An interesting topic I found on Reddit about the villains of ASOIAF

[S. D]

15 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

The funny thing about it is that this Queen Cersei I is not wrong.

I wasn't there when Queen Cersei I was here but I still miss her

I also miss Winter Knight, Butterbumps, E-RO, Adelstein, James Arryn...

Now the forum only has boring people except for a select few

[Darth Sidious]

On 8/3/2020 at 3:03 AM, Targknight said:

Who are you to decide? Daenerys caused more problems than anything. Meereen has no other economy except the fighting pits and slavery. I don’t want to play devil’s advocate here. What can the Meereenese do?

They can fish.  

[GoldenGail3]

On 8/3/2020 at 7:55 PM, S. D said:

I wasn't there when Queen Cersei I was here but I still miss her

I also miss Winter Knight, Butterbumps, E-RO, Adelstein, James Arryn...

Now the forum only has boring people except for a select few

BSN (my old forum) is ten times as boring as this one is. 
But whatever we ain’t discussing forums were discussing a ASOIAF Lol.

[Thunder Bunny-3000]

On 7/27/2020 at 3:10 PM, boltons are sick said:

The reason why she did it in the first place was because she genuinely loved Jaime and was forced in an abusive marriage against her will. The reason why cheating on the king was considered treason in Meddieval ages was because back then the people were sexist and classist. Nobody should be executed for cheating on their spouse (espessially if the spouse in question also cheated on them and even RAPED them). She didn't choose Robert as her husband and he abused her and cheated on her as well. I agree that Cersei and Jaime's love is twisted because they are twins but if Cersei had slept with someone that she is not related to, it would have been considered treason again. The incest doesn't play any role in this. Choosing the biological father of your kids is considered a basic human right these days so as 21-century readers I don't think we are supposed to condemn Cersei for this.

And Cersei didn't want to start a war. She wanted to keep her affair secret. Meanwhile Ned wanted to expose her affair due to his own classist beliefs and start a war instead of taking her offer and making peace with her. I am not saying that Ned is a villain or that Cersei is a wonderful person. I am simply trying to point out that there is more complexity in these books than "Starks good, Lannisters bad".

Cercie is the dominant one of the twins. she doe not love Jaimie. Jaimie is the one that loves her but she sees Jaimie as what she should have been. she is full of penis envy. he is her  other half. she loved Joffery in the same way in that his appearance was like Jamie. 

she was not forced into an abusive marriage, Robert was not abusive. 

cucking the king is a crime. ie high treason.  and not because it is sexist or classist but because her role as Queen is to bear the dynastic offspring, nothing else. treason is punishable by death. Robert never cheated on Cercie. the pillar of power goes up, not down.

Cercie wanted power and to do so she was willing to start a war. how else would it go down after Ned's household is slaughtered and daughters taken captive. that does not speak peace

Ned wanted peace and the rightful heir Stannis placed on the throne. the thing is he knew war was coming and decided to spare the blood of children and in his act of mercy urged Cercie to flee.  Cercie openly admitted her treason to Ned, so it really is Cercie who reveals her secret willingly and openly admitting treason in the process. 

[butterweedstrover]

On 7/20/2020 at 3:41 PM, Frey family reunion said:

I will say this, after reading GRRM's Tuff Voyaging.  I came away with the thought that Varys might be one of GRRM's stealth protaganists.  While decidely non-heroic on the outside, and willing to commit unconsciounable actions, his ultimate goal is to fundamentally change a flawed, unjust, and opressive society.  

I found Varys as one of the most villainous characters in the entire series, but delusional enough to see himself as good. 

The nobility weren't enemies of the poor like the new landed gentry of the 15th century, they didn't practice usury or high taxation. Ned was honorable and yet Varys said he was against the common folk. 

And yet he himself undermined the Targaryen dynasty for his own ideals. Rhaegar was looking to replace his unstable father at Harrenhall yet Varys told Aerys guaranteeing a war. 

He used viserys to invade westeros with a horde of dothraki who rape and pillage to make young griff look like a savior. I think he did switch Aegon VI before the sack of KL, but he betrayed the true son for an imposter who would support his own bloodline (blackfyre). 

He has Ilyrio provide him with slaves with no tongues, and he kills Kevan before he could stabilize the realm. 

In ASOIAF tradition and family are not just a distraction from the welfare of the poor, they are the underpinnings of what provides security and spiritual joy to the common folk. Varys works at every turn to undermine that.

[Lee-Sensei]

On 7/28/2020 at 5:26 AM, boltons are sick said:

1) Robert wasn`t forced to marry Cersei against his will. He decided to marry her to ensure her father`s support and he could have divorced at any time but he didn`t because he didn`t want to lose Tywin`s support and gold. Meanwhile Cersei didn`t have much choice in the matter (even though you could argue that at first she was happy but that doesn`t change anything) and she couldn`t divorce.

2) The fact that Cersei and Jaime are twins is irrelevant to our discussion. Even if Cersei decided to sleep with someone else, this would still be considered treason by Westerosi laws and she would still face the danger of losing her life and the lives of her kids and lover. I don`t know why people feel the need to constantly point out the Cersei has an incestious relationship when discussing her marriage with Robert even though it is completely irrelevant to the subject. And I don`t think that anyone deserves to be executed for sleeping with their siblings even though I personally don`t approve of such relationships and find them disgusting.

3) Yes, you are right. Cersei tried to pass her bastards as Robert`s. However, you are forgetting the fact that if she admitted that those kids weren`t from her husband, she would be immediately imprisoned (and possibly tortured to tell the name of her lover) and then she would be executed along with her kids and Jaime. Her prime motivation to keep her kids` true parentage secret was not to gain access to Robert`s property but to protect her life and the lives of her family.

1) And Cersei wasn’t forced to marry Robert. She could have gotten on a ship with her gold and her jewels and left Westeros. Jaime probably would have gone wi5h her. She wanted the power and the status that came with being a Queen, without the responsibilities.

2) Cheating on the King is treason. She deliberately killed off his children and got pregnant by her brother to deny him an heir. That’s punishable by death.

3) And she would have had it coming. Paternity fraud is evil. If she really wanted to keep her kids safe, she wouldn’t have put them in that predicament by having bastards and passing them off as Roberts children.

[Bullrout]

On 7/27/2020 at 11:12 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

George is wrong if he is using Meereen to criticize Iraq and Vietnam.  Those three situations are very different and I would question Mr. Martin's knowledge of politics and world events if he is trying to connect the three.  U.S. invaded Irag on the premise that they had weapons of mass destruction and to remove Hussein.  The U. S. went to Vietnam because of colliding political beliefs.  Meereen is a war to free slaves.  I would consider the American Civil War as the closest analogy to Meereen.  

Dany is not obligated to bribe the Meereenese in order to turn them away from slavery.  There is nothing even a god can offer that will make the Ghis give up slavery.  The masters of the city have no right to hold people into slavery.  The slaves are not property.  Dany is not obligated to negotiate nor barter for the freedom of the slaves.  Freedom is their right.  She only has to tell the masters of the city to free their slaves or else.  

Agree