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Nerevanin

Why the bells?

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Much speculation here about who ordered the bells to start ringing all over the city. And who actually rang them. In Lannister land no one acts independently, so Cersei. But no, she of all people wouldn't surrender knowing Dany would burn her if captured. 

Let's rethink this. Are there any historical examples of bell ringing to signal surrender? I'm thinking the last time all the bells rang in King's Landing was when Tommen died.  So bells ring for royal funerals, holidays and coronations. And alarms. If a besieging enemy has breached the walls, letting everyone know as quickly as possible is essential.  It meant, "To Arms!" This would be standard operating procedure and generally recognized. But the gate fell so quickly that this response was critically delayed. When they did start ringing the defenders had already lost heart. Thus that short lived truce in the alley. But the situation looked different from Dany's perch. This could all be some trick of Cersei's. Yeah, I know Tyrion did tell her what the bells were supposed to mean. But by that point Dany placed little trust in Tyrion. After she learned of Jaime's escape (not shown, but the Unsullied guards would certainly have defended themselves with the "only following orders" excuse), she would have discounted anything he'd told her. So burn them all. Tyrion may have anticipated how things would play out, and maybe not. But in either case Dany's Draconian actions would push Jon to treason. Tyrion had denounced Varys, now he is playing the same game. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2019 at 2:56 PM, Kajjo said:

Listening to the bells of surrender, she realised she won the battle. Se would be queen. She achieved her goal. And then? More or less nothing.

No friends, no lover, no advisers. So much betrayal. No one loves her, no one wants her. 

Viserys brainwashed little Daenerys into believing Westerosi actually are waiting for her, waiting to be freed, to be ruled by. They were supposed to love her, respect her, accept her. None of it is the case.

She felt empty. Betrayed. Hopeless. 

 

Well put, it makes a lot of sense.

In fact i think this episode gives Dany´s character the deepness and 'humanity' it was lacking for the whole show. Finally. Controversial i know but just how i feel, honestly.

There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of this very human behaviour involving rage, ('unjustified') murder, genocide or whatever. The signals (and reasons) pointing to Dany following this path sooner or later were clearly there, so (while in varying degrees) we´ve been blind. Which is brilliant. To the point that while a (seemingly) majority consider Dany´s 'Fire and Blood' in The Bells to be the biggest show´s failure, i find it to be one of my very favourite moments, and a pretty huge redeeming point after two *shit seasons*.

I can empathize with the reasonable people who think different but i am hardly moving anywhere from here, as i am feeling full of actual Daenerys right now.

'Fear it is' is one for the ages and The Bells was phenomenal.

Dracarys!

 

 

 

Edited by Empress Sansa

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1 hour ago, Rikard said:

When they did start ringing the defenders had already lost heart.

You can hear people screaming to ring the bells. Clearly in order to surrender. It makes no sense. 

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On 5/13/2019 at 5:50 AM, Nerevanin said:

It kinda seemed from the episode that it was the sound of the bells that provoked Dany to launch the second attack against the city.  Any theories why? Because it kinda seemed as if Dany thought "I didn't came all the way from Essos just to win in 2 minutes!"

(Note: this is NOT another "Dany going mad is unbelievable and it ruined the story" thread).

There was really a lot more behind it. Jumping to conclusions without thinking things through is something we're almost all of us very good at, especially the entitled internet at large. 

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26 minutes ago, Wsc48 said:

You can hear people screaming to ring the bells. Clearly in order to surrender. It makes no sense. 

Perhaps, hard to make out what they were screaming. Still, an unusual way of communicating a desire to capitulate. And ineffective. Historically a city can expect terms only before it is stormed.  Once the attack begins it was understood under the laws and customs of war that the defenders can expect no quarter. And for the very practical reason that discipline collapses once attackers enter a city. Ill paid soldiers considered booty their due. This was the understanding prior to the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907. It was certainly the case during the Medieval period. Only if the assault fails could a peaceful surrender be negotiated, as with the siege of Jerusalem in 1187.  

