and Sam kept the horn (its purpose is still unknown if there is any) and a dragonglass dagger. He killed a WW later by accident by the dragonglass dagger and thought that it is deadly to undeads but when he later tries to kill a wight, the dagger shatters and it doesn't harm the wight at all.

 

I don't think that's true but I can't check it right now. Can you quote the part?

"He stabbed and screamed again and again, tearing huge rents in Paul's heavy black cloak. Shards of dragon-glass flew everywhere as the blade shattered on the iron mail beneath the wool."

ASOS, Ch. 46, pg 645

[King Tam Stark]

Her death was epic and foreshadowed Arya killing the nk it was almost identical 

[Kajjo]

19 minutes ago, King Tam Stark said:

Her death was epic and foreshadowed

Yes and Yes, It was. 

[Forlong the Fat]

32 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

Correct. Dragonglass in the books doesn't work on wights, only on the Others. The only real way to kill a wight is to burn it, although steel will hack them apart. 

"He stabbed and screamed again and again, tearing huge rents in Paul's heavy black cloak. Shards of dragon-glass flew everywhere as the blade shattered on the iron mail beneath the wool."

ASOS, Ch. 46, pg 645

[Kajjo]

Dragon glass is supposed to work against wights and it did. The book does not contradict this.

We know that dragon glass is brittle. The show does mess up that a bit, but not the general efficiency of dragon glass against wigths.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

When we talk about how bad-ass Arya is, this one for me was even more so... much smaller/younger ? and without the training Arya has had... she was ferocious and could have easily sat it out in the crypt but as you would imagine with her being a Bear islander that wasn't going to happen.

[Forlong the Fat]

27 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Dragon glass is supposed to work against wights and it did. The book does not contradict this.

We know that dragon glass is brittle. The show does mess up that a bit, but not the general efficiency of dragon glass against wigths.

I suspect that's correct in the books.  It's very obvious, based on the quote I posted above, that GRRM intended to leave it an open question. But if it doesn't work, what's the point of showing it not work in a scene only due to being shattered by chain mail?  On that basis, if I was betting on it, I would bet that dragon-glass will kill wights in the books.

As an aside, it's amazing how widespread the misinterpretation of Sam's dagger breaking on Paul's chain mail has become. Lots of people on this site and others take it as established that dragon-glass won't kill a wight.

[Ice Queen]

1 hour ago, Forlong the Fat said:

"He stabbed and screamed again and again, tearing huge rents in Paul's heavy black cloak. Shards of dragon-glass flew everywhere as the blade shattered on the iron mail beneath the wool."

ASOS, Ch. 46, pg 645

Fair enough, but D&D say:

We've all read the books countless times so we all have a pretty thorough working knowledge of them. That said, we sometimes have to alter book lore a bit to fit the demands of the show. For example, changing Asha Greyjoy's name to Yara and that dragonglass also kills wights, as we saw in 605."

https://www.buzzfeed.com/farrahpenn/heres-what-its-like-to-write-for-game-of-thrones?utm_term=.lyJgxqwY3#.csw2KPZNO

In season 5's episode The Door, IIRC one of the Children stabs a wight with dragonglass...and nothing happens. So even the show as usual doesn't know what it's doing. I have to rewatch it, but I'm 99% sure that's what happens.

Fire is the ONLY way to kill a wight and make sure it staus that way.

[Ice Queen]

43 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

I suspect that's correct in the books.  It's very obvious, based on the quote I posted above, that GRRM intended to leave it an open question. But if it doesn't work, what's the point of showing it not work in a scene only due to being shattered by chain mail?  On that basis, if I was betting on it, I would bet that dragon-glass will kill wights in the books.

As an aside, it's amazing how widespread the misinterpretation of Sam's dagger breaking on Paul's chain mail has become. Lots of people on this site and others take it as established that dragon-glass won't kill a wight.

If it does, it's not because of any magic but because the wights are pretty decomposed. That's why steel works to disable them. I suspect it would do what steel does.

[Forlong the Fat]

5 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

If it does, it's not because of any magic but because the wights are pretty decomposed. That's why steel works to disable them. I suspect it would do what steel does.

That assumption is not based on what GRRM actually wrote. He quite deliberately wrote the scene to leave ambiguity as to whether dragon-glass works against wights. You don't put Paul in armor, and have Sam stab him in the armor, to establish that dragon-glass doesn't work against wight flesh. The books establish an obvious, unresolved question on this issue.

My bet is that GRRM would not have introduced that ambiguity if dragon-glass works just like any other weapon. But at most we can say that there is a deliberate, open question on the issue.