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Anthony Appleyard

Danaerys surviving?

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In the books that are yet to come, one course that I could like to see is: Jon Snow is shown to be a Targaryen. He meets Daenarys, and stays with her, whether or not he gets to ride on Drogon with her, or to ride in Rhaegal near her. He gradually talks her out of the more extreme of her policies and attitudes, and thus restores her to sanity, and both survive. They become the next king and his queen. Dragon-riding and -breeding is re-established, and used not so much as a major war weapon, but for routine patrolling along and around main roads to suppress banditry and keep the roads safe for legitimate travellers and life safer for isolated farms and villages.

 

Edited by Anthony Appleyard

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On 9/30/2019 at 12:47 PM, Anthony Appleyard said:

In the books that are yet to come, one course that I could like to see is: Jon Snow is shown to be a Targaryen. He meets Daenarys, and stays with her, whether or not he gets to ride on Drogon with her, or to ride in Rhaegal near her. He gradually talks her out of the more extreme of her policies and attitudes, and thus restores her to sanity, and both survive. They become the next king and his queen. Dragon-riding and -breeding is re-established, and used not so much as a major war weapon, but for routine patrolling along and around main roads to suppress banditry and keep the roads safe for legitimate travellers and life safer for isolated farms and villages.

 

I may be in the minority but I have seen Dany as the Mad King's daughter since at least AFFC. In my opinion. Rhaegar was the least crazed of the three children. Given that he would ruin his family and start an epic civil war to chase a book prophecy, one may infer that he is crazy. But I digress....

 

Mad Queen.

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"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

Daenerys IX, Game 68

The pronoun “he” above, of course, refers to Drogo, whom Daenerys was about to send off into the night lands. Will Drogo return?

Quentyn son of Prince Doran of House Martell, whose sigil is the sun, rose in the west when he left Dorne, and he set in the east when he was killed in Meereen. Our lovely dragon queen notes in Daenerys X, Dance 71, that the Dothraki Sea is going dry. When she sits among her persimmon trees and lemon trees atop the Great Pyramid of Meereen and looks upon the smaller pyramids, she feels as if she is “atop the highest mountain in the world,” thus comparing the pyramids to mountains. Since then, one such “mountain” has collapsed in ruins, and the dragons have turned two more into smoking lairs.

That leaves us with Daenerys’s womb quickening again, and her bearing a living child. Even if what Daenerys went through on her recent walk about was a miscarriage, that would not satisfy the elements above. A quickening happens when a mother-to-be can feel the fetus moving. However, since the other elements have been satisfied, and since this is a fantasy filled with prophecy and foreshadowing, I would think that Daenerys’s womb will quicken again, and she will bear a living child, and her son will sit the Iron Throne...

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When her son sat the Iron Throne, she would see that he had bloodriders of his own to protect him against treachery in his Kingsguard.

Daenerys IV, Game 36

Her son will be Aegon’s son...

Quote

Drogo's braid was black as midnight and heavy with scented oil, hung with tiny bells that rang softly as he moved. It swung well past his belt, below even his buttocks, the end of it brushing against the back of his thighs.

"You see how long it is?" Viserys said. "When Dothraki are defeated in combat, they cut off their braids in disgrace, so the world will know their shame. Khal Drogo has never lost a fight. He is Aegon the Dragonlord come again, and you will be his queen."

Daenerys I, Game 3

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The dragon has three heads. There are two men in the world who I can trust, if I can find them. I will not be alone then. We will be three against the world, like Aegon and his sisters.

Daenerys VI, Storm 71

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Five Aegons had ruled the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. There would have been a sixth, but the Usurper’s dogs had murdered her brother’s son when he was still a babe at the breast. If he had lived, I might have married him.

Daenerys I, Dance 2

Quote

"I told you, I know our little queen. Let her hear that her brother Rhaegar's murdered son is still alive, that this brave boy has raised the dragon standard of her forebears in Westeros once more, that he is fighting a desperate war to avenge his father and reclaim the Iron Throne for House Targaryen, hard-pressed on every side … and she will fly to your side as fast as wind and water can carry her. You are the last of her line, and this Mother of Dragons, this Breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer. The girl who drowned the slaver cities in blood rather than leave strangers to their chains can scarcely abandon her own brother's son in his hour of peril. And when she reaches Westeros, and meets you for the first time, you will meet as equals, man and woman, not queen and supplicant. How can she help but love you then, I ask you?"

Tyrion VI, Dance 22

The love won’t last, of course...

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"I will leave you." Varys rose. "I know how weary you must be. I only wished to welcome you, my lord, and tell you how very pleased I am by your arrival. We have dire need of you on the council. Have you seen the comet?"
 
"I'm short, not blind," Tyrion said. Out on the kingsroad, it had seemed to cover half the sky, outshining the crescent moon.
 
"In the streets, they call it the Red Messenger," Varys said. "They say it comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow." 

Tyrion I, Clash 3

Quote
Spoiler

It was then that pasty, pudgy Teora raised her eyes from the creamcakes on her plate.  "It is dragons."     

"Dragons?"  said her mother.  "Teora, don't be mad."

"I'm not.  They're coming."

"How could you possibly know that?" her sister asked, with a note of scorn in her voice.  "One of your little dreams?"

Teora gave a tiny nod, chin trembling.  "They were dancing.  In my dream.  And everywhere the dragons danced the people died."

 

Arianne I, Winds

And Daenerys will vanquish Aegon...

Quote

“The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third. I don't know what the middle head's supposed to do.”

The Ugly Little Girl, Dance 64

Daenerys was the first head. Aegon, red with rust, is revealed to be the second. Jon will be revealed to be the third. Although a dragon is still a dragon whether it is black or red, Aegon is the mummer’s dragon...

