Jump to content
Paul Ell

Varys motives to return a Targarian to the Throne

Recommended Posts

Why does Varys support returning a Targarian to the Throne?  Varys has been secretly plotting with illyrio since before season 1 episode 1 to put Viserys Targarian on the Throne.  My question is why?

Varys motives seems to be shaped by "the good of the realm".  What was so terrible about King Robert and the Barathian royal family that he would want to replace it by Dothraki invasion force to install a Tagarian on the throne?  How would that be better for the realm?

I'm talking about his original motives, before the show even started.  So before the War of the 5 Kings started and before he met Daenerys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you read the books, it touches more on this. The plot certainly gets more complicated, but we never specifically get a POV from Varys. So it largely is speculation as to why he does it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the writers where probably originally planning on following Varys' book storyline, where his plans are alot less noble than the show, at least if the theories turn out to be correct. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After Season 1, the show dropped that storyline completely. Varys, in the show, never had the storyline from the book. In the show, he only had that scene with Illyrio in Season 1 under the Red Keep. After that scene, he never acted against Robert. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm, really they should have reversed both Tyrion's and Vary's roles throughout this season. It fixes both inconsistencies with the two characters. Both of them end up looking less stupid if they had done this. It would have been more in line to see that Varys was a Targaryen loyalist through and through and only cared to see a Dany sit on the throne despite what the consequences might be whereas Tyrion could figure out that it might not be the best idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems the TV show did not provide a reason for Varys motives.  Unlike the books which took Varys and the story in a different direction.

I came up with my own explanation that fits the TV story.
Illrio had his own selfish motives for putting Viserys on the Iron Throne.  Viserys promised him wealth, status and power for his help.  Illrio is the one who put things into motion on the ground.  Arranging the marriage between Denarius and Khal Drogo and giving Dany the dragon eggs.

But for Varys returning a Targarian to the Throne was a contingency plan, to have it as an option if things went to total shit in the 7 Kingdoms.  It wasn't something he was actively striving to make happen during most of the show it was a backup plan and the more it looked like Joffrey would be a terrible King the more Varys chose to use the contingency plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BlueNightzx said:

Varys and Illyrio are most likely BlackFyre supporters, with no fAegon and JonCon, their roles and motivations make no sense.

I'm not so sure about that. Varys didn't show any intent to betray King Aerys and seemingly wasn't plotting against him. I mean this can be retconned of course if George decides to reveal new information about him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

They didn't want to put Viserys on the throne. They wanted to create a conflict in the Seven Kingdoms, a devastating war with Dothraki invading and pillaging + war between Lannisters and Starks. All of this would bring ruin to Westeros and then Aegon could invade and be presented as a liberator and saviour. But not all went as they wanted it to. Viserys died, Daenerys hatched dragons, war between Lannisters and Starks came quicker then they expected. So they altered their plan and wanted to join Aegon with Danny.

Edited by White26

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, White26 said:

They didn't want to put Viserys on the throne. They wanted to create a conflict in the Seven Kingdoms, a devastating war with Dothraki invading and pillaging + war between Lannisters and Starks. All of this would bring ruin to Westeros and then Aegon could invade and be presented as a liberator and saviour. But not all went as they wanted it to. Viserys died, Daenerys hatched dragons, war between Lannisters and Starks came quicker then they expected. So they altered their plan and wanted to join Aegon with Danny.

Ignoring the books and speaking strictly of the TV show.  What to you think Viserys was up to and why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, The Baelish Mockingbird said:

I'm not so sure about that. Varys didn't show any intent to betray King Aerys and seemingly wasn't plotting against him. I mean this can be retconned of course if George decides to reveal new information about him.

What? It was clear as day to me that Varys was filling Aerys's mind with rumors and whispers that mad the mad king even madder. Varys is a Blackfyre man in the books through and through.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Han Snow said:

What? It was clear as day to me that Varys was filling Aerys's mind with rumors and whispers that mad the mad king even madder. Varys is a Blackfyre man in the books through and through.

You can make a case for that, but it's premature to state is as fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing the double agent probably, remember he conspired to kill Dany later after Robert's order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Han Snow said:

What? It was clear as day to me that Varys was filling Aerys's mind with rumors and whispers that mad the mad king even madder. Varys is a Blackfyre man in the books through and through.