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7 hours ago, Empress Sansa said:

There are hundreds if not thousands of examples of this very human behaviour involving rage, ('unjustified') murder, genocide or whatever. The signals (and reasons) pointing to Dany following this path sooner or later were clearly there, so (while in varying degrees) we´ve been blind. Which is brilliant. To the point that while a (seemingly) majority consider Dany´s 'Fire and Blood' in The Bells to be the biggest show´s failure, i find it to be one of my very favourite moments

Yes, absolutely.

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My impression was that Dany didn't want to hear the bells ring. She was hoping they wouldn't. She was almost pissed when they started because it threatened to rob her of her right to burn the city. Ultimately, she said fuck it and did it anyway.

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Has this been mentioned before, the fact that the khals earn bells after a victory? Perhaps the sound if bells awake Dany's aspect if being not a queen but a Khaaleesi.

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On 5/13/2019 at 4:50 AM, Nerevanin said:

It kinda seemed from the episode that it was the sound of the bells that provoked Dany to launch the second attack against the city.  Any theories why? Because it kinda seemed as if Dany thought "I didn't came all the way from Essos just to win in 2 minutes!"

(Note: this is NOT another "Dany going mad is unbelievable and it ruined the story" thread).

Instead of accepting the City's surrender Daenerys' chose to burn Kings Landing to keep Jon or Tyrion from being able to claim the victory. She wanted to leave no doubt that it was Daenerys that conqured the Iron Throne.

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:50 PM, Nerevanin said:

It kinda seemed from the episode that it was the sound of the bells that provoked Dany to launch the second attack against the city.  Any theories why? Because it kinda seemed as if Dany thought "I didn't came all the way from Essos just to win in 2 minutes!"

(Note: this is NOT another "Dany going mad is unbelievable and it ruined the story" thread).

I think it has something to do with the Battle of the Bells (of Stoney Sept) during Roberts Rebellion. Robert was actively hidden by the towns people of  Stoney Sept despite Connington's loyalist army occupying it and offering rewards for him to be turned over. Then when the rebel army appeared the sept bells were rung to signal the start of the battle, and Connignton lost. 

During their exile, Viserys might have told her this event, and probably ranted on how the people of Stoney Sept were all traitors.

Cut to the Battle of KL and the bells ringing. At that point, she had won and Cersei forces' were literally up in smoke, so Dany was in a similar position as Connignton was when he had Stoney Sept and Robert was alone and in hiding. 

Perhaps the KL Bells ringing spurred a sudden memory of what happened at the Stoney Sept (i.e. towns people actively hiding Robert), and aggravated her preexisting bias that the King's Landing populace were quasi treasonous Cersei supporters. The fact that the Stoney Sept bells signaled the arrival of Ned and Hoster's army could have influenced Daenerys to doubt the sincerity of the KL bell surrender, and become paranoid of being ambushed by some hidden ace up Cersei's sleave (especially considering Cersei deceived them over joining the NK fight, Missandei's death and Rhaegal's ambush).

Perhaps Cersei was going to ignite the hidden wildfire we saw if the North,Vale and Unsullied got to close to Red Keep.

I also read that in the book, Myles Toyne said that Tywin would have burned Stoney Sept to the ground to end Roberts Rebellion. Perhaps Dany (patience exhausted) was also thinking along the same lines when she snapped at KL? 

I originally thought that D&D's use of bells in the Bell Episode was just a random plot device. But now I feel it has something to do with the Battle of the Bells.

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Posted (edited)

I'd it possible that the bells had been rung when Robert previously took kings landing, and she remembered heating them as a child? But then again, the mad king was hardly going to surrender, was he? Either way, dumb and dumber executed it terribly.

Edited by Uilliam

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8 minutes ago, Uilliam said:

I'd it possible that the bells had been rung when Robert previously took kings landing, and she remembered heating them as a child? But then again, the mad king was hardly going to surrender, was he? Either way, dumb and dumber executed it terribly.

I thought Aerys evacuated Rhaella (who was pregnant with Dany at the time) to Dragonstone after the Trident battle was lost. So she could not have heard any KL bell during the rebellion.

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