Quote

"What is a mummer's dragon, pray?"

"A cloth dragon on poles," Dany explained. "Mummers use them in their follies, to give the heroes something to fight."

Daenerys V, Clash 63

And Daenerys will slay the fraud...

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A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. ... mother of dragons, slayer of lies...

Daenerys IV, Clash 48

Their wee Targlet will live, but Daenerys won’t...

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... three fires must you light ... one for life and one for death and one to love ...

Daenerys IV, Clash 48

The last fire Daenerys will light will be the one that is lit to consume her lifeless body after she dies giving birth to her child, a fire to love.

Drogo will not return to Daenerys, but Daenerys will return to Drogo.

As to the three mounts she must ride, "one to bed and one dread and one to love," most of us suspect the first is her silver with Drogo to the grassy place beside a small stream, and that the second is Drogo’s namesake Drogon. The third mount will be the smoky stallion Daenerys will ride to join her sun-and-stars in the Night Lands.

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On 9/30/2019 at 12:47 PM, Anthony Appleyard said:

In the books that are yet to come, one course that I could like to see is: Jon Snow is shown to be a Targaryen. He meets Daenarys, and stays with her, whether or not he gets to ride on Drogon with her, or to ride in Rhaegal near her. He gradually talks her out of the more extreme of her policies and attitudes, and thus restores her to sanity, and both survive. They become the next king and his queen. Dragon-riding and -breeding is re-established, and used not so much as a major war weapon, but for routine patrolling along and around main roads to suppress banditry and keep the roads safe for legitimate travellers and life safer for isolated farms and villages.

 

Book Jon is very far from sane.  His behavior in the books is one of the most destructive out of any character.  Book Daenerys has been very reasonable.  Consider the difficult issue of ending slavery in Essos.  That can't be done without a lot of bloodshed because the slavers are not interested in morality but instead are interested in keeping power and status.  The slavers' resistance to positive change is causing misery. 

I would never trust Jon with a dragon.  Look at the damage he did at the wall with the little power that he had.  He took an institution that has stood for thousands of years and destroyed it to get his sister from her husband.  Jon would use a dragon to punish those families who have wronged the Starks.  That is unethical and will only cause more damage. 

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On 10/9/2019 at 9:14 PM, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Book Jon is very far from sane.  His behavior in the books is one of the most destructive out of any character.  Book Daenerys has been very reasonable.  Consider the difficult issue of ending slavery in Essos.  That can't be done without a lot of bloodshed because the slavers are not interested in morality but instead are interested in keeping power and status.  The slavers' resistance to positive change is causing misery. 

I would never trust Jon with a dragon.  Look at the damage he did at the wall with the little power that he had.  He took an institution that has stood for thousands of years and destroyed it to get his sister from her husband.  Jon would use a dragon to punish those families who have wronged the Starks.  That is unethical and will only cause more damage. 

While I do not disagree with your point on Daeny being reasonable, I very much disagree with your characterization of Jon. You present the NW as if it was thriving when Jon arrived at the wall when in fact it was barely hanging on and historically grossly undermanned. While Jon is naive, his decisions are almost always made for the greater good. Please explain the damage he has done at the wall. He is trying to bolster the NW while also sympathizing and trying to protect the wildlings as he sees the true threat to be the Others. Sure, he has ruffled some crow feathers but only to strengthen them long term. He creates a deal out of nothing with the IB to secure a loan for food that will help the NW last through the winter. He entertains and hosts Stannis without breaking NW tradition by not bending the knee even when he is offered to be legitimized as a Stark. He sends men to other castles to be manned to expand their presence. He incorporates the wildlings in the NW by having them sew and repair the wall and castles. He advises Stannis on how to win favor in the North by courting the mountain clans and sends Sam off to become a great Maester so the NW will have someone fill the large shoes of Maester Aemon. He also has a dire wolf and uses him responsibly. I'm just not seeing proof of your criticism. Jon with a dragon would be fine. There is no strong text to support that he would act irrational, unethical, or irresponsible with a dragon. Jon is very much sane and more Ned Stark (honorable and wise for his years) than any of the other legitimate Stark children. In regards to getting his "sister from her husband", all he did was send Mance and some spear wives to WF to rescue her. It's not like he sent an expedition of crows down south bearing the NW banner. He's being smart about it and I feel as if you are selectively omitting all the rational and good decisions that he has made at such a young age in such a short time. 

Edited by Lord Daedrunk

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16 hours ago, Lord Daedrunk said:

.... There is no strong text to support that he would act irrational, unethical, or irresponsible with a dragon. ...

There would be one snag with a dragon at the Wall :: the book Blood and Fire says that when Alysanne wife of King Jaehaerys I visited the Wall, whenever she tried to fly her dragon Silverwing north of the Wall, Silverwing refused, although Silverwing never before this had been known to refuse. If this is caused by magic and is general with all ridden dragons there, it may be part of the magic left there by old events when the first Men arrived.

 

Edited by Anthony Appleyard

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7 hours ago, Anthony Appleyard said:

There would be one snag with a dragon at the Wall :: the book Blood and Fire says that when Alysanne wife of King Jaehaerys I visited the Wall, whenever she tried to fly her dragon Silverwing north of the Wall, Silverwing refused, although Silverwing never before this had been known to refuse. If this is caused by magic and is general with all ridden dragons there, it may be part of the magic left there by old events when the first Men arrived.

 

Ahh yes, I do recall reading that as well. However, a dragon refusing to fly beyond the wall would hardly be considered an abuse of responsibility by the dragon rider. While odd behavior for an all-mighty dragon it is indeed, I don't see how that can be used against Jon in this hypothetical discussion about him possibly using it unethically. 

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