Could you provide me the sources which make you believe Varys was driving Aerys mad?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2019 at 2:55 PM, Lord Lannister said:

If you read the books, it touches more on this. The plot certainly gets more complicated, but we never specifically get a POV from Varys. So it largely is speculation as to why he does it.

yes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/24/2019 at 3:34 PM, Paul Ell said:

Ignoring the books and speaking strictly of the TV show.  What to you think Viserys was up to and why?

Viserys or Varys? Viserys wanted to regain throne we know that. Varys wants to put fAegon on the throne. Whether he is fake or not we don't know. He may be son of Rhaegar, random Lysene or Volantine boy or a Blackfyre. In last scenario he may be a son of Ilirio Mopatis and his wife who may be a Blackfyre. Varys himself may be a Blackfyre as well.

I am still wondering, if fAegon is a Blackfyre, then why all this masquarade, why they didn't show him as a Blackfyre and not invade. Why they want to give him faked legitimacy. Blackfyres have claim to the Iron Throne regardless.

All of this is unclear at the moment. But we know where did Martin find inspiration for this plotline. John I of France and Baglioni are historical counterpats to fAegon while Cola di Rienzo is of Ilirio Mopatis. In reality, Baglioni  claimed himself to be John I and was supported by Cola di Rienzo. This story was novelized by Maurice Druon in The Accursed Kings but there this was truly John I. As an infant John was swapped with Baglioni. John survived and was rised as Baglioni while real Baglioni was poisoned so it is the same like with fArgon who was supposedly swapped with "Pisswater prince" by Varys.  

Edited by White26

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, White26 said:

 Viserys or Varys? Viserys wanted to regain throne we know that. Varys wants to put fAegon on the throne. Whether he is fake or not we don't know. He may be son of Rhaegar, random Lysene or Volantine boy or a Blackfyre. In last scenario he may be a son of Ilirio Mopatis and his wife who may be a Blackfyre. Varys himself may be a Blackfyre as well.

 I am still wondering, if fAegon is a Blackfyre, then why all this masquarade, why they didn't show him as a Blackfyre and not invade. Why they want to give him faked legitimacy. Blackfyres have claim to the Iron Throne regardless.

All of this is unclear at the moment. But we know where did Martin find inspiration for this plotline. John I of France and Baglioni are historical counterpats to fAegon while Cola di Rienzo is of Ilirio Mopatis. In reality, Baglioni  claimed himself to be John I and was supported by Cola di Rienzo. This story was novelized by Maurice Druon in The Accursed Kings but there this was truly John I. As an infant John was swapped with Baglioni. John survived and was rised as Baglioni while real Baglioni was poisoned so it is the same like with fArgon who was supposedly swapped with "Pisswater prince" by Varys.  

That is the books. fAegon doesn't exist in the show. As for why masquerade, remember that Viserys and Daenerys were still alive, and both would have better claim to the throne than a Blackfyre.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

That is the books. fAegon doesn't exist in the show. As for why masquerade, remember that Viserys and Daenerys were still alive, and both would have better claim to the throne than a Blackfyre.

In the show Varys has no other motive than "for the Realm". This is the only answer, his character was cut off together with fAegon's arc. As in the books, it doesn't matter if Daenerys and Viserys had better claim since, it only matters if they receive support. But this may be a clue to hidding fAegon identity. With showing him as son of Rhaegar, they would make him rightful king with better claim than Viserys and Daenerys, although it is disputable since Aerys disinherited Aegon and Rhaenys in favour of Viserys shortly before his death. 

Yet with fAegon as son of Rhaegar, Varys and Iliro hope that they could get support of Dorne I suppose.

Edited by White26

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, White26 said:

 In the show Varys has no other motive than "for the Realm". This is the only answer, his character was cut off together with fAegon's arc. As in the books, it doesn't matter if Daenerys and Viserys had better claim since, it only matters if they receive support. But this may be a clue to hidding fAegon identity. With showing him as son of Rhaegar, they would make him rightful king with better claim than Viserys and Daenerys, although it is disputable since Aerys disinherited Aegon and Rhaenys in favour of Viserys shortly before his death. 

 Yet with fAegon as son of Rhaegar, Varys and Iliro hope that they could get support of Dorne I suppose.

Dorne, definitely, but wasn't Rhaegar also popular in general? So they may be aiming at gaining popular support overall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Dorne, definitely, but wasn't Rhaegar also popular in general? So they may be aiming at gaining popular support overall.

He was, before Roberts rebellion though